Cyclists and the law,is anyone else sick of them breaking it

mrcheez

Zipppy wrote: »

I'm a city walker runner cyclist motorcyclist and sometimes motorist...

I think the biggest issue people have with cyclists breaking the law (eg red light running, cycling on the path, cycling the wrong way up a one way..etc) is the arrogance that lots of cyclists undertake these activities with..
Yes when cycling I sometime break a red light or when motorbiking use a bus lane or when walking cross wherever I wish...but I undertake these activities knowing I'm in the wrong and accepting that if another road user has a problem with me doing this that I'm in the wrong...and acknowledge this fact...not shout abuse at them.
Too many, mainly cyclists, think that they can do whatever they wish and that other road users can f*ck off...two fingers and abuse given to pedestrians who object to having to jump out of their way on footpaths or abuse shouted at car drivers who beep at their red light running...
We all 'relax the rules' at time but please do it safely with consideration for all others...and yes I knwo pedestrians and motorists also abuse other road users when actually in the wrong but to be fair cyclists seem to have an 'attitude' towards being in the wro ng...not all of course but lots...

Just my take on this. If you are in a position where you are constantly getting close punishment passes, people overtaking you to pointlessly get ahead to the traffic lights faster, dealing with slippy road surfaces and never-ending potholes, the odd shouts and beeps, dealing with inclement weather, dealing with disappearing bike lanes (and subsequent close car passes after) etc etc

Is it any wonder why some of these people get a little agitated when cycling around?

I'm not saying it's good to be like this, but just explaining why *some* (not all) might not be on the road with nary a care in the world.

When I was in Amsterdam there was rarely a case where I saw a conflict betwixt vehicle and cyclist (although I saw a fair few conflicts between motorbikes and cyclists because motorbikes are inexplicably allowed to use the narrow cycle lanes), simply because there was good cycling infrastructure that separated the cyclist from traffic, but also there was a bit more sympathy for the cyclists because.. well.. the car users were cyclists too.

So yes some people may come across as "arrogant" and this will probably remain the case until there is clear separation between bikes and vehicles, or a general uptake in bikes.

stewygriffin

Chuchote wrote: »

YMMV… I see drivers whipping through red lights just after they change every day. I was in a friend's car and she did this - I wailed "Why? Why?" and she muttered, "These lights take ages!" I'd timed them. It's a five-way crossroads, and the full cycle of lights takes 2.5 minutes. Is someone's life worth waiting 2.5 minutes for?

Its not that crazy busy 5 way junction out at Blanchardstown Shopping Centre by any chance?
Timed them before myself, while sat on the R1. Just on 5 minutes for the lights to go green.

But 5 minutes is worth the wait...better to be late than dead.

Rory28

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Like most people they will commit crimes until they are punished for it.
And cyclists know that its unlikely they will be punished. If there are no police to see it then they are free. Cameras at intersections dont help because there are no reg plates. And even if police see them they usually dont do anything or they just give them a warning.

Saw a cop stop a cyclist a few weeks ago. The cyclist had filtered through a bunch of traffic and went straight through the junction on a red.
Had a motorcyclist done that then it would obviously be a ticket and points. Cyclist just got a "dont do that again".

I dont see why it should be so hard to require cyclists to put plates on their bikes. If you want to use your bike on a public road then it must be registered and identifiable by cameras and people and if under 18 parents are responsible for the childrens fines.
There are constant stories of cyclist leaving the scene of the accident because they know there is no way they can be traced.

Ridiculous. Why would he have to register a bike? if a kid asks for a bike off santa does it come with a vehicle registration form too?

I dont like the sound of that one bit. Its a bike for goodness sake.

bladespin

Rory28 wrote:

I dont like the sound of that one bit. Its a bike for goodness sake.

Just think of the revenue it could generate, pay for Irish water it would!

bladespin

WindomEarle wrote:

I'll take that as a yes, then - that it is illegal to take over half the pavement like that.

It's not you know

bladespin

mrcheez wrote:

Just my take on this

I hear that, nothing irks bikers more than other drivers pretending they're not there.

Where's the vid???

Danjamin1

JRant wrote: »

Speaking of terrifying, what is the deal with councils up and down the country putting those lovely shiny slippery metal manhole covers on the road? It's almost as if they want people on 2 wheels to fall on them or something.

I've only ever seen 1 of them that had a grip surface applied to them.

How on earth are they allowed get away with it?

I wiped out a couple years ago on one of these coming around from Leeson street on to Sussex Road on the way in to Donnybrook, nearly put myself under a few cars because of it. It was right in the middle of the lane, I didn't see it until it was too late.

On another note, the main thing that bothers me is other cyclists who insist on moving to the top of the queue & placing themselves in front of you only to proceed & cycle slower. I overtook the same person 4 times this morning because of this nonsense, didn't get to say it to them though. They eventually pulled away from me by cruising through reds, it seems they were only bothered about stopping at the larger junctions. Extremely frustrating though!!

mrcheez

bladespin wrote: »

Where's the vid???

The vid? Overwiped unfortunately (small memory card). I'll make another one as it happens on a daily basis (but the thread will probably be closed)

mrcheez

Danjamin1 wrote: »

On another note, the main thing that bothers me is other cyclists who insist on moving to the top of the queue & placing themselves in front of you only to proceed & cycle slower.

You do know the reason for this don't you?

Also the fact that many traffic lights have a section reserved for bicycles at the front should clue you in :rolleyes:

Danjamin1

mrcheez wrote: »

You do know the reason for this don't you?

Also the fact that many traffic lights have a section reserved for bicycles at the front should clue you in :rolleyes:

Yeah, I'm talking about when I'm on the bike myself!! It's really frustrating as I'm cycling faster than them but stuck behind after every light!

Chuchote

stewygriffin wrote: »

Its not that crazy busy 5 way junction out at Blanchardstown Shopping Centre by any chance?
Timed them before myself, while sat on the R1. Just on 5 minutes for the lights to go green.

But 5 minutes is worth the wait...better to be late than dead.

No, Kenilworth crossroads. I thought it was crazy slow myself till I timed it and realised that it's not that long after all.

mrcheez wrote: »

When I was in Amsterdam there was rarely a case where I saw a conflict betwixt vehicle and cyclist (although I saw a fair few conflicts between motorbikes and cyclists because motorbikes are inexplicably allowed to use the narrow cycle lanes)

Actually, I don't think motorbikes are allowed to use the cycle lanes in Amsterdam, though mopeds are, as far as I remember.

mrcheez

Chuchote wrote: »

No, Kenilworth crossroads. I thought it was crazy slow myself till I timed it and realised that it's not that long after all.



Actually, I don't think motorbikes are allowed to use the cycle lanes in Amsterdam, though mopeds are, as far as I remember.

ah yeah mopeds I mean... sure there's no difference between mopeds and motorbikes

*ducks*

stewygriffin

mrcheez wrote: »

The vid? Overwiped unfortunately (small memory card). I'll make another one as it happens on a daily basis (but the thread will probably be closed)

Ah sure you did.

And that "video still" you posted was either before 7am or after 7pm or on a Sunday,where that bus lane is open to all road users.

Dermot Illogical

mrcheez wrote: »

ah yeah mopeds I mean... sure there's no difference between mopeds and motorbikes

*ducks*

The damage you could do on a 650 Burgmann in those lanes

Chuchote

mrcheez wrote: »

ah yeah mopeds I mean... sure there's no difference between mopeds and motorbikes

*ducks*

There's a bit of a difference when a Vespa or a Harley are coming up behind you as you coast along with your kids on the back and your shopping on the front!

Only reason I know that mopeds are allowed is that there was a furious controversy, with cyclists saying they shouldn't be.

WindomEarle

Chuchote wrote: »

A sane society would have offstreet parking for all vehicles, and not allow storage of any vehicle on roads.

Any sane society would require the owners of those vehicles to provide for their own secure storage. Why should public funds and resources be provided to provide parking to some people?

jvan wrote: »

It's not illegal to park a motorbike on a footpath as long as it's not blocking it or the wheelchair/pushchair ramps.
In fact, motorbikes have been fined for parking in car park spaces so the footpath, beside a lamppost is often the only place to legally park.

Rules of the Road seems to disagree with you;

Even if you do not see a particular ‘no parking’ sign or yellow line on the road, you must not stop or park:
wholly or partly on a footpath, a grass margin, a cycle lane or track or a
median strip;

A 2009 thread in the Boards Motorcycling forum (thread ID 2055652735) also seems to disagree with you.

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Like most people they will commit crimes until they are punished for it.
And cyclists know that its unlikely they will be punished. If there are no police to see it then they are free. Cameras at intersections dont help because there are no reg plates. And even if police see them they usually dont do anything or they just give them a warning.

So what is your psychological interpretation of the reasoning why one or two or three or four motorists speed through the red lights at almost every change of lights?

Could it be that this fantastical registration system that you propose does pretty much nothing to stop people breaking red lights?

stewygriffin wrote: »

Please do tell me how does my BMW S1000rr Superbike parked in tight against a wall take over half of a 15 footwide pathway out at Portmarnock??

Because my maths must not be as good as yours.

2 of the gardai's finest were more than nice to me about my bike,where it was parked and the fact that i was taking photos of it with a lovely scenic background.

Half? Quarter? Third? Does it really matter? It's not your space to take. It is for people who are walking, or using a wheelchair or pushing a buggy.

The Gardai ignoring it is meaningless - if Gardai were to prosecute every crime they see on the road, they'd never get more than 100m from the station.

bladespin

WindomEarle wrote: »

Rules of the Road seems to disagree with you;

They can disagree with the law too, especially when parking laws take priority.

Chuchote

WindomEarle wrote: »

Any sane society would require the owners of those vehicles to provide for their own secure storage. Why should public funds and resources be provided to provide parking to some people?

Yes, outside their own homes, but I meant when they drive across the city and expect to find parking in the row of cars that takes up a third of most streets.

So what is your psychological interpretation of the reasoning why one or two or three or four motorists speed through the red lights at almost every change of lights?

Could it be that this fantastical registration system that you propose does pretty much nothing to stop people breaking red lights?

Fian

mrcheez wrote: »

Just my take on this. If you are in a position where you are constantly getting close punishment passes, people overtaking you to pointlessly get ahead to the traffic lights faster, dealing with slippy road surfaces and never-ending potholes, the odd shouts and beeps, dealing with inclement weather, dealing with disappearing bike lanes (and subsequent close car passes after) etc etc

Is it any wonder why some of these people get a little agitated when cycling around?

I'm not saying it's good to be like this, but just explaining why *some* (not all) might not be on the road with nary a care in the world.

When I was in Amsterdam there was rarely a case where I saw a conflict betwixt vehicle and cyclist (although I saw a fair few conflicts between motorbikes and cyclists because motorbikes are inexplicably allowed to use the narrow cycle lanes), simply because there was good cycling infrastructure that separated the cyclist from traffic, but also there was a bit more sympathy for the cyclists because.. well.. the car users were cyclists too.

So yes some people may come across as "arrogant" and this will probably remain the case until there is clear separation between bikes and vehicles, or a general uptake in bikes.

The only one of these which really riles me up is the punishment passes. They send me into a rage and cause me to get into pointless confrontations with the driver who did it. If I catch up with them at lights I tend to shout and roar and if I don't get better at controlling myself I will end up in a fight over it sooner or later. Not easy to control your anger when someone has put your life in danger because they want to "teach you a lesson" or because they don't have the patience to wait until it is safe to overtake though. And maybe these confrontations aren't entirely pointless because it might make them think twice the next time they consider doing it.

That and sometimes I get very cranky at the end of a long cycle but that is down to my own low blood sugar levels/hunger rather than anyone else's fault. So to my shame i have gotten into a shouting match with a car driver who beeped at me for using the bus lane rather than a crappy/dangerous offroad cycle lane when I was arriving home after a 80-100k cycle. I snapped, pulled in front of his car at lights and blocked him from continuing on and was honestly ready to get into a fist fight with him. A bit like that snickers add, I am not myself with very low blood sugar levels. My bad and I would apologise to him now if I could, but it only happened once.

However in general rain or shine I tend to be in a good mood when I am on the bike. Especially on my commute when it seems to me it is the car drivers stuck in traffic who are much more likely to be frustrated and irritable. I am usually cycling along in a good mood and will generally respond to an irritated beep from a driver with a smile and a wave. Actually especially in the rain tbh, I quite like cycling along in the rain, much better than being stuck in the ridiculous traffic jams we seem to generate in Dublin as soon as a few drops of water hit the streets.

WindomEarle

bladespin wrote: »

They can disagree with the law too, especially when parking laws take priority.

I'm not sure I get your point. Are you suggesting that there are parking laws in place that allow parking on pavements? If so, what particular laws are you referring to?

stewygriffin

Well I just about survived the daily lunchtime Kamikaze run in my car.

School kids comming at me from all angles accross and down the wrong side of the road.:eek:

One of them clipped off me wing mirror while wheelieing down the road against the flow of traffic.

"sorry mister" is what i got shouted at me.:pac::p:D

Chuchote

WindomEarle wrote: »

I'm not sure I get your point. Are you suggesting that there are parking laws in place that allow parking on pavements? If so, what particular laws are you referring to?

Actually, parking on pavements costs the city a fortune, or would if the pavements were ever repaired.

stewygriffin

Chuchote wrote: »

Actually, parking on pavements costs the city a fortune, or would if the pavements were ever repaired.

Cant remember the last time I saw a corpo worker out sweeping the pathways down with his brush and large wheelbarrow.:pac:

prunudo

Chuchote wrote: »

Actually, parking on pavements costs the city a fortune, or would if the pavements were ever repaired.

I very much doubt parking a motorbike on the pavement (while not causing an obstruction) costs the city a fortune.

stewygriffin

Chuchote wrote: »

Actually, parking on pavements costs the city a fortune, or would if the pavements were ever repaired.

I think you might find that large trees cause more structural and financial damage to Dublin cities pavements and county councils pockets than motorbikes do.;):p

iLikeWaffles

Yep and I'm a cyclist!

stewygriffin

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Yep and I'm a cyclist!

.....get me outta here.........:p

mrcheez

stewygriffin wrote: »

Well I just about survived the daily lunchtime Kamikaze run in my car.

School kids comming at me from all angles accross and down the wrong side of the road.:eek:

One of them clipped off me wing mirror while wheelieing down the road against the flow of traffic.

"sorry mister" is what i got shouted at me.:pac::p:D

Sure you did. Got a video to prove it?


:rolleyes:

stewygriffin

mrcheez wrote: »

Sure you did. Got a video to prove it?


:rolleyes:

Must be a shame to have your bubble completely burst and your thread locked so soon.:P

I was too busy driving and watching out for other road users.:)

mrcheez

stewygriffin wrote: »

Must be a shame to have your bubble completely burst and your thread locked so soon.:P

It actually worked out perfectly. I fully expected it to be locked but this one left open, in essence proving my point