Landlord selling house, what's my rights?

davo2001

Hi,

We got a letter in the post yesterday saying the landlord intends to put the house we are renting on the market in January. We are living in a nice estate and houses that have been put on the market recently have been sale agreed within days / weeks.

We have been living in the house for nearly 7 years, good tenants and always paid on time obviously, we aren't really happy with the amount of notice we have been given (2 months).

Do we have any right to constest this so do we just have to suck it up. Ideally we would like another couple of months to find somewhere suitable.

punisher5112

Start looking. The ll can sell once you are not locked into a binding lease.

Unless stated in the lease of course.

Look up threshold for advice and time but you have being given in writing

Ms Doubtfire1

do you have a fixed term lease and if yes what term?

davo2001

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

do you have a fixed term lease and if yes what term?

We had signed a new lease in April 2015 but it was only for a year

Cheshire Cat

He has to give you more than 2 months notice. As you are there 6 years but less than 7, he has to give you 24 weeks (168 days) notice.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

He is entitled to sell the house, but you are entitled to the legal notice period.

davo2001

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

He has to give you more than 2 months notice. As you are there 6 years but less than 7, he has to give you 24 weeks (168 days) notice.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

He is entitled to sell the house, but you are entitled to the legal notice period.

Thanks, does the notice period on the article apply if the LL intends to sell though?

Ms Doubtfire1

ah...just re-thinking. you are under part 4, but even under part 4 if LL intent to sell you have to vacate-but there are certain things the LL must provide
Citizen info:
How easily your landlord can end your tenancy depends on the type of tenancy you have and how long you have been in the accommodation. Your landlord must always give you valid written notice when asking you to leave - see 'Reasons and notice of termination' and 'Notice periods' below.

If you have a fixed-term tenancy, the landlord cannot normally end the tenancy unless you are in breach of your obligations – read more on the RTB's website.

After the first 6 months you acquire rights to security of tenure, even if you have a fixed-term tenancy (of 1 year, for example).

so you are in your third year of part 4 tenancy.
Term is 84 days. (almost 3 month)
Selling

The landlord can end your tenancy if they intend to sell within 3 months. They must provide a signed statutory declaration that this is the case. Failure to adhere to either terms makes the termination invalid, if not to say illegal. get in touch with the tenancy board

seamus

My understanding is that your part 4 security runs irrespective of the fixed-term. So if the landlord intends on ending the tenancy at the end of the fixed term lease, he is still required to provide the statutory minimum notice, which in your case would be 24 weeks.

seamus

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

so you are in your third year of part 4 tenancy.
Term is 84 days. (almost 3 month)

The rules changed last year so that the clock didn't "reset" at the end of a 4-year cycle. Someone who's been in the property between 6-7 years is now entitled to 168 days (24 weeks) notice.

pc7

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

He has to give you more than 2 months notice. As you are there 6 years but less than 7, he has to give you 24 weeks (168 days) notice.
.

Is that new, I always thought the part 4 tenancy just restarted so that they would be there over 2 less than 3 so 56 days. good to know.

Cheshire Cat

davo2001 wrote: »

Thanks, does the notice period on the article apply if the LL intends to sell though?

It does. Selling is one of the few reasons your LL can terminate a Part IV lease, but he has to stick to the rules.

Ms Doubtfire1

seamus wrote: »

The rules changed last year so that the clock didn't "reset" at the end of a 4-year cycle. Someone who's been in the property between 6-7 years is now entitled to 168 days (24 weeks) notice.

wow-didn't know that? have you a link to the appropriate legal announcement?

pc7

seamus wrote: »

The rules changed last year so that the clock didn't "reset" at the end of a 4-year cycle. Someone who's been in the property between 6-7 years is now entitled to 168 days (24 weeks) notice.

Our posts crossed, wow so basically now a landlord has no right to end any tenancy without the main reasons (eg selling, refurbishment, needing it, bad behavior). Really feel the notice is way too excessive.

Cheshire Cat

pc7 wrote: »

Is that new, I always thought the part 4 tenancy just restarted so that they would be there over 2 less than 3 so 56 days. good to know.

Newish. The amended Residential Tenancy Act came into effect in December 2015.

pc7

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

Newish. The amended Residential Tenancy Act came into effect in December 2015.

Don't know how I missed the lack of a reset button on the P4 side, I suppose not many tenancies go over 4 years. Any I've had that have been long term they've decided to leave rather than me asking.

seamus

pc7 wrote: »

Our posts crossed, wow so basically now a landlord has no right to end any tenancy without the main reasons (eg selling, refurbishment, needing it, bad behavior). Really feel the notice is way too excessive.

At the end of a 4-year cycle, a landlord still has the 6-month window where he can terminate without reason.

Tbh, at the end of the day security of tenure for the resident trumps the landlord's desire to do whatever.

The reason our rental market is such a mess is because renters have never traditionally had any reason to feel like a property is theirs. It's always hung over a renter's head that they could be flat-hunting again within a couple of weeks. A landlord being able to give someone 3 months' notice to vacate a property they'd lived in for six years was grossly unfair, so at least it's going someway towards rectifying that.

For the landlords' part they can still avail of shorter notice periods for anti-social behaviour and non-payment of rent, so it's not completely stacked against them.

Legal enforcement and due process is still a big problem for both sides though.

davo2001

Sorry lads, a bit confused now. So does he have to give us 24 weeks notice?!

Ms Doubtfire1

I'm confused too. just looked into the act but can't find anything a layman can understand

pc7

davo2001 wrote: »

Sorry lads, a bit confused now. So does he have to give us 24 weeks notice?!

Yeah looks like you are covered by the changes last year that other poster linked. I'd notify your landlord by phone and writing so you have a record for yourself. Hope you find somewhere new that's suitable.

davo2001

pc7 wrote: »

Yeah looks like you are covered by the changes last year that other poster linked. I'd notify your landlord by phone and writing so you have a record for yourself. Hope you find somewhere new that's suitable.

Thanks, so do I. I can understand that the LL wants to sell as property prices have increased considerably but proper notice is a must and giving us 2 months after nearly 7 years (especially coming upto xmas) kind of leaves us with our back against the wall.

Ms Doubtfire1

davo2001 wrote: »

Thanks, so do I. I can understand that the LL wants to sell as property prices have increased considerably but proper notice is a must.

make sure you can track everything and have proof of everything.

Orion

davo2001 wrote: »

Sorry lads, a bit confused now. So does he have to give us 24 weeks notice?!

Yes he does. I think the landlord is mixing up his rights. He can terminate the tenancy if he plans to sell within 3 months of the tenancy ending - not within 3 months of giving notice. He still has to give you the mandatory notice period.

Cunning Stunt

Hope you get the notice period you deserve OP. It sucks to have to move out of a nice area after 6 years there.
I also hope the landlord is not pulling a fast one on you. It would be interesting to see if he actually will sell and not just put it back on the rental market for a far bigger rental price, given the current rental property 'bubble'.

davo2001

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

Hope you get the notice period you deserve OP. It sucks to have to move out of a nice area after 6 years there.
I also hope the landlord is not pulling a fast one on you. It would be interesting to see if he actually will sell and not just put it back on the rental market for a far bigger rental price, given the current rental property 'bubble'.

This had occured to me also, I'll be looking for proof that he is selling once it "goes on the market". Just goes to show that renting in Ireland is still a mugs game.

pc7

davo2001 wrote: »

Just goes to show that renting in Ireland is still a mugs game.

Honestly as a Landlord it isn't all that sweet sometimes either! Its a dysfunctional system all round. Only winners I see are the really big boy vulture fund types.

Gumbo

davo2001 wrote: »

Sorry lads, a bit confused now. So does he have to give us 24 weeks notice?!

I think the 24 weeks apply to you. It the letter may be considered notice and the 24 weeks starts now. Most sales take a couple of months to complete so it could time well with a sale and your notice.

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

Hope you get the notice period you deserve OP. It sucks to have to move out of a nice area after 6 years there.
I also hope the landlord is not pulling a fast one on you. It would be interesting to see if he actually will sell and not just put it back on the rental market for a far bigger rental price, given the current rental property 'bubble'.

It's worth noting that most decent LL's will not risk this with a long term good tenant for the sake of a few hundred a month extra that gets eaten by tax anyway. One months lost rent with a new tenant means that the extra your charging is lost for that year.

Maybe the OP can confirm if they are paying market rent, or in and around it.

davo2001

kceire wrote: »

Maybe the OP can confirm if they are paying market rent, or in and around it.

Below market rent, he had tried to increase it 3 months ago but I informed him that the last increase was only 12 months previously.

There is a mid terrace house 5 doors up going for €400 pm more than we are paying for an end of terrace house.

dbagman

davo2001 wrote:

We have been living in the house for nearly 7 years, good tenants and always paid on time obviously, we aren't really happy with the amount of notice we have been given (2 months).

To be fair he's only planning to put it on the market in 2 months. It will likely involve at least 2/3 weeks of bidding and viewings before going sale agreed. Even then a straight sale will probs take 2 months minimum. Unlikely any potential new buyer will be in position to collect keys for 5 months all going smoothly. You don't have to be out in 2 months.

Carlos Orange

pc7 wrote: »

Only winners I see are the really big boy vulture fund types.

A big chunk of rent goes to the revenue doesn't it? Seems like they (we?) win too.

Cunning Stunt

davo2001 wrote: »

kceire wrote: »

Maybe the OP can confirm if they are paying market rent, or in and around it.

Below market rent, he had tried to increase it 3 months ago but I informed him that the last increase was only 12 months previously.

There is a mid terrace house 5 doors up going for 400 pm more than we are paying for an end of terrace house.

This is the issue that many tenants could now be facing. My sister is also a long term renter and the rents for other houses around her have now gone up to twice what she is currently paying. She is almost expecting her landlord to knock on her door one of these days and say it's up 'for sale'. Landlords can't make this kind of increase on current tenants. They would have to get them out and start a new rental contract with a new rate.

pc7

psinno wrote: »

A big chunk of rent goes to the revenue doesn't it? Seems like they (we?) win too.

As the vulture funds are businesses I would think they can write a lot off, moreso than a landlord with 1 -4 properties say. But its not something I'm up on so can't really comment.