British Cycling and Sky

CramCycle

Have off the ball even mentioned the phenomenal performance put in by our track riders over the last week? It is such a shame for the sport that often it only gets picked up with a controversy.

Russman

dermabrasion wrote: »

The n-acetylcisteine (NAC) should be a PED on WADA list, as the data is there.

I don't want to threadjack, and apologies if this is in the wrong thread or needs its own one (hardly worth it), but in layman's terms, can someone tell me how a substance gets on or off the banned list ? Or how are things like that decided ?
Where is the line drawn for something that, say, was banned 5 years ago but not now, or vice versa ? Or how a given amount of a substance is ok, but too much of it is banned ?

pelevin

dermabrasion wrote: »

Bleak. The whole lot of it. My take is that they didn't break the rules, but they seriously and knowingly bent them.
The n-acetylcisteine (NAC) should be a PED on WADA list, as the data is there. (speculation spoiler alert)I suspect the whole jiffy bag nasal formulation is a cover for a larger perhaps dose of NAC. If Wiggo's blood was (retrospectively) tested positive for NAC, they'd have a cover story for his blocked nose.
But, this is what bugs me. Cycling was the lead story on Off-the-ball last night only because of this. Not because of Sam, Dan, Nico, Ryan or any of our elite athletes. In the grand scheme of cheating in sport, this is small beer. But, it is also low hanging fruit (sorry for mixed metaphors). Who taken into perspective of some of the recent news from athletics, Russia and so on. Very small beer.
Now we're navel gazing and explaining it to non-cyclists about the sport being rotten, when in reality we have moved from the premier division to the Division 2 in terms of cheating.
But I'm biased.

Fair enough points regarding the wider world of sport & doping but personally I'm not all that interested in other sports all that much, and I'm not going to worry too much about others' blinkered attitudes to cycling. It's nothing I've any control over & even if cyclists were going up Alpe d'Huez connected intravenously to elephants in team lorries driving alongside, I'd still probably view it as less corrupt in terms of pure sport than something like modern professional soccer - not that I'd be watching!

Agree that it's a shame though cycling doesn't get enough positive coverage. A disgrace a few years ago for example Dan Martin wasn't even in the top 10 of Irish Sportsperson of the Year (or whatever it's called), the year he won Liege Baston Liege & a great stage of TdF.

So anyway, I think this is in terms of cycling justifiably a big story. To add my guess would not coincide with yours that here they didn't break any rules.

Esroh

CramCycle wrote: »

Have off the ball even mentioned the phenomenal performance put in by our track riders over the last week? It is such a shame for the sport that often it only gets picked up with a controversy.

Off the Ball have no interest in sports where there is no profit to betting companies.

Slightly off topic but they Treat Non-Racing Equestrian Sport the same. Irish Showjumping have more Top 100 World Ranked Riders than any other country with 12 . They have results every weekend but they are ignored.
Any story with a whiff of scandle is covered.

RayCun

Esroh wrote: »

Off the Ball have no interest in sports where there is no profit to betting companies.

I think it would be more accurate to say their interest in sports is directly related to the audience figures for that sport. If people watch something on tv, maybe those same people will listen to a podcast about it.

(How much time do they spend on greyhound racing? Or horse racing?)

CramCycle

RayCun wrote: »

(How much time do they spend on greyhound racing? Or horse racing?)

They certainly mention greyhound racing in passing but only in a, it is on here or have you ever been, casual way. Horse racing gets its own slot though, with alot of talk on the bets, not sure which night they cover it.

ThisRegard

Esroh wrote: »

Off the Ball have no interest in sports where there is no profit to betting companies.

Not sure where that's coming from but they do cover cycling.

Harrybelafonte

CramCycle wrote: »

Have off the ball even mentioned the phenomenal performance put in by our track riders over the last week? It is such a shame for the sport that often it only gets picked up with a controversy.

This site to my knowledge never discussed the medals won by the Irish team over the last few weeks so I'm not surprised a radio show which caters to the general public would feel any need to.

In saying that the pattern of covering only cycling scandals is clear, but again, my experience of Joe Public is that that's their only interest in the sport.

Weepsie

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

This site to my knowledge never discussed the medals won by the Irish team over the last few weeks so I'm not surprised a radio show which caters to the general public would feel any need to.

In saying that the pattern of covering only cycling scandals is clear, but again, my experience of Joe Public is that that's their only interest in the sport.

There's barely been a mention here either. Maybe a dedicated Track cycling thread should happen in light of the lads winning in Colombia and LA?

Beasty

Weepsie wrote: »

There's barely been a mention here either. Maybe a dedicated Track cycling thread should happen in light of the lads winning in Colombia and LA?

Yep. I've been out if the loop the past couple of weeks only just catching up with the track events you mention. Usually I start a thread and generally talk to myself a bit of the time. Shame there was no one else prepared to start a thread as I'm sure a lot of posters would have become interested given the success the team did have.

Harrybelafonte

I deliberately did not start a thread. I know you usually do Beasty but I wanted to see if it went beyond your efforts and gauge the genuine interest for track cycling. Considering the stories were skipped over for other more controversial stories from sticky a bottle which garnered more, much more, attention, I think the answer is clear.

Back on topic, I'm waiting for the controversy to enter the track sphere, considering Varnish documents were withheld (?) and Wiggins' success there.

RobFowl

I feel a bit embarrassed I didn't start a thread when I say no one else had.
The results in the recent track world cup were simply astounding.
Really pleased to see Felix English in particular win an overdue medal too after a good few close calls.

pelevin

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I deliberately did not start a thread. I know you usually do Beasty but I wanted to see if it went beyond your efforts and gauge the genuine interest for track cycling. Considering the stories were skipped over for other more controversial stories from sticky a bottle which garnered more, much more, attention, I think the answer is clear.

Even on big road race days, if one of the usual suspects don't start a race thread, there's a good chance noone. I might then jump in & title it for example, Giro Stage 5, the write-up being something like "It's on now" , and people start posting on it. I think just for whatever reasons many are reluctant to simply start a thread - whatever the psychological complexities as to why. I don't think the answer need be necessarily clear at all as to what the lack of a thread signifies.

Maybe next time, deliberately start a thread!

fishfoodie

RobFowl wrote: »

In fact this will not end well for many of the protagonists ..

Darth Brailsford will try to brazen it out by deflecting and pinning the blame on others, Sky will not renew sponsorship even if they don't pull out early. He will struggle to get new sponsor ship and the team will finish. I can't see any sporting body in the UK rushing to employ him anytime soon.

Brian Cookson has so far kept quiet, he was BC president during this whole period. He will either have to claim he didn't know what was going on and appear clueless, or that he did but allowed it anyway and appear unethical.

The riders at Sky will all have to find new teams.

Eventually Chris Froome will come under scrutiny and even if nothing comes of it will always have this shadow hanging over him.

I think one of the comments from UKAD hasn't really gotten the focus it deserves yet; probably because of the sheer number of revelations yesterday.

In every Press release Sky & BC have been stressing how much they've been co-operating with UKAD to help them in their investigations. But UKAD were unequivocal in stating that they weren't getting the level of co-operation that they needed.

Now BC are in receipt of significant funds for the British Tax Payer, & Sky, as we all know walk on water. I can see BC's funding getting withdrawn unless they start playing ball, & as we've seen, BC is basically just an extension of Sky

terrydel

pelevin wrote: »

Fair enough points regarding the wider world of sport & doping but personally I'm not all that interested in other sports all that much, and I'm not going to worry too much about others' blinkered attitudes to cycling. It's nothing I've any control over & even if cyclists were going up Alpe d'Huez connected intravenously to elephants in team lorries driving alongside, I'd still probably view it as less corrupt in terms of pure sport than something like modern professional soccer - not that I'd be watching!

Agree that it's a shame though cycling doesn't get enough positive coverage. A disgrace a few years ago for example Dan Martin wasn't even in the top 10 of Irish Sportsperson of the Year (or whatever it's called), the year he won Liege Baston Liege & a great stage of TdF.

So anyway, I think this is in terms of cycling justifiably a big story. To add my guess would not coincide with yours that here they didn't break any rules.

As usual soccer always gets mentioned, fact is that practically everyone is cheating in cycling, until thats shown to be the case in soccer well it rightly deserves to be seen in a different light. Im not saying its clean or anything, but there has to be an element of innocent until proven guilty. Cycling has been shown up to be absolutely rotten right down to its very dna. I love the pursuit of cycling, and enjoying following the bigger races, but Ive no interest in any team or rider, as they are all pulling the wool over our eyes.
Soccer isnt perfect, but it is not anywhere near as rotten as cycling in terms of ped's and the athletes themselves cheating, and if you disagree, kindly show some proof.

pelevin

terrydel wrote: »

As usual soccer always gets mentioned, fact is that practically everyone is cheating in cycling, until thats shown to be the case in soccer well it rightly deserves to be seen in a different light. Im not saying its clean or anything, but there has to be an element of innocent until proven guilty. Cycling has been shown up to be absolutely rotten right down to its very dna. I love the pursuit of cycling, and enjoying following the bigger races, but Ive no interest in any team or rider, as they are all pulling the wool over our eyes.
Soccer isnt perfect, but it is not anywhere near as rotten as cycling in terms of ped's and the athletes themselves cheating, and if you disagree, kindly show some proof.

Even if noone in the history of soccer ever doped, I find it utterly repugnant on on the money side of things. Just capitalism pushed towards its obnoxious conclusions of power ever more centralised in the hands of ever fewer. Clubs full of players with f all connection to the area they supposedly represent. Billionaires from wahtever countries take their money from their home nation & come and stroke their fragile yet enormous egos by buying football clubs in England. Financial meltdowns whilst footballers playing for hundreds of thousands every week! What a world.

The all-consuming mono-culture of football shoved in everyone's face also - how even if trying to avoid it, it's pretty difficult. It's very easy to avoid cycling if uninterested! Soccer should be my first sporting love, the sport I'm personally best at & loved from an early age. I f....g detest it now. Repugnant sporting f......g fascism!!!! Calm down, calm down . . .

Now see what you've done to me.

Doc07

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Freeman is a medical doctor; he risks career-ending sanctions if he has been behaving unethically, this was already stated by Sapstead in the meetings yesterday, this is way, way above any sanction or loss-of-face that might come his way from the world of cycling. If he is lying low now, it is likely to be on the basis that he trusts Brailsford/TS/BC to absolve him of blame by finding some other solution. If they fail to do so, I'd fully expect him to surface in due course and spill the beans - whatever they contain - and throw the others under the bus if needs be. He has a lot more at stake than almost, if not everybody, else.

I would be amazed if he faces any sanction. Even if guilty, it's small beer for the GMC. The clown of an Irish Doctor (who embarisingly went to my Alma Mater) who boasted about giving PEDs to elite athletes last year and gave intravenous feed to a cancer patient in a London Hotel got off with a light slap on the wrist.

I'm repeating myself here from previous threads but why don't they(UKAD, MP inquiry, journalists) ask Brad and Dave B and the doctors 'why did you treat Brad's allergies with the most famous drug of abuse in cycling ie Kenacort?'

ThisRegard

terrydel wrote: »

, and if you disagree, kindly show some proof.

If only a certain judge would release certain documents from a certain doctor who worked with certain soccer clubs.

Harrybelafonte

pelevin wrote: »

Maybe next time, deliberately start a thread!

No thanks

pelevin

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

No thanks

It's not that hard!

TheBlaaMan

To be expected, I suppose ....

"BBC Sport editor Dan Roan and BBC Sport News Correspondent Richard Conway tried to get a comment from Wiggins at his home. In response Wiggins told the journalists that they were on private property and threatened to call the police."



https://twitter.com/danroan/status/837250286502674432

Harrybelafonte

pelevin wrote: »

It's not that hard!

You're missing the point.

What's the current theory regarding the missing Varnish data?

pelevin

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

You're missing the point.

I already answered your point as to why not start a thread. Fair enough about your own feeling - I'm not trying to pressurise anyone but personally I feel it better not to bother wondering about this or that implications & just start a thread!

pelevin

ThisRegard wrote: »

If only a certain judge would release certain documents from a certain doctor who worked with certain soccer clubs.

This is obviously wandering well off point but am I right that Juventus were perhaps the most successful team of roughly the mid 90s, were caught having a definite doping 'culture', & for how big a story it should have been, the media actually did far from what might have been expected with the story.

ThisRegard

Absolutely, a couple of Spanish clubs have been implicated but the story never got the traction it would had it been a rugby club, cyclist (never mind a whole team) or an athlete.

CramCycle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

This site to my knowledge never discussed the medals won by the Irish team over the last few weeks so I'm not surprised a radio show which caters to the general public would feel any need to.

In saying that the pattern of covering only cycling scandals is clear, but again, my experience of Joe Public is that that's their only interest in the sport.

Weepsie wrote: »

There's barely been a mention here either. Maybe a dedicated Track cycling thread should happen in light of the lads winning in Colombia and LA?

I was following it as closely as I could. Also not just the lads doing well. Work has been busy so most of my time on here has been reading rather than posting. I was surprised at the lack of a thread but didn't find time to write one myself.

A bit disgusted with the lack of media coverage in general.

dermabrasion

not to dissuade from the OP, but soccer is rife with cheating. DNA was mentioned above but for soccer the cheating gene is expressed on our screens every bloody time you turn on the TV. From the diving and exaggerated injury to the idea that we are all supposed to swallow that Qatar is a good idea for the World Cup? C'mon?
The cheating you see in pro-soccer makes it unwatchable for me. Its completely normalised cheating.

TheBlaaMan

terrydel wrote: »

As usual soccer always gets mentioned, fact is that practically everyone is cheating in cycling, until thats shown to be the case in soccer well it rightly deserves to be seen in a different light. Im not saying its clean or anything, but there has to be an element of innocent until proven guilty. Cycling has been shown up to be absolutely rotten right down to its very dna. I love the pursuit of cycling, and enjoying following the bigger races, but Ive no interest in any team or rider, as they are all pulling the wool over our eyes.
Soccer isnt perfect, but it is not anywhere near as rotten as cycling in terms of ped's and the athletes themselves cheating, and if you disagree, kindly show some proof.

Like others, I don't watch soccer anymore, as it's rife with cheating on a level where institutional acceptance means a blind eye is turned to behaviours that wouldn't be tolerated in many other sports. That's what obscene levels of money has caused.

How about this for a complete joke:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0216/853210-city-hit-with-fine-for-anti-doping-rules-breach/

"City were charged after failing to comply with this requirement three times in the space of 12 months"

While I know WADA don't deal with club infringements, a 35k fine isn't even a slap on the wrist in the context of the money in the sport and the message from the FA is very much a case of trivialising a serious problem that will be swept under the carpet, again.

Kaisr Sose

What has soccer got to do with with controversy in British Cycling?

RobFowl

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

What has soccer got to do with with controversy in British Cycling?

It the usual deflection when confronted with cheating in our sport.
What others do has not bearing at all on what the rules are and what we should be doing.
Talking about soccer, rugby etc is simply a way of trying to excuse or minimise the truth and extent of doping and cheating as well as unethical behaviour in our sport.
Sky is a morally dubious team, they lied and continue to about the jiffy bag (different stories still from different people in the team). They at best are pushing the rules to the limit of the letter and ignoring the spirit.
Just because other teams/sport do the same if not worse does not make it ok......