The Walking Dead | Season 7 | Episode 1 | The Day Will Come [AMC] [SPOILERS]

Scraggs

Good episode overall, I managed to avoid spoilers and I enjoyed the suspense even if it was a bit bloated. I'm not shocked at who died but have to say I was suprised there was a second kill. I genuinely thought the episode was going to descend into a montage of Abes life mixed with Rick being broken by Negan so I liked that. I assume next week will be a slow character building/Maggie has the baby so there's hope for humanity type episode which I'm fine with tbh.

How many people were left behind in Alexandria? There'll be some craic when the banter bus returns. I hope there's a psychiatrist/counsellor to deal with the inevitable PTSD.

AllGunsBlazing

Personally, I found the overt nature of the death scenes to be bordering on the pornographic. It didn't shock me so much as it had me rolling my eyes. That being said whereas the introduction of Negan was what caused me to bail on the comic book the live action equivalent is shaping up to be a great addition. Thanks in full to Jeffrey Dean Morgan who is going to steal this show from the established cast imo.

Mellor

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Firstly, they killed off one of the most interesting characters in the whole thing. Abraham in the show vs Abraham in the comics is so different. I was always indifferent to Abraham in the comics but I loved him in the show. He was absolutely amazing, Michael was an amazing actor and he was so interesting, they could have done so much with him. But no, lets just kill him off when he starts to get good, especially when there are so many other sh1tty characters there! Sure tis grand!

I haven't read the comics, but sounds like you have. Wasn't Abraham already dead at this point in the comics?
It's a little odd to complain that they killed him, and that the comics are better. When the comics killed him too.

Had they just rolled the two deaths out in order, a few episodes apart, then it's all predictable as per the comics. By sacrificing the lesbian doctor previously, and moving Abe's death to the finale, they create a misdirection that hides Glenn's death a little.

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Apparently they decided on the would be victims two years ago!

The victims in the last few episodes were as per the comics I believe.
Any comic readers able to confirm?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Very silly and unbelievable that Rick would make threats after just seeing his friends get killed in front of him and with his son nearby. I know the show loves cliches but that was OTT Hollywood nonsense where the hero has to swear to the villain that he will get his revenge.

Can't please everyone.

The show takes dialogue line by line from the comic - and it's OTT Hollywood stuff.
The show deviates from the comics - ZOMG comics are great, why did they change it.

Mellor

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Personally, I found the overt nature of the death scenes to be bordering on the pornographic.

:eek:

All I'll say is that we must have very different taste in porn...

mrkiscool2

3

Mellor wrote: »

I haven't read the comics, but sounds like you have. Wasn't Abraham already dead at this point in the comics?
It's a little odd to complain that they killed him, and that the comics are better. When the comics killed him too.

Had they just rolled the two deaths out in order, a few episodes apart, then it's all predictable as per the comics. By sacrificing the lesbian doctor previously, and moving Abe's death to the finale, they create a misdirection that hides Glenn's death a little.


The victims in the last few episodes were as per the comics I believe.
Any comic readers able to confirm?

Yes, but Daryl isn't in the comics, Andrea is still alive in the comics. Like, again, there are definitely differences in the comics and TV show, but the point is you make as little changes as possible to an iconic moment that directly change the course of the narrative. This is one of those moments (again, not only the most iconic moment in the comics, one of the most iconic moments of all time). Misdirection isn't always good. Also, the lesbian doctor doesn't die for ages in the comics but died earlier in the show so Abraham could live longer, and Abe in the show is way better than Abe in the comics so, like they killed Andrea off cause she sucked so there is precedent for changing it up a little.

TL;DR: Don't mess with iconic moments that change narrative and keep interesting characters in the show but not the comics alive, R.I.P Abraham.

Mellor

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Yes, but Daryl isn't in the comics, Andrea is still alive in the comics. Like, again, there are definitely differences in the comics and TV show, but the point is you make as little changes as possible to an iconic moment that directly change the course of the narrative. This is one of those moments (again, not only the most iconic moment in the comics, one of the most iconic moments of all time). Misdirection isn't always good. Also, the lesbian doctor doesn't die for ages in the comics but died earlier in the show so Abraham could live longer, and Abe in the show is way better than Abe in the comics so, like they killed Andrea off cause she sucked so there is precedent for changing it up a little.

TL;DR: Don't mess with iconic moments that change narrative and keep interesting characters in the show but not the comics alive, R.I.P Abraham.

I understand what you arte saying, about keeping it true to the comics at those key moments, or where its going to be similar. That would work fine if;
Everyone had read the comics, people had no easy way to check the comics. But that isn't the case. These days people have no patience, they'll actively seek out spoilers. If they stuck true to the comic, a lot of people would now be complaining a 6 month wait, to reveal something they googled months ago.

When the Glenn's death scenario was so readily available, the very fact they turned into a cliffhanger creates an element of uncertainty - it makes no snese that it would be Glenn. This is uncertainly is cemented when Abe is revealed as the victim from the S6 finale. No doubt people were already drafting their complaints. But turns out, it was a double bluff, Glenn still gets Lucilled from left field anyway. They reverso'd (most) of the spoiler fanatics.


TL;DR
It's all the fans fault

thebostoncrab

I gotta say as a fan of the comics, I preferred how the show handled the whole thing. To argue that the show should have followed suit with the comics would have been too predictable. But by killing off a very complex interesting character in Abe and followed by the Glen death, it shows how much business Negan means. It also brings back something that people have been complaining about how ages with the show: no one is safe.

It seemed that after every death in the show, people would complain that it's always secondary characters that meet their maker, removing any tension when the main cast are in danger because "we know" that the producers won't kill them. I was also one of those people. Main characters need to die, and this week that tension returned in a huge way.

If you constantly try to compare the show with the comics, you honestly may as well not bother with the show because you will always find something different that doesn't sit well. They are separate mediums and what works in the comic might not work on tv and vice-versa. I felt the show was more brutal in the death than the comic was, and it really needed to be in order for us to believe that Rick was indeed a broken man.

munster87

7

Some great acting throughout. Especially impressed with the actress playing Lucille. Solid.

maximoose

Mellor wrote: »

The victims in the last few episodes were as per the comics I believe.
Any comic readers able to confirm?

Negan only kills Glenn

Abraham gets an arrow through the back of the head from Dwight (Denise got this death, she survived a little longer in the comics)

mrkiscool2

3

thebostoncrab wrote: »

I gotta say as a fan of the comics, I preferred how the show handled the whole thing. To argue that the show should have followed suit with the comics would have been too predictable. But by killing off a very complex interesting character in Abe and followed by the Glen death, it shows how much business Negan means. It also brings back something that people have been complaining about how ages with the show: no one is safe.

It seemed that after every death in the show, people would complain that it's always secondary characters that meet their maker, removing any tension when the main cast are in danger because "we know" that the producers won't kill them. I was also one of those people. Main characters need to die, and this week that tension returned in a huge way.

If you constantly try to compare the show with the comics, you honestly may as well not bother with the show because you will always find something different that doesn't sit well. They are separate mediums and what works in the comic might not work on tv and vice-versa. I felt the show was more brutal in the death than the comic was, and it really needed to be in order for us to believe that Rick was indeed a broken man.

That's like saying I may as well not watch any of the Marvel movies as I have read those comics too. Look, I don't normally compare the show and comic, hell there are a lot of things I like about the show that aren't in/are different to the comic. I just think iconic moments that change the narrative shouldn't be changed.

Look at GoT. The show and books do differ in a lot of ways, but when it comes to those big, iconic moments from the book, little, if anything, is changed in them meaning fans of the show get that shock and fans of the books get that awesome moment put into graphic motion and detail. It's a win-win really!

homerun_homer

6

FortuneChip wrote: »

Rick's flashes of everyone meeting Lucille were annoying, he knew who was dead and it served as nothing other than a ploy to keep us guessing for longer despite being set after the act
The character flashbacks were also really cheap. Just dig out any 3 frames, and mash them together, sound.

The flashback bits were stupid. Rick is having said flashback but if you were to analyse what was shown he sure as hell wasn't with those characters in all the parts that were shown.

molloyjh

thebostoncrab wrote: »

If you constantly try to compare the show with the comics, you honestly may as well not bother with the show because you will always find something different that doesn't sit well. They are separate mediums and what works in the comic might not work on tv and vice-versa.

This. +1,000 times this.

Personally, as someone who hasn't read the comics at all, I thought that was one of the best hours of TV or film I have ever seen. It was incredibly tough to watch and left me really feeling it but it delivered exactly what it needed to. It took a guy who doesn't lie down, a guy who has consistently fought the odds for his people and who could not be beaten and totally broke him.

After everything he has been through, all the death he has seen, the death of 2 more people alone wasn't going to be enough to break him. He lost his wife, thought he lost his baby, lost numerous friends, had to kill his best friend and had to go through a phase of being feared and despised by people he loved. He has faced cruel and violent men in the past. The Govenor, Terminus, the Wolves etc. It was always going to take a huge amount to break Rick. And so that episode had to deliver on that.

CramCycle

6

Any chance we could start putting spoiler tags around the comic stuff. I have read them all but there are alot of people who might not know that a, b or c is dead or alive.

lee_baby_simms

1

I've watched TWD from the start but I switched off halfway through last night and its the final straw for me.

I thought it was shallow, cheap and cynical.

The Walking Dead used to be so good at eliciting an emotional reaction through actual storytelling, they've done a good job of killing off major characters in the past.

The scene with Glen getting pulped didn't feel like TWD to me. They played with the audience for a cheap reaction. Yes it was shocking but it also felt really hollow. Its a shame that the creators feel they need resort to shallow gimmicks to hold onto the audience.

molloyjh

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

That's like saying I may as well not watch any of the Marvel movies as I have read those comics too.

It's actually nothing like saying that at all. He said don't compare them, not don't watch the TV show.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Look, I don't normally compare the show and comic, hell there are a lot of things I like about the show that aren't in/are different to the comic. I just think iconic moments that change the narrative shouldn't be changed.

An opinion you are perfectly entitled to, but it is somewhat naive to think that when other elements of the show change that the iconic moments can stay the same. I haven't read the comics, but my understanding is that

Rick didn't kill Shane

in the source material. Things like that change the tone and expectations of a character, and so change what is required of the iconic moments.

thebostoncrab

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

That's like saying I may as well not watch any of the Marvel movies as I have read those comics too. Look, I don't normally compare the show and comic, hell there are a lot of things I like about the show that aren't in/are different to the comic. I just think iconic moments that change the narrative shouldn't be changed.

Look at GoT. The show and books do differ in a lot of ways, but when it comes to those big, iconic moments from the book, little, if anything, is changed in them meaning fans of the show get that shock and fans of the books get that awesome moment put into graphic motion and detail. It's a win-win really!

Not at all. There is a difference between looking at the source material and adapting it vs. Taking the material and keeping it shot for shot the same. It's the mistake Watchmen made.

Take Civil War as an example. I can look at the comics and see what they took, and wonder how it would be adapted. The Russo's took enough to show that yes this is based off an already told story, but changed elements to suit the medium. It needs to be viewed as such also. I'm not saying you can't compare the two and have preference over one of the other, but I feel you can't judge the film, or in this case the show, by how one medium handled the story. It should be judged separately in the grand scheme of things.

For Glens death I loved how it was done in the comic, but I also loved how they pulled it off last night because it was changed enough to suit how they were telling the story of the tv show. Would a shot for shot version of the comic work? Maybe, but I honestly think Rick is already more troubled at that stage in the comic and easier to break vs him in the to show, so the show needed to go that extra mile with Abes death and the hand cutting.

molloyjh

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

I've watched TWD from the start but I switched off halfway through last night and its the final straw for me.

I thought it was shallow, cheap and cynical.

The Walking Dead used to be so good at eliciting an emotional reaction through actual storytelling, they've done a good job of killing off major characters in the past.

The scene with Glen getting pulped didn't feel like TWD to me. They played with the audience for a cheap reaction. Yes it was shocking but it also felt really hollow. Its a shame that the creators feel they need resort to shallow gimmicks to hold onto the audience.

I can understand how you feel that way, but that episode was all about breaking Rick. It had to be that brutal to do that. In terms of driving the story forward it was exactly what it needed to be. That probably became more apparent as the show went on though.

mrkiscool2

3

Before we get into this, I'm going to say we are just going to agree to disagree on this, but I want to reply to a few things.

molloyjh wrote: »

An opinion you are perfectly entitled to, but it is somewhat naive to think that when other elements of the show change that the iconic moments can stay the same. I haven't read the comics, but my understanding is that

Rick didn't kill Shane

in the source material. Things like that change the tone and expectations of a character, and so change what is required of the iconic moments.

The iconic moment there

isn't necessarily Carl killing Shane (as in the comics) instead of Rick killing Shane, but Carl protecting his father, showing that the world is most certainly changing him.

Something like that is fine, it still keeps the moment pretty much there, the same message and such, but delivers it in a slightly different way. Not majorly. It doesn't completely change the entire scene

Negan kills one instead of 2, asks Rick to kill him in front of the gang, breaks Rick without having to cart him off and Maggie slaps Rick and calls him a coward

. When you completely alter (with the exception of a single death) the scene, it kind of ruins the moment, at least in my opinion

thebostoncrab wrote: »

Not at all. There is a difference between looking at the source material and adapting it vs. Taking the material and keeping it shot for shot the same. It's the mistake Watchmen made.

Take Civil War as an example. I can look at the comics and see what they took, and wonder how it would be adapted. The Russo's took enough to show that yes this is based off an already told story, but changed elements to suit the medium. It needs to be viewed as such also. I'm not saying you can't compare the two and have preference over one of the other, but I feel you can't judge the film, or in this case the show, by how one medium handled the story. It should be judged separately in the grand scheme of things.

For Glens death I loved how it was done in the comic, but I also loved how they pulled it off last night because it was changed enough to suit how they were telling the story of the tv show. Would a shot for shot version of the comic work? Maybe, but I honestly think Rick is already more troubled at that stage in the comic and easier to break vs him in the to show, so the show needed to go that extra mile with Abes death and the hand cutting.

I'd disagree on that. Again, they have only introduced a few of the main players from Civil War into it, almost impossible to have 100 or so comic book characters with their own stories before you even get into Civil War. I thought that had to be adapted to make it plausible, to just add in a bunch of randomers (to the non-comic fans) would have made no sense at all. Still annoyed at how Civil War ended but I enjoyed the movie because I knew going in there was no way they could have properly pulled off the arc from the comics.

Don't get me wrong, Glenn's death is still great and is still quite similar to the comics (even if the context is slightly different), it's all the other things that annoyed me rather than that. I also liked how they showed that Negan does actually have some humanity, as you'd know as a comic book fan. But 2 minutes does not make up for 40 other minutes of a complete change from that moment. GoT is much more of a fair comparison than Marvel, and they have kept all of the iconic moments in the book almost identical in the show.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, delighted so many non-comic fans enjoyed it and from what I've seen, read and heard, a fair few comic book fans loved it too. But that doesn't mean that the people who didn't can't be annoyed about it! Still thought the acting was fantastic.

intheclouds

Why is there so much chat about comics here - this is a thread about the television show?

mrkiscool2

3

intheclouds wrote: »

Why is there so much chat about comics here - this is a thread about the television show?

Because the show is based on the comics? And this moment is pretty important in both the show and the comics?

Joeface

Replace lenny with

Glen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o68jQjPCDtU

TerrorFirmer

8

I read the comics, a bit behind at this point but that episode was probably the most engaging, compelling and well crafted episode I've seen of TWD in a very long time. Those deaths were absolutely brutal, as they needed to be but far beyond what I would have expected the show to do. By far the most depraved, excessively violently gruesome scene in the entire affair thus far. It was so vicious it actually felt like I was watching something other than TWD, but for me, it was a very positive step in really renewing my interest in what I consider a flagging (though still very popular) show.

I don't really get people who grumble excessively about the comics. Yes, they're spectacular, and yes, the show deviates radically from them. Frankly, I enjoy that, because it means I don't know what's coming up in the show and you're gifted the element of suspence and surprise. It was the same with Preacher, significantly different from the comic but once you accept that basic fact, it's still an excellent TV show. Ultimately, of the target audience of TWD, only a minute fraction would have even read the comics. Some things the comic did better, but you really can't be stuck in that mindframe when watching a show like this.

mrkiscool2

3

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I read the comics, a bit behind at this point but that episode was probably the most engaging, compelling and well crafted episode I've seen of TWD in a very long time. Those deaths were absolutely brutal, as they needed to be but far beyond what I would have expected the show to do. By far the most depraved, excessively violently gruesome scene in the entire affair thus far. It was so vicious it actually felt like I was watching something other than TWD, but for me, it was a very positive step in really renewing my interest in what I consider a flagging (though still very popular) show.

I don't really get people who grumble excessively about the comics. Yes, they're spectacular, and yes, the show deviates radically from them. Frankly, I enjoy that, because it means I don't know what's coming up in the show and you're gifted the element of suspence and surprise. It was the same with Preacher, significantly different from the comic but once you accept that basic fact, it's still an excellent TV show. Ultimately, of the target audience of TWD, only a minute fraction would have even read the comics. Some things the comic did better, but you really can't be stuck in that mindframe when watching a show like this.

Last time I'll say this. It's literally this one, super iconic moment that I am grumbling about, I don't normally complain about differences between the comic and show. I like the differences they have mostly! I thought Terminus made way more sense than how they meet the cannibals in the comics. But, and it's a big but, I don't think they should have so radically altered the scene from the comic. Just my humble opinion, and it's the last I'll say on it. Looking forward to next week though, the impact on the Hilltop and Alexandria is gonna be HUGE!

TerrorFirmer

8

I wasn't specifically addressing you, just have seen some people moaning online about it. Personally as a comic book fan I think they handled it well - I'm surprised they even went there as brutally graphically as they did, so I feel they deserves major kudos for keeping the sheer savage brutality intact, even if the context is slightly different. It could so easily have been a watered down, ineffective scene featuring a character no one cares about. In fact, my positive reception of the episode is probably in large part based on relief that it was as hard as nails as I had hoped it would be but didn't quite expect at the same time.

molloyjh

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Before we get into this, I'm going to say we are just going to agree to disagree on this, but I want to reply to a few things.

The iconic moment there

isn't necessarily Carl killing Shane (as in the comics) instead of Rick killing Shane, but Carl protecting his father, showing that the world is most certainly changing him.

Something like that is fine, it still keeps the moment pretty much there, the same message and such, but delivers it in a slightly different way. Not majorly. It doesn't completely change the entire scene

Negan kills one instead of 2, asks Rick to kill him in front of the gang, breaks Rick without having to cart him off and Maggie slaps Rick and calls him a coward

. When you completely alter (with the exception of a single death) the scene, it kind of ruins the moment, at least in my opinion

It may ruin the moment that you remember from the comic, but that's because you knew about it going in and were directly comparing the two. But they are different. You mentioned the fact that Rick kills Shane as being ok because the general point of the scene was the same. While that is true the impact on the character is entirely different. Especially from the audience perspective. The entire build up to it means that Rick has to face up to the new reality and act. That wasn't what happened in the comics and so Rick as a person, and the perception of Rick as a character, is different. Changes like these aren't just changes to scenes. They impact how the audience views and feels about the individual characters. And that has to have a knock on impact on how they get treated from then onwards.

For me had it happened how you explained it from the comics I actually would have been disappointed. Rick breaking after that alone just wouldn't fit with who I see him as being. Because the only Rick I know is the one from the TV show. And that guys first reaction is to kill those who threaten him. He's a guy who can take the hits and still fight back. Breaking that guy would take a hell of a lot. Killing his friend would just piss him off.

intheclouds

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Because the show is based on the comics? And this moment is pretty important in both the show and the comics?

So what? There is a thread for comic book discussion.

This is specifically a thread about the television episode. Some of us dont want the comics books spoiled as we are not that far along yet.

Im going to raise it with the mods and let them decide.

Dial Hard

I need to watch it again. Think I was in shock last night.

I did think Maggie was remarkably sanguine about Glenn's death, though. She barely reacted.

intheclouds

Dial Hard wrote: »

I need to watch it again. Think I was in shock last night.

I did think Maggie was remarkably sanguine about Glenn's death, though. She barely reacted.

I thought Carl was remarkably sanguine about the prospect of losing his arm - then again perhaps he remembered Merles knife arm and realised a knife arm in the zombie apocalypse is a good thing.

mrkiscool2

3

intheclouds wrote: »

So what? There is a thread for comic book discussion.

This is specifically a thread about the television episode. Some of us dont want the comics books spoiled as we are not that far along yet.

Im going to raise it with the mods and let them decide.

That's grand. I've not spoilt anything further ahead which is what I shouldn't be doing. If the mods feel that discussing how the comic book relates to the show in the show thread is bad I'll stop.

intheclouds

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

That's grand. I've not spoilt anything further ahead which is what I shouldn't be doing. If the mods feel that discussing how the comic book relates to the show in the show thread is bad I'll stop.

And if they are happy for discussion to continue Ill stay out of the thread and find somewhere else on the interwebs to discuss the tv show.