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Landlords right of entry......

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  • 20-10-2016 10:24pm
    #1
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭


    Two girls sharing a house, one is away for a few months for work. Still paying her rent and share of bills obvs. The landlord wants to gain access to her room so a tradesman can do a job in there. The other housemate in the house says no problem as other work is being carried out as well.
    The housemate who is away says in no uncertain terms is anyone to go into her room while she's not there. Her room is locked, landlord supplied the keys so he has a copy.
    She's not back in the country till the New Year and the landlord says he's not waiting till then. Can he enter anyway?
    My friend who is the other housemate thinks it's nothing to do with her as such but her housemate says that as they have a joint tennancy agreement she'll be holding my friend responsible.

    Does the landlord have the right to enter her room? Is my friend in some way responsible for keeping him out as it were?


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    #2
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    anon71 wrote: »
    Two girls sharing a house, one is away for a few months for work. Still paying her rent and share of bills obvs. The landlord wants to gain access to her room so a tradesman can do a job in there. The other housemate in the house says no problem as other work is being carried out as well.
    The housemate who is away says in no uncertain terms is anyone to go into her room while she's not there. Her room is locked, landlord supplied the keys so he has a copy.
    She's not back in the country till the New Year and the landlord says he's not waiting till then. Can he enter anyway?
    My friend who is the other housemate thinks it's nothing to do with her as such but her housemate says that as they have a joint tennancy agreement she'll be holding my friend responsible.

    Does the landlord have the right to enter her room? Is my friend in some way responsible for keeping him out as it were?

    Your friend can not be held responsible!

    The landlord can enter in an emergency or if the work is required to protect damage to his property. Obviously in this case he wants the tradesman to do two jobs on one visit to avoid a separate call out fee. Once he has given adequate notice to the other tenant then he should be able to enter to get the required work done.


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    #3
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Your friend can not be held responsible!

    The landlord can enter in an emergency or if the work is required to protect damage to his property. Obviously in this case he wants the tradesman to do two jobs on one visit to avoid a separate call out fee. Once he has given adequate notice to the other tenant then he should be able to enter to get the required work done.

    The tradesman is doing a good bit of work to the house. Nothing urgent but general repairs and maintenance that I believe the landlord wants to get sorted before the end of the year. My friend is delighted to get the work done because the house is quite old and a little bit rundown. To be fair, I'd hate someone to be in my personal space if I was around but my friend isn't going to be in the house herself when most of it is being done anyway because she'll be at work. But she knows the tradesman and she's a pretty chilled out girl anyway.
    I think the HM is being a bit dramatic, I've told my friend to tell her to take it up with the landlord and leave her out of it. They're not friends as such, just housemates but I know she doesn't want to have grief from her either. She had told the HM that she was willing to make sure she was in the house when her room was being used but the HM said no to that as well.


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    #4
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    The landlord needs to give notice in advance that there is work being done, if she can,t be there when the work is being done its not the landlord,s fault .
    And its not reasonable to expect the landlord to wait til she comes back ,since she is gone for Months ,the landlord probably wants to finish the work, pay the tradesman before xmas .
    Her friend can be there when the work on the room is being done ,if she wants .


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    #5
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    riclad wrote: »
    The landlord needs to give notice in advance that there is work being done, if she can,t be there when the work is being done its not the landlord,s fault .
    And its not reasonable to expect the landlord to wait til she comes back ,since she is gone for Months ,the landlord probably wants to finish the work, pay the tradesman before xmas .
    Her friend can be there when the work on the room is being done ,if she wants .

    She had offered to take a few hours off work to be in the house when the tradesman was in her room, but the housemate said no to this as well. She's obviously not comfortable with having someone in her room while she's not there which I can understand. But I was speaking to my friend again and apparently the HM isn't happy for the tradesman to be in the house alone either while my friend is at work which is ridiculous. It's all a bit OTT I think.....


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    #6
    lollsangel
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭lollsangel


    Don't you normally have it written into your lease a maximum amount of time that you can be absent from the house....eg I couldn't leave my place unoccupied for more than a month..


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lollsangel wrote: »
    Don't you normally have it written into your lease a maximum amount of time that you can be absent from the house....eg I couldn't leave my place unoccupied for more than a month..

    Thats to do with insurance and refers to the entire building, not a single room. The landlord is being perfectly reasonable here. Its up to the housemate who's away to arrange for somebody to move or watch her stuff if she feels thats necessary.


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    #8
    nkav86
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭nkav86


    The HM is being overly dramatic here, as was mentioned by others the landlord wants to work done And had given notice. Your friend is bending over backwards to accommodate their HM, which is amazing, and the HM still isn't happy. They need to get real here, and if they're so adamant that nobody goes in alone, she needs to come back herself. Tell your friend not to stress, she's doing all she can, her HM is wrong here


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    #9
    Stoner
    Registered Users Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Just tell her to go hands off. The LL can let himself in do the work lock the door after him anyway. Sounds like he's just improving the place .

    Your friend can be unaware it was done as there are other things being done anyway . Just reverse out of it.

    When the hm returns let her take it up with the LL if he had entered.

    Someone could be looking for an excuse to stop paying something too.


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    #10
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,990 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    Is she hiding a dead body or drugs in their?

    If she has gone away for several months and its an old house there could be mould building up or anything in there. Its very unreasonable of the HM. She needs to cop on,


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    #11
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    anon71 wrote: »
    Two girls sharing a house, one is away for a few months for work. Still paying her rent and share of bills obvs. The landlord wants to gain access to her room so a tradesman can do a job in there. The other housemate in the house says no problem as other work is being carried out as well.
    The housemate who is away says in no uncertain terms is anyone to go into her room while she's not there. Her room is locked, landlord supplied the keys so he has a copy.
    She's not back in the country till the New Year and the landlord says he's not waiting till then. Can he enter anyway?
    My friend who is the other housemate thinks it's nothing to do with her as such but her housemate says that as they have a joint tennancy agreement she'll be holding my friend responsible.

    Does the landlord have the right to enter her room? Is my friend in some way responsible for keeping him out as it were?

    Unless it Is the lease joint and several?


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    #12
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    lollsangel wrote: »
    Don't you normally have it written into your lease a maximum amount of time that you can be absent from the house....eg I couldn't leave my place unoccupied for more than a month..

    House isn't unoccupied. My friend is there.


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    #13
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Unless it Is the lease joint and several?

    I'm not sure what this means. AFAIK it's a standard lease. The HM was living there for a while before my friend moved in. Both sign the lease every year.


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    #14
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    Anyway the upshot is that my friend has told the LL that she has no problem with the work being carried out and he can deal with the HM himself.


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    #15
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    anon71 wrote: »
    I'm not sure what this means. AFAIK it's a standard lease. The HM was living there for a while before my friend moved in. Both sign the lease every year.

    I think the implication is a joint lease would likely mean the landlord only needs the permission from one of the tenants.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Graham wrote: »
    I think the implication is a joint lease would likely mean the landlord only needs the permission from one of the tenants.

    Landlord doesn't need permission. He just needs to behave reasonably. If he is reasonable he can enter whether 'permission' is denied or not. And in this case he seems to have behaved quite reasonably.


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    #17
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,965 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    If HM has a problem with tradesperson entering her room while she's not there, then HM needs to book herself a cheap flight and come back for a holiday at a time convenient to the tradesperson.

    Tenants are required to allow LL and tradespeople reasonable access to do work.


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    #18
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Landlord doesn't need permission. He just needs to behave reasonably.

    Once a tenant occupies the property, a landlord is only allowed to
    enter the property with the tenant’s permission or in an emergency. If repairs or an inspection need to be carried out on the premises then the landlord must make a prior arrangement with the tenant to gain access.

    Source: electronic Irish Statute Book. Statutory Instrument S.I. No. 217 of 2016


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    #19
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    Graham wrote: »
    Once a tenant occupies the property, a landlord is only allowed to
    enter the property with the tenant’s permission or in an emergency. If repairs or an inspection need to be carried out on the premises then the landlord must make a prior arrangement with the tenant to gain access.

    Source: electronic Irish Statute Book. Statutory Instrument S.I. No. 217 of 2016

    So where there are 2 tenants and one has no issue with entry but the other who is absent has an issue, does that statute prevail. In other words, can the absent HM hold up the work legally. I know legal advice can't be given on Boards.ie but can common sense prevail...


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    #20
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Graham wrote: »
    Once a tenant occupies the property, a landlord is only allowed to
    enter the property with the tenant’s permission or in an emergency. If repairs or an inspection need to be carried out on the premises then the landlord must make a prior arrangement with the tenant to gain access.

    Source: electronic Irish Statute Book. Statutory Instrument S.I. No. 217 of 2016

    Read further up in the SI, it says he must be granted reasonable access.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2016/si/217/made/en/print

    It also states the tenant must inform the landlord or repaid are needed and grant him access


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    #21
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    anon71 wrote: »
    So where there are 2 tenants and one has no issue with entry but the other who is absent has an issue, does that statute prevail. In other words, can the absent HM hold up the work legally. I know legal advice can't be given on Boards.ie but can common sense prevail...

    My completely unlegal guess would be either tenant could grant permission in a joint tenancy. I can't find anything that specific.


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    #22
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    ted1 wrote: »
    Read further up in the SI, it says he must be granted reasonable access.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2016/si/217/made/en/print

    The remedy to which would be via the RTB not by illegal entry.


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    #23
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    God, tis an awful lot of palaver over nothing if you ask me. I don't even know what she has in the room that she doesn't even want to be seen..


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    #24
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Totally unreasonable to refuse access for such a long time. A few weeks, yes. A few months...no.


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    #25
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    If it is a joint and several lease any one tenant can allow access to the landlord. The the co-operating tenant could in fact be held responsible, if there was damage occurring in the HMs room which was going unrepaired. If there was a leak or ingress of water, threatening the fabric of the building or even a dangerous electrical fault all tenants would be liable if they failed to notify the landlord and allow the landlord carry out repairs.
    The landlord is completely in the clear if one tenant allows him access. The RTB take joint and several liability seriously.


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Some people I just couldn't deal with and the crap from that HM would just drive me insane god help her if she ever owns a house and needs work done is she going to sit at home every day stuff is happening even if it's for weeks?

    90% of the time a tradesman has come to do stuff in the places I've lived the key goes under the mat for them in the morning when leaving for work and they work away at whatever. The other 10% of the time I just happened to be there when they called.


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    #27
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    Misael Massive Grommet wrote: »
    Some people I just couldn't deal with and the crap from that HM would just drive me insane god help her if she ever owns a house and needs work done is she going to sit at home every day stuff is happening even if it's for weeks?

    90% of the time a tradesman has come to do stuff in the places I've lived the key goes under the mat for them in the morning when leaving for work and they work away at whatever. The other 10% of the time I just happened to be there when they called.

    I agree. She would wreck my head but my friend is way more easy going than me plus the HM is away a good bit for work so they don't see each other much. Anyway the tradesman is coming on Monday morning so that's that.


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    #28
    anon71
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭anon71


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    If it is a joint and several lease any one tenant can allow access to the landlord. The the co-operating tenant could in fact be held responsible, if there was damage occurring in the HMs room which was going unrepaired. If there was a leak or ingress of water, threatening the fabric of the building or even a dangerous electrical fault all tenants would be liable if they failed to notify the landlord and allow the landlord carry out repairs.
    The landlord is completely in the clear if one tenant allows him access. The RTB take joint and several liability seriously.

    I haven't seen the lease but my friend said its pretty basic and says the same each year. They sign with a witness and give it back.


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    #29
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Can we please have a specific on exactly what is going to be done to the absent tenants room. It's been stated that is not urgent and it's been hinted at that it a small job so in my opinion a housemate that's not home or amen ant that's not there but still pays their rent is handy. If it was me and I didn't want someone in my room and hey went n just to "do maintaince " I'd feel that was a breach of privacy. I worked with tradesmen for years and lot of people aren't happy leaving out a key and we always respect that. I've also bee sent enough pics by lads on other jobs or things people have in their house to start a small blog


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    #30
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    If it is a joint and several lease any one tenant can allow access to the landlord. The the co-operating tenant could in fact be held responsible, if there was damage occurring in the HMs room which was going unrepaired. If there was a leak or ingress of water, threatening the fabric of the building or even a dangerous electrical fault all tenants would be liable if they failed to notify the landlord and allow the landlord carry out repairs.
    The landlord is completely in the clear if one tenant allows him access. The RTB take joint and several liability seriously.

    I don't think there is a leak I think it's something small like paint or cosmetic


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tigger wrote: »
    If it was me and I didn't want someone in my room and hey went n just to "do maintaince " I'd feel that was a breach of privacy.

    Forget about maintenance, the landlord is entitled, in fact supposed, to inspect his property, again at a reasonable time and giving reasonable notice. Indeed, if he doesnt do so and something has gone wrong which could have been picked up by an earlier inspection, it can go badly for him.

    Refusing to allow reasonable inspection is breach of the lease, and if he was so minded he could act accordingly.


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