Pine Marten

Spent

Many Pinemartins about . Have seen plenty of them in the Midlands . I know they are protected species but just curious to know how much damage they are doing to released pheasant poults . Are Martins protected in the uk ?
In the last 2 or 3 years I've seen a lot .
During the silage cutting I've seen 3 in one feild while out fox shooting .
Would a pine Martin take fox Cubs ?

skallywag

I've plenty of experience with these lads, one of them climbed under the bonnet of my car some months back and munched through the coolant hose. He will get a nasty surprise the next time he comes back due to the electroshock sensors I subsequently installed.

No, I believe that a fox cub would be too big for a martin to take, unless it was a complete runt.

KE_MAN

Would love to see some Pine Martin relocated to the Pheonix Park. The Park is abundant with Grey Squirrel and no pest control programme in place to curb their population growth. Not a red squirrel in sight. I was amazed last weekend while at the Zoo the large amount of vermin outside in the park e.g. Grey Squirrel, Grey Crows, Magpies and rats. It is a disgrace.

Shaner82

Used to drive through the park every morning going to the work. That amount of magpies and grey crows is just unreal.

have2flushtwice

Maybe one or two could be relocated?
What effect would a pine Martin have on areas non target species?

KE_MAN

Hi

There should be no threat to other species with introduction of Pine Martin. If anything it should benefit other species populations.

J.R.

KE_MAN wrote: »

Hi

There should be no threat to other species with introduction of Pine Martin. If anything it should benefit other species populations.

Don't think the grey squirrels there would agree!!

..............not that it would be any harm to see the grey squirrel numbers there kept in check.

Gonehawking

Not seen one for a few years..until this evening when i caught one killing the wife's chickens..there just as bad as mink in my opinion killed 9 chickens and took none of them!!!!

Hotei

Gonehawking wrote: »

Not seen one for a few years..until this evening when i caught one killing the wife's chickens..there just as bad as mink in my opinion killed 9 chickens and took none of them!!!!

You caught it in the act, hence why it didn't take one. If you weren't about, it most likely would have taken one to cache, and then return for more. Simples.

Tikka391

One killed 100 pheasant poults in a pen in a north Meath club last summer. Big rise in the north east meath area.
They are being released in a wood popular with walkers.
I heard on local radio the man over the release project (can't remember the name) telling people to go and have a walk and see the beautiful pine Martin.

Hotei

Tikka391 wrote: »

One killed 100 pheasant poults in a pen in a north Meath club last summer. Big rise in the north east meath area.
They are being released in a wood popular with walkers.
I heard on local radio the man over the release project (can't remember the name) telling people to go and have a walk and see the beautiful pine Martin.

How did it get into the pen? If the pen was insufficiently secured, then maybe there may not have been any poult losses on that occasion. Poor gamekeeping at fault there, I suspect.

Grizzly 45

Wait until one or two of them move into someones attic..They will total a place in no time building their nests.

Half-cocked

Hotei wrote: »

How did it get into the pen? If the pen was insufficiently secured, then maybe there may not have been any poult losses on that occasion. Poor gamekeeping at fault there, I suspect.

That sounds right. A pen set up to be secure from foxes won't keep Pine Marten out. When they started showing up on our shoot we immediately marten-proofed the pen. Your electric fence needs an extra wire lower to the ground and extra wires up and around all pop holes (but if you have mink in the area you should have done this already). Plus no overhanging branches than a Marten could climb over the top of the fence. Plenty of Martens in the area and yet to have one get into the pen. Big bonus to having Martens is all the Grey Squirrels have buggered off. No more gnawing through the feeder lids.

Tikka391

Hotei wrote: »

How did it get into the pen? If the pen was insufficiently secured, then maybe there may not have been any poult losses on that occasion. Poor gamekeeping at fault there, I suspect.

Hey I'm only telling you what happend. It wasn't our club so i don't know the ins and outs

Hotei

Tikka391 wrote: »

Hey I'm only telling you what happend. It wasn't our club so i don't know the ins and outs

It was a rhetorical question. Chill out man!

blackpearl

Tikka391 wrote: »

One killed 100 pheasant poults in a pen in a north Meath club last summer. Big rise in the north east meath area.
They are being released in a wood popular with walkers.
I heard on local radio the man over the release project (can't remember the name) telling people to go and have a walk and see the beautiful pine Martin.

Did he not tell them to try and catch it and give it a pet,then they would see how beautuful it is,clowns like him should be put in jail ,because what he done should be classed as a crime against wildlife.

ligertigon

Nothing ever stopping someone releasing a ferret into a pheasant pen for 20 mins.

But jumping to conclusions about what predator did what without evidence is insane.

Tikka391

ligertigon wrote: »

Nothing ever stopping someone releasing a ferret into a pheasant pen for 20 mins.

But jumping to conclusions about what predator did what without evidence is insane.

There was proof. 100% proof.

Eddie B

The old green mesh over the top of pen's ain't worth a dalm these days, is it. The Pine Marten is no doubt, an amazing predator. He can take prey from the ground, and the tree's. He can climb, run at speed, and swim if needs be. It certainly is a beautiful animal, and where common, is probably number one pen raider we have.

But remember folks, the Pine Marten is very much protected in this country. That's the law, and so they can't be touched. It's up to us, to make our pen's predator proof. There are right and wrong ways to build a pen. Once built, it's so important to maintain pen's year after year. There's a lot of guy's out there, that either dont know how to construct a proper pen, or are to lazy to do it properly. That's just fact.

It's easy blame the Marten, Mink or whatever for the loss of birds, but the real blame has to fall on the individual, club etc.

richiedel123

Hotei wrote: »

You caught it in the act, hence why it didn't take one. If you weren't about, it most likely would have taken one to cache, and then return for more. Simples.

Wrong!!! Never seen them hunt like that. They kill everything and come back to feast when they get hungry

Gonehawking

Hotei wrote: »

You caught it in the act, hence why it didn't take one. If you weren't about, it most likely would have taken one to cache, and then return for more. Simples.

Really!!! would have cache it and come back to eat it later, maybe brought mrs martin back for a valentines meal lol….sorry back to reality, it had already killed 8 of the hens before i found it killing the ninth, the fact is they kill anything that moves, they are unbelievable predators and surprisingly strong for there size as well as being very destructive, I've seen them get into very well built pens, coups etc.

SILVAMAN

have2flushtwice wrote: »

Maybe one or two could be relocated?
What effect would a pine Martin have on areas non target species?

West Clare here Pine marten all over the place and plenty of red squirrels too. Supposedly the marten is too heavy to follow red to lighter branches and this is thought to be a reason the grey squirrel is not abundant on the west if at all here.

dodderangler

SILVAMAN wrote: »

West Clare here Pine marten all over the place and plenty of red squirrels too. Supposedly the marten is too heavy to follow red to lighter branches and this is thought to be a reason the grey squirrel is not abundant on the west if at all here.

Good reason to have em about then. Greys are a nightmare and have been on the red population. Problem with the martens then is if they get too abundant they'll make Shiite of a farmers poultry and a pheasant pen so good husbandry is a must.

thefisherbuy

dodderangler wrote: »

Good reason to have em about then. Greys are a nightmare and have been on the red population. Problem with the martens then is if they get too abundant they'll make Shiite of a farmers poultry and a pheasant pen so good husbandry is a must.

Not much around me pinemartins there's not much grey squirrels either, went to Dublin a few years back and the amount of them grey squirrels around the place especially in the zoo was ridiculous!!

dodderangler

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Not much around me pinemartins there's not much grey squirrels either, went to Dublin a few years back and the amount of them grey squirrels around the place especially in the zoo was ridiculous!!

I have them on my road in Tallaght. Numbers have gone way up and for some reason I've only one sparrowhawk around now. Wonder if the greys are raiding nests as they do with other birds.

blackpearl

had one in our area last year ,thank god for a lorry driver he left him like a door mat in the middle of the road.

blackpearl

dodderangler wrote: »

I have them on my road in Tallaght. Numbers have gone way up and for some reason I've only one sparrowhawk around now. Wonder if the greys are raiding nests as they do with other birds.

Pine martins are listed as a predator to sparrowhawks as well as barn owls,goss hawks ect,dont no if it attacks on the ground when hawk is on prey or raids nests for young birds.

Chiparus

Pinemartins kill for fun, http://www.raising-happy-chickens.com/pine-marten.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/pine-marten-killed-1437932-May2014/

Eddie B

Chiparus wrote: »

Pinemartins kill for fun, http://www.raising-happy-chickens.com/pine-marten.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/pine-marten-killed-1437932-May2014/

Pine Marten, are predators! The word FUN shouldn't even come into a discussion, thats more a human trait.

To be honest I didn't even read those articles.

All predators will do the same thing. It's just instinct. Not defending them by the way, just being realistice.

Cass

Eddie B wrote: »

Pine Marten, are predators! The word FUN shouldn't even come into a discussion, thats more a human trait.

Yup. Anthropomorphism.

To be honest I didn't even read those articles.

The Journal!!. Nuff said.


MOD NOTE

Lads and ladies i will say this much, with the Mod hat on.. The Pine Marten, regardless of your personal opinion, is a protected species and as such any discussion about killing them (however subtle you think you're being) is illegal and as illegal discussion is not allowed on the forum it will be removed.


On a personal note we do ourselves no favours by discussing such things. It's only a very small minority that believe they should be culled and even less so that think they should be eradicated. They serve a function and much like the buzzard talk you cannot attribute all drops in game and livestock numbers to natural predators. Even if they take some it's part and parcel of the sport we're in.

As Eddie B said improve and maintain any pens and predator controls you have in place and it won't happen or at the very least will be reduced to much more manageable/tolerable levels.

Chiparus

Eddie B wrote: »

Pine Marten, are predators! The word FUN shouldn't even come into a discussion, thats more a human trait.

To be honest I didn't even read those articles.

All predators will do the same thing. It's just instinct. Not defending them by the way, just being realistice.

My post was in response to a now deleted post -

But this is what the article states:
The killer who kills for fun.
It's sometimes hard to tell what's responsible when a predator strikes, but most do leave tell-tale signs. A fox, for example, will generally leave a pile of feathers but no body. The chicken becomes dinner for adults and cubs alike.

A marten, and any other member of the stoat family including weasels, mink and the raccoon, tends not to kill for food but for fun. More often than not you'll find the carcass of the chicken still in the run.

It's one of the things that makes these kills so hard to take - having any chicken killed is not easy to deal with, but at least when they're taken by a fox you can rationalise that it's part of the food chain.

With a marten that's not possible because usually, it isn't.