Pine Marten

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

Problems solved lets release loads of golden eagles and packs of wolves the grouse numbers will explode.

Thay would. I don't think it'd do sheep farmers any favours though.

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

SO where are these grouse going to come from?

When a mammy grouse and a daddy grouse love each other...... .

blackpearl

Brian? wrote: »

When a mammy grouse and a daddy grouse love each other...... .

They have to meet first to fall in love

blackpearl

Brian? wrote: »

So you don't think more predators would reduce vermin numbers? That's completely counter intuitive.

Rabbits are vermin. They just happen to be tasty. Any farmer I know considers them vermin.

What's your complete list of vermin? Does in include anything that will hunt your prey?

More predators would reduce vermin numbers,i will allow you to make this stament you must be just out of bed,statment of the week award well done.With statments like that their would be nothing left to hunt,by the way the birds i hunt i dont call them prey.

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

More predators would reduce vermin numbers,i will allow you to make this stament you must be just out of bed,statment of the week award well done.With statments like that their would be nothing left to hunt,by the way the birds i hunt i dont call them prey.

I'm sorry but that's a but incoherent. I'm not sure I get your point?

The birds you hunt are your prey. You're a predator and they're prey. That's hardly controversial is it?

We have the ability to maintain hunting stocks while reintroducing predators. It's a lazy generalisation to want to see the predator numbers controlled as tightly as you do.

You still haven't answered me. Do you want to see them all wiped out?

blackpearl

Us hunters refair to {PREY] as game or quarry ,a pinemartin preys on all sorts of wildlife and kills for fun as well as food.

blackpearl

Brian? wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's a but incoherent. I'm not sure I get your point?

The birds you hunt are your prey. You're a predator and they're prey. That's hardly controversial is it?

We have the ability to maintain hunting stocks while reintroducing predators. It's a lazy generalisation to want to see the predator numbers controlled as tightly as you do.

You still haven't answered me. Do you want to see them all wiped out?

?culled would be a better word .

blackpearl

Brian? wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's a but incoherent. I'm not sure I get your point?

The birds you hunt are your prey. You're a predator and they're prey. That's hardly controversial is it?

We have the ability to maintain hunting stocks while reintroducing predators. It's a lazy generalisation to want to see the predator numbers controlled as tightly as you do.

You still haven't answered me. Do you want to see them all wiped out?

Lasy generalisation now you have it ,out half the night during the week shooting foxes checking snares,fox hunts at the weekend, building pens and feeding pheasants most of the summer you would know all about it whats your effort towards game hunting other than the forum .now could you answer MY question.

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

Us hunters refair to {PREY] as game or quarry ,a pinemartin preys on all sorts of wildlife and kills for fun as well as food.

I know how hunters refer to their prey; it really doesn't change the fact that the animals you're hunting are your prey. I don't understand why you're objecting to it.

Have you any proof Pine martens kill for fun? I don't believe their cognitive functions are really developed enough to have fun. They are simple creatures. They kill because they have an automatic response to prey. You're ascribing morals to a pine marten. I have no problem with people hunting for fun, I've done it myself, do you object to hunting purely for fun?

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

Lasy generalisation now you have it ,out half the night during the week shooting foxes checking snares,fox hunts at the weekend, building pens and feeding pheasants most of the summer you would know all about it whats your effort towards game hunting other than the forum .now could you answer MY question.

You still haven't answered my question.

blackpearl

blackpearl wrote: »

?culled would be a better word .

Is that not the answer ?

blackpearl

Brian? wrote: »

I know how hunters refer to their prey; it really doesn't change the fact that the animals you're hunting are your prey. I don't understand why you're objecting to it.

Have you any proof Pine martens kill for fun? I don't believe their cognitive functions are really developed enough to have fun. They are simple creatures. They kill because they have an automatic response to prey. You're ascribing morals to a pine marten. I have no problem with people hunting for fun, I've done it myself, do you object to hunting purely for fun?

i hunt for the love of the sport and hunters refair to it as game or quarry,pens been wiped out and hen houses been cleaned they are murdering little bastards and you or any of the so called hunters that have appeard on the hunting forum this last week defending them will not change my mind on this .

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

i hunt for the love of the sport and hunters refair to it as game or quarry,pens been wiped out and hen houses been cleaned they are murdering little bastards and you or any of the so called hunters that have appeard on the hunting forum this last week defending them will not change my mind on this .

Again with the murdering. Why are they murdering little bastards? I don't believe hunting is murder, so why would pine martens be murderers?

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

Is that not the answer ?

Not really. I think the numbers are far too low to cull. You don't seem to think so. At what point do we start the cull? It might surprise you, but I agree there will be a future number.

blackpearl

well that my find on it ,now answer my question.

Cass

blackpearl wrote: »

............. so you want to see the wholescale murder of all kinds of wildlife in this country .................

blackpearl wrote: »

............ they are murdering little bastards ............

Lets drop the word murder/murderer/murdered and anything other incarnation of the word.

Pine Marten do not murder. they don't drive around in a dark Chevvy van trying to pick up people off the streets. They are an animal. They do as they are ""programmed" to do by nature, instinct and thousands of years of evolution.

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

well that my find on it ,now answer my question.

What? You want to cull pine martens now at their current levels? Down to what?

blackpearl

answer the question and less of the playing around .

ligertigon

I think Brian should dress up in a stoat outfit, and bpearl a pheasant costume. And go paintballing
I'd pay to watch:P

blackpearl

ligertigon wrote: »

I think Brian should dress up in a stoat outfit, and bpearl a pheasant costume. And go paintballing
I'd pay to watch:P

i would be up for that, should i were my wild pheasant coat ,or the released pheasant coat.:D

Birdnuts

blackpearl wrote: »

O my god i have heard it all now,grouse numbers more so in decline where hen harrier numbers are down,one of the greatest surveys ever done on grouse and hen harriers living side by side was in langholm estate it was over a 10 year span, between the years 1995 -96 30%of adult grouse were killed by raptors in the winter, and a other 30% killed in the summer ,hen harriers accounted fo 40% of grouse chicks killed .The numbers of grouse on that moor would of been 4 times higher in the absent of raptors,good enough for me .I taught this thread was about pine martins now were back to birds of prey we all know the way this is going to go.

Langholm is a driven grouse moor where birds are maintained at many times their natural densities - and despite the presence of a large Hen Harrier population there between 2012-2016, densities of grouse varied between 60 and 120 per km2 over that time with adult survival rates of nearly 70%. That is many times the density of any Irish site currently, including as I pointed out earlier, large areas where Hen Harriers are absent. Indeed at such unnatural high densities, grouse on Langholm and other driven grouse moors have to be heavily medicated with special grit to stop periodic devastating outbreaks of disease related to this unnaturally high numbers, which is hardly a sustainable or a natural situation. In any case grouse at natural densities provide plenty of sport for rough shooting which is the traditional form of the sport in this country compared to the UK.

blackpearl

Cass wrote: »

Lets drop the word murder/murderer/murdered and anything other incarnation of the word.

Pine Marten do not murder. they don't drive around in a dark Chevvy van trying to pick up people off the streets. They are an animal. They do as they are ""programmed" to do by nature, instinct and thousands of years of evolution.

If you walked into a pheasant pen after killing vermin all year and found 100 or so birds killed by a pine martin what would you call that ?ah sure the poor animal was programmed to do it ,yea right whole scale slaughter thats what i would call it ,and before yous start no matter what you do to a pen to proof it the pine martin will still find a way in .

blackpearl

Birdnuts wrote: »

Langholm is a driven grouse moor where birds are maintained at many times their natural densities - and despite the presence of a large Hen Harrier population there between 2012-2016, densities of grouse varied between 60 and 120 per km2 over that time with adult survival rates of nearly 70%. That is many times the density of any Irish site currently, including as I pointed out earlier, large areas where Hen Harriers are absent. Indeed at such unnatural high densities, grouse on Langholm and other driven grouse moors have to be heavily medicated with special grit to stop periodic devastating outbreaks of disease related to this unnaturally high numbers, which is hardly a sustainable or a natural situation. In any case grouse at natural densities provide plenty of sport for rough shooting which is the traditional form of the sport in this country compared to the UK.

So what happened in 95-96 or was that a once of ,i hunted grouse years back over setters the cream of the cream of hunting only use them now for training dogs for trialing.

riffmongous

blackpearl wrote: »

If you walked into a pheasant pen after killing vermin all year and found 100 or so birds killed by a pine martin what would you call that ?ah sure the poor animal was programmed to do it ,yea right whole scale slaughter thats what i would call it ,and before yous start no matter what you do to a pen to proof it the pine martin will still find a way in .

You don't see any irony there do you?

blackpearl

No not a chance

Anybody know what is the ecological impact from the release into the environment of large numbers of clueless non-native birds each year?

Capercaillie

Deleted User wrote: »

Anybody know what is the ecological impact from the release into the environment of large numbers of clueless non-native birds each year?

Releasing large amounts of pheasants in an area with corncrake, quickly leads to a huge decline in corncrake.

blackpearl

Deleted User wrote: »

Anybody know what is the ecological impact from the release into the environment of large numbers of clueless non-native birds each year?

No problem their well tinned out after a couple of months ,what about sika deer and fallow deer they are non-native as well do some reserch on them as well.

blackpearl

Capercaillie wrote: »

Reading large amounts of pheasants in an area with corncrake, quickly leads to a huge decline in corncrake.

Not to mention releasing pinemartins would lead to a even bigger decline on corncrake numbers do you not agree.

Brian?

blackpearl wrote: »

answer the question and less of the playing around .

I'm not playing around. I've asked you repeatedly what you think the number of pine martens should be maintained at and you haven't answered. That's playing around.

You know full well I don't spend any time hunting or helping with pens. Because I told you in my first or second post I don't currently hunt. Asking me how much time I spend doing these things is playing around and deflection from the point.

You don't believe my opinions are as valid as yours because you put so much effort into hunting, I get it.

How many pine martens is too many?