NBA Regular Season 2016-17

NufcNavan

killwill wrote: »

Without it was exaggerated but was it a flop?
Even Klay Thompson said in his interview it was a hard foul.

Either way Warriors really should up and played like they haven't all season. Cannot see past them if they can keep playing like that

Arms flailing and a 250 pound man hitting the deck and staying down as if he was laid out by a linebacker. Pathetic.

brady23

I was just reading a piece ranking the top NBA sophomores, the top 3 look set for the moment anyway, especially 1 and 2 with Towns, Porzingis and Jokic.
Turner at 4 seems to be the consensus with Booker and Russell splitting the vote for 5.
Seems about right.

ButtersSuki

Lot of criticism for LeBron on the flop last night from players and media - not often you see this. EVEN Stephen A. Smith said it was acting on LeBron's part!
It was a foul, yes. A hard foul too. But not a flagrant. If it's any other player it's not a flagrant, total superstar call.

Surprisingly though he was also called for a travel in the game - the rarest thing in the NBA!

brady23

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Lot of criticism for LeBron on the flop last night from players and media - not often you see this. EVEN Stephen A. Smith said it was acting on LeBron's part!
It was a foul, yes. A hard foul too. But not a flagrant. If it's any other player it's not a flagrant, total superstar call.

Surprisingly though he was also called for a travel in the game - the rarest thing in the NBA!

It was definitely a flagrant 1, a flagrant 2 would have been unfair. Given current officiating, I would be very surprised to see a player not receive a flagrant 1 for attempting to go for the ball at the height Green did.

LeBron definitely used some gamesmanship and exaggerated, no doubts there but it wasn't just a normal foul, regardless of how LeBron reacted.

Also, what players criticised him?

ButtersSuki

brady23 wrote: »

It was definitely a flagrant 1, a flagrant 2 would have been unfair. Given current officiating, I would be very surprised to see a player not receive a flagrant 1 for attempting to go for the ball at the height Green did.

LeBron definitely used some gamesmanship and exaggerated, no doubts there but it wasn't just a normal foul, regardless of how LeBron reacted.

Also, what players criticised him?

I disagree. I don't think that was a flagrant. Again just my opinion. It's a hard foul sure but it's made look way worse by the dramatic interpretation given to us by the person on the receiving end. I've yet to hear any respected journalist in print or any other media say it deserved a flagrant 1. For once, the criticism is mainly on LeBron. As I said in my first post even the joke that is Stephen A. Smith criticised LeBron.

Can't post the links as I'm on the phone but (from memory) "lol Lebron" and #flop was trending on twitter and it was there I saw them. Reggie Miller was one - again from memory.

At what point does LeBron's "gamesmanship and exaggeration" as you call it earn him a T?

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I disagree. I don't think that was a flagrant. Again just my opinion. It's a hard foul sure but it's made look way worse by the dramatic interpretation given to us by the person on the receiving end. I've yet to hear any respected journalist in print or any other media say it deserved a flagrant 1. For once, the criticism is mainly on LeBron. As I said in my first post even the joke that is Stephen A. Smith criticised LeBron.

Can't post the links as I'm on the phone but (from memory) "lol Lebron" and #flop was trending on twitter and it was there I saw them. Reggie Miller was one - again from memory.

At what point does LeBron's "gamesmanship and exaggeration" as you call it earn him a T?

Irrespective of LeBrons theatrics, which were embarrasing to say the least, I think it was a flagrant all day. He made a meal of it once he was taken down obviously but he was pretty much tackled while on the fast break.

ButtersSuki

Gregk961 wrote: »

Irrespective of LeBrons theatrics, which were embarrasing to say the least, I think it was a flagrant all day. He made a meal of it once he was taken down obviously but he was pretty much tackled while on the fast break.

His post game comments of "I'm a football player" raised a few smiles. Soccer maybe, but not football. There's some funny LeBron flopping memes and gifs out on t'internet today....can't post as on phone but they're funny!

brady23

ButtersSuki wrote: »

brady23 wrote: »

It was definitely a flagrant 1, a flagrant 2 would have been unfair. Given current officiating, I would be very surprised to see a player not receive a flagrant 1 for attempting to go for the ball at the height Green did.

LeBron definitely used some gamesmanship and exaggerated, no doubts there but it wasn't just a normal foul, regardless of how LeBron reacted.

Also, what players criticised him?

I disagree. I don't think that was a flagrant. Again just my opinion. It's a hard foul sure but it's made look way worse by the dramatic interpretation given to us by the person on the receiving end. I've yet to hear any respected journalist in print or any other media say it deserved a flagrant 1. For once, the criticism is mainly on LeBron. As I said in my first post even the joke that is Stephen A. Smith criticised LeBron.

Can't post the links as I'm on the phone but (from memory) "lol Lebron" and #flop was trending on twitter and it was there I saw them. Reggie Miller was one - again from memory.

At what point does LeBron's "gamesmanship and exaggeration" as you call it earn him a T?

I haven't read or heard anything that would suggest it wasn't a flagrant 1, I can't see how you honestly could not call that a flagrant in this day and age, he cut across him on a fast break with his arm very high.

I think you're right, in certain situations reacting the way LeBron did does deserve a tech but in this case given it was a clear flagrant 1 as Green did connect very high on him, it's hard to T him up given he was fouled in a cynical manner.

I thought you meant current players not former.

LuckyLloyd

It was a Flagrant 1. But hopefully Green disagrees and tries more like it in the finals

brady23

I think either Jackson or Melo is on the way out the door in NY.
Jackson asked Melo if he "wants to be Knick" in other words "Would you consider waiving your no trade clause?"

If Jackson and Jennie Buss had not called off their engagement I would lean more towards Jackson leaving but given the change in his personal life, I feel he's more committed to stay now, he would be a very hard figure to fire.

If that's the case and Melo is on the way out, where does he go? A deal involving the Clippers would have been my pick but I'm not quite sure of the numbers.
The Kings are always a good place to ring as they're great at over paying.
Perhaps a deal to send him back to thr Nuggets or some sort of deal with Mavs or Bulls maybe.
I'd throw the Lakers in there but I think (hope) that Walton has enough influence to stop them trading their assets for Melo.

Just tried a trade and it worked

Knicks: Rudy Gay, Jahlil Okafor, Ben McLemore and Kings 1st round pick 2017

Kings: Melo

76ers: Brandon Jennings, Matt Barnes and Kings 2nd round pick

LuckyLloyd

I like that trade. Jennings is playing quite well and the 76ers need to start building out their guards and wings situation and he'd be a big improvement over what they've got right now.

Personally think the Knicks are in wait and see mode with short term blinkers on. Their next eight games are semi favourable - if they take six from that they might hang in and keep going for a playoff berth. Take four or less and they may blow it up - particularly if game nine goes as you might expect and they get stuffed by the Cavs on national TV.

High drama in MSG right now

brady23

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I like that trade. Jennings is playing quite well and the 76ers need to start building out their guards and wings situation and he'd be a big improvement over what they've got right now.

Personally think the Knicks are in wait and see mode with short term blinkers on. Their next eight games are semi favourable - if they take six from that they might hang in and keep going for a playoff berth. Take four or less and they may blow it up - particularly if game nine goes as you might expect and they get stuffed by the Cavs on national TV.

High drama in MSG right now

Rudy Gay gone now, feel bad for him contract year and all, starting to play pretty well, Achilles at his age is bad

LuckyLloyd

Also to address Melo specifically, I think he just likes it in NY, and is content being an NCAA / 3 Olympic Gold / 6 All NBA guy. It's his home state, it's his wife's home town. Him staying in NY may just be the best personal decision for him.

However, for the Knicks as a whole, getting Melo out of there for whatever assets can be grabbed; letting Rose go at the end of the year; reducing Noah's role and building around Staps at the 5 is the best path right now.

That said, it sounds like Melo is a good teammate and could be happy being a compliment to Staps. Ultimately Jackson made big moves in the offseason and what he put together isn't working (including the coach). He did pick Staps, but I'd ultimately shed no tears for his departure.

GoldFour4

Seems like the Knicks want rid of Melo badly and he just loves NYC and won't waive his no trade clause.

brady23

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Also to address Melo specifically, I think he just likes it in NY, and is content being an NCAA / 3 Olympic Gold / 6 All NBA guy. It's his home state, it's his wife's home town. Him staying in NY may just be the best personal decision for him.

However, for the Knicks as a whole, getting Melo out of there for whatever assets can be grabbed; letting Rose go at the end of the year; reducing Noah's role and building around Staps at the 5 is the best path right now.

That said, it sounds like Melo is a good teammate and could be happy being a compliment to Staps. Ultimately Jackson made big moves in the offseason and what he put together isn't working (including the coach). He did pick Staps, but I'd ultimately shed no tears for his departure.

I think get what you can for Melo and rebuild if he allows it. I think regardless of their struggles the NYK are such a huge franchise they'll always attract talent.

Trade Melo, let Rose walk, Noah's playing better and is what Porzingis needs, savvy and intelligent player who has unbelievable defensive knowledge and is a quality passer, I think he can learn alot from him. I wouldn't have made that deal but that could would make the most of the deal.

I would make sure I get a high 1st round pick for Melo no matter what. I wonder would Cuban give the Mavs pick for him.

TBF to Jackson, he did draft Porzingis and not everyone would have, I always wonder if given the opportunity what most GMs would have done for certain picks.
Where would Giannis have fallen to if not for the Bucks, Sam Bowie or Jordan. Durant or Oden. Take 2 of 3 Rubio, Flynn and Curry.
I just love the draft

nerd69

Doubt melo waves his no trade clause for any team that can give a high first if he's leaving NYC its to win a chip don't think many teams would give it for him anyway at his age with the way this draft class looks

NufcNavan

An absolute joke that Westbrook didn't make the All Star starters.

brady23

NufcNavan wrote: »

An absolute joke that Westbrook didn't make the All Star starters.

Exactly, what a joke, I like Steph and all but he's having a "down" year essentially. Westbrook and Harden should be first picks across both conferences

GoldFour4

Saw a stat that Westbrook has 2 more triple doubles than the All Star starters - what a joke.

NufcNavan

Pacers lose to the Lakers. This lack of defense and rebounding will prevent us from doing anything serious. We're like a more talented version of the Jim O'Brien teams.

But to be honest, we've never seen this widespread level of inconsistency across the league, and it's because of the huge increase in 3 point shooting. Almost everyone is live and die by the three, and it's hurting most teams.

brady23

I watched the Bucks vs Magic last night and Elfrid Payton is really starting to come on. He's averaging almost 16 points and 7 assists in his last 10 games. I think he can be a very good PG in the NBA, he's athletic, good defender. The shooting stroke was always the issue but he's improved, 2/3 from deep. FT shooting has gone from low 50s to high 60s and up as high as 75% in his last 10 games along with his usage.
I think he can be a top PG in a few years in the flying under the radar Lowry/Conley mould.

Gregk961

Watched both the overtime games last night, both very entertaining. Portland @ Celtics had a bit of everything. Worryingly for Boston they seem to be leaning on Isiah way too much lately, when he's not dropping his shots they seem to completly stagnate. Bradley back will certainly help but its obvious they need more to contend.

Spurs v Cavs was a great game aswell. Kawahi should still be in the MVP race if you ask me.

mixery

brady23 wrote: »

I watched the Bucks vs Magic last night and Elfrid Payton is really starting to come on. He's averaging almost 16 points and 7 assists in his last 10 games. I think he can be a very good PG in the NBA, he's athletic, good defender. The shooting stroke was always the issue but he's improved, 2/3 from deep. FT shooting has gone from low 50s to high 60s and up as high as 75% in his last 10 games along with his usage.
I think he can be a top PG in a few years in the flying under the radar Lowry/Conley mould.

Another impressive game from Payton today vs. Warriors! He moves around the court so well. But in general that Orlando team is trash and I can't see them improving with the current roster (I know they've some injuries, but it just doesn't look good)

K.O.Kiki

NufcNavan wrote: »

An absolute joke that Westbrook didn't make the All Star starters.

brady23 wrote: »

Exactly, what a joke, I like Steph and all but he's having a "down" year essentially. Westbrook and Harden should be first picks across both conferences

malistheman wrote: »

Saw a stat that Westbrook has 2 more triple doubles than the All Star starters - what a joke.

Warriors: 38-6
Rockets: 34-13
Thunder: 25-19

As good as his individual accolades are, his team sure isn't benefiting.

Gregk961

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Warriors: 38-6
Rockets: 34-13
Thunder: 25-19

As good as his individual accolades are, his team sure isn't benefiting.

Not one of Westbrooks starting 4 gets near the GSW bench though so the team records shouldnt really be a factor. Curry wins the fan vote because of pure bandwagon mania pure and simple.

brady23

mixery wrote: »

brady23 wrote: »

I watched the Bucks vs Magic last night and Elfrid Payton is really starting to come on. He's averaging almost 16 points and 7 assists in his last 10 games. I think he can be a very good PG in the NBA, he's athletic, good defender. The shooting stroke was always the issue but he's improved, 2/3 from deep. FT shooting has gone from low 50s to high 60s and up as high as 75% in his last 10 games along with his usage.
I think he can be a top PG in a few years in the flying under the radar Lowry/Conley mould.

Another impressive game from Payton today vs. Warriors! He moves around the court so well. But in general that Orlando team is trash and I can't see them improving with the current roster (I know they've some injuries, but it just doesn't look good)

I agree, they have made some horrific moves. Block up the front court on Gordon, now you're stuck with him playing SF and sharing the court with Vucevic, Ibaka and Biyombo.

Biyombo got so well paid after having a decent playoffs, I remember him having a lowest gravity rating in NBA a year or so ago as he's offensively sooooooo bad.

As things stand, I think I move Vucevic, Green and Ibaka. Green is one of those imaginary "lock down defenders" who actually a less than average defender. No one will take Biyombo, 17m a year. I really hoped Hezonja would come on but he seems to have stalled too.

Building around Payton and Gordon at PG with Fournier possibly coming off the bench.

On a more positive note the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the NBA, long may it continue.

ButtersSuki

Some real gate for GSW coming out in the player vote! Good feature on it in the Open Floor podcast (si.com).

Westbrook to get another All Star MVP would be a good bet IMO.

NufcNavan

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Warriors: 38-6
Rockets: 34-13
Thunder: 25-19

As good as his individual accolades are, his team sure isn't benefiting.

What a stupid argument that is.

K.O.Kiki

NufcNavan wrote: »

What a stupid argument that is.

You can have all the stats in the world, it doesn't mean a damn if your TEAM doesn't win games.

MJ had 37ppg in 86-87, first player with 200 steals + 100 blocks in a season.

Lost 0-3 to the Celtics in the first round.

Gregk961

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

You can have all the stats in the world, it doesn't mean a damn if your TEAM doesn't win games.

MJ had 37ppg in 86-87, first player with 200 steals + 100 blocks in a season.

Lost 0-3 to the Celtics in the first round.

The All star picks ARE about individual excellence though and not anything to do with team results.