Spencer 1860 reproductions?

Kuilis

Hi folks just wondering are Spencer 1860 repros easy to get around here, or do not many retailers deal in them in Ireland/UK region? I heard Chiappa does reproductions of them but I haven't been able to find much on price and whatnot. Anyone know what they usually go for and what would be some good places to look for them?

gunny123

No dealer is going to have money tied up in a rifle like this, as the chances of someone wandering through the door wanting one is slim to nil. It not a design thats really any use for any of the shooting sports i can think of, eg. F-class or gallery, its also restricted due to calibre.

Whatever about getting the rifle, can you get ammo for it ? If you are in the republic reloading is currently verboten, and likely to remain so i would think.

Kuilis

gunny123 wrote: »

its also restricted due to calibre.

Whatever about getting the rifle, can you get ammo for it ? If you are in the republic reloading is currently verboten, and likely to remain so i would think.

Well from what I heard the repros are made in other calibres besides the old Spencer rounds, for example in .45 LC or .44-40. So not impossible to find ammo for them.

gunny123

Kuilis wrote: »

Well from what I heard the repros are made in other calibres besides the old Spencer rounds, for example in .45 LC or .44-40. So not impossible to find ammo for them.

Well .45lc must be available because i've seen revolvers here in that calibre.

tac foley

@OP - are you a member of a gun club of any kind? If so, does anybody there shoot antique-style firearms - real or replica? If so, you are more likely to get the skinny from them as to how they persuaded the local super that the only way that they could pursue their shooting sport was by licensing a firearm like this rather than something less esoteric.

Ownership of a gun like this - with no obvious rationale for ownership other than the fact that they are a real hoot to shoot - comes under the heading of a 'fun-shooter', a concept that seems to get right up the noses of some superintendents. I know for a fact that we would welcome you with open arms into the VCRAI with something like this to see at An Rioch, but alas, the VCRAI is an association and not a gun club.

Meanwhile - watch Mike Beliveau, the BP maven from the magazine 'Guns of the Old West' shooting his -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwhLuhRWYyI

V. cool, eh?

tac

Kuilis

Cheers I've seen that video
Unfortunately I don't know anyone who's in to shooting these kind of historical guns which is why I thought I'd ask here. Like you I heard some supers can be a bit so-so about "fun guns" so I'm trying to suss out if anyone in Ireland has bought/owned a gun like that to see if it'd be worth investing in one myself.

tac foley

I've got the impression over the last few years here that 'fun' and 'gun' are words that don't go together on your side of the water.

Still, you'll never know if you don't try, right?

Join a club?

That's the first thing to do, right?

Just had a thought - centre-fire handgun ammunition? How easy is THAT to get where you are? With a dearth of centre-fire handguns these days, I guess that only the gallery rifle/carbine folks are likely to need that kind of fodder, and they are .357/.38 Spec for the most part, rather than .45LC or .44-40.

tac

Kuilis

Still trying to figure that out. Was hoping opening this thread might attract someone whose dealt with that kind of ammo in historic guns. The only suppliers I know offhand are all in the states.
The more I look in to this the more it seems folks here just don't have enough interest in that type of thing to warrant it being on shelves so to speak. But if anyone knows different I'd love to hear I'm wrong and that there's some dealer in Ireland who stocks it...

tac foley

I think you'll have to accept that shooting historic guns, genuine or replica, is not something that happens anywhere in the Republic of Ireland. The shooters of underlever carbines who take part in gallery comps undoubtedly have access to .357 Mag/.38 Spec ammunition, but right now they are staying away from this thread. And while there might be a few .38/357cal revolvers still around for target shooting, I'm fast getting the impression that there is not a single .44 or .45cal handgun in the country.

tac

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

I'm fast getting the impression that there is not a single .44 or .45cal handgun in the country.

tac

There have been, but with the double impact of the gardai getting centrefire handgun numbers capped, and a very severe recession, they might not be around any longer. I did fire a ruger super redhawk in .454c, not with .454 ammo, but .45lc ammo, so someone was stocking that calibre.

Anyway a ring around the dealers will soon tell you if there is any on the shelves or will they bring it in for you.

Grizzly 45

A bit OT.But if you couldn't get a Spencer.Would a Sharps rifle do anything for you? I see Chiappa in Italy are now even making a Sharps repro in .22lr,and they make a diverse bunch of calibers for them as well.

gunny123

Before you order anything chiappa, have a look at one of their products. I seen one of their m1 carbines and was less than impressed with it, a lot of pot metal and plastic, and a very plain stock, stained beech if i remember correctly. I have heard very unenthusiastic reviews of their pistols too.

Grizzly 45

Guess they are built for countries where "fun " and "guns" in the same sentence isn't considered a social taboo by government and police. If it breaks ,go back to the dealer and get it repaired and replaced within a week or so under warranty.Not like here where it is the 13th task of Herclus to get anything replaced or fixed gun related.:rolleyes:

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Guess they are built for countries where "fun " and "guns" in the same sentence isn't considered a social taboo by government and police. If it breaks ,go back to the dealer and get it repaired and replaced within a week or so under warranty.Not like here where it is the 13th task of Herclus to get anything replaced or fixed gun related.:rolleyes:

Yup, getting anything here is a trial by ordeal.

Kuilis

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A bit OT.But if you couldn't get a Spencer.Would a Sharps rifle do anything for you? I see Chiappa in Italy are now even making a Sharps repro in .22lr,and they make a diverse bunch of calibers for them as well.

Ah cheers hadn't heard they made those. I wonder if the Sharps being single-shot rather than a repeater would make it any easier to get permission from the blues...
Still love the Spencer but you've given me something to think about now.

gunny123 wrote: »

Before you order anything chiappa, have a look at one of their products. I seen one of their m1 carbines and was less than impressed with it, a lot of pot metal and plastic, and a very plain stock, stained beech if i remember correctly. I have heard very unenthusiastic reviews of their pistols too.

Thanks for the heads up. Don't know too much about Chiappa myself but they're the only European ones I heard of that made Spencer repros.

gunny123

Kuilis wrote: »

Ah cheers hadn't heard they made those. I wonder if the Sharps being single-shot rather than a repeater would make it any easier to get permission from the blues...
Still love the Spencer but you've given me something to think about now.



Thanks for the heads up. Don't know too much about Chiappa myself but they're the only European ones I heard of that made Spencer repros.

I have a ruger no.1 falling block single shot, the blues were as slow to issue a cert for that as anything else. Chiappa, are or were known as armi sport in the usa, it might be worth your while asking on some of the american forums what they think of that brand.
What else would interest you ?

tac foley

Well, Sir, I've shot not only the Pedersoli .22cal Sharps, called the 'Benchrest' model by them, but the Chiappa .22 and .357Mag versions, too.

Not only are both of them totally devoid of plastic in any form, but the wood on the 'Little Sharps', as it's called by Chiappa, made the Pedersoli wood, at almost double the price, look pretty sick.

You really would have to want one of these little guns - the Pedersoli version is around the 2000eu mark, and the Chiappa around 1400eu or so.

Give Henry Krank a call for the latest UK prices- they are likely to be a lot easier to deal with than any US dealer is.

You can see them both on Youtube, with a bit of searching - capandball is shooting the benchrest Pedersoli [he is the Hungarian importer for Pedersoli, and shoot their guns in the World Championships, too, as well as being Hungary's #1 BP shooter].

You still haven't told us if you have joined, or already are, in a gun club. All of this stuff we are telling you is fog and mist if you are not.

tac

Kuilis

Hi tac no I'm not yet in a gun club over here. I've been doing a bit of asking around trying to find any that are near enough to me (Dublin) that might have some kindred spirits interested in historical firearms. At the moment all I was trying to do with this thread is suss out what prices and availability are for something like the Spencer repros and ammo. Depending on what sort of shooting club I end up joining I might be able to get some help re: importing/licensing.

tac foley

As far as I am aware, there is probably no gun club, as such, in ALL of the country. I've mentioned that the Vintage Classic Rifle Association of Ireland is THE historical shooting organisation, but it is not a club. They shoot principally on the ranges at An Rioch in Co. Kerry. Membership of such an organisation in advance of your application would probably be a good tick in the box to have, depending on your home county force views on firearms of any kind, that is.

Contact details of the association may be found on their website - www.vcrai.com.

I've advised you of the likely minimal cost of these firearms, to which you have to add -

1. Gun club membership.

2. Cost of licensing.

3. Storage and alarming of premises.

4. Ammunition.

5. Travelling to go shoot it.

6. Sundry necessaries like a shooting mat, spotting scope and cleaning/maintenance supplies et al.

tac

PS - I note from your syntax that you are probably Latvian [your 'name' means 'wild boar'] - this might prove problematical in getting a license in the RoI unless you are a permanent resident, maybe on a voting register or whatever it is of that kind in the Republic. Perhaps other furriners here can offer some assistance in this matter?

Kuilis

Thanks tac really appreciate your advice on this. Yes you're right about me not being Irish. Youse can probably see I'm quite a novice on gun ownership here, though I'm no stranger to guns of the Spener's time period I've got a lot of homework still to do re: owning one here. I've already spoken to a couple fellows re: gunsafes and what's usually required in the Dublin area. Didn't consider the foreign citizenship possibly being a problem, though I am a permanent resident here. As far as ammo I only know of US dealers who regularly carry cartridges like .44-40. I'll keep searching to see if it's a practical calibre this side of the pond.

tac foley

Here in UK, and the rest of Europe, there is no cartridge made that is not common. .44-40 might not be as common as .44Spec, but three of my local gunstores have it on the shelves for the lever-action crowd.

To my knowledge there are no competitions of any kind for it as a handgun cartridge. Wanting it to shoot in a replica military arm from the beginning of the WoNA may be beyond the comprehension of your local Garda superintendent. But then you cannot know until you ask.

From what I've read here, Harbour House Club/ranges seems to be your next port of call to git somethin' done, even if it is only talking to people about your hopes and aspirations.

You might ask a dealer up in the North about ammunition or even getting the rifle itself? Always supposing that they would do it, it would still be a PITA exercise to get it into the RoI via your local friendly dealer. I suggest that you give John Callaghan in Naul [Fingal Sports] a call - maybe go see him and have a chat.

Tell him I sent you.

tac

gunny123

If you are near Dublin, join Nitsa up across the border in Newry. Its only an hour up the road now with the good roads. They are building (so i am told) an 800 metre outdoor centrefire range, a 200 meter indoor range, as well as that they have practical pistol area, also up there the firearms situation is far better than down here. The police are far easier to deal with as a lot of the police are shooters themselves. Also there is none of this restricted/non restricted rubbish. You can either have it or you cannot. Centrefire pistols ? yes. Semi-auto centrefire rifles ? no. No "restriction" with calibre afaik, probably until you get up to artillery sizes.

Everything here is usually difficult with firearms licencing, the ptb don't want anyone having them, and make dealing with them so irksome.

tac foley

Rifled firearms in the UK are 'limited' to 20mm, BTW.

However, to own any firearm in Northern Ireland you must have residency........................

Hmmmmmmmmm.

tac

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

Rifled firearms in the UK are 'limited' to 20mm, BTW.

However, to own any firearm in Northern Ireland you must have residency........................

Hmmmmmmmmm.

tac

Dang, i had my heart set on a 40mm bofors :mad:.

Kuilis

Much thanks again lads!

tac foley

We DO try and be as helpish as we can, even when it seems that the OP is fighting for a lost cause, or trying herd cats.

Tell you what - when you get your Spencer, I'll come over and we'll shoot my Sniders and your Spencer on the same range.

tac

Kuilis

I appreciate youse taking the time to help me out, even if this idea seems to be shipping a lot of water...
Sounds like a good idea tac! I'll hold you to that.

gunny123

Kuilis wrote: »

Much thanks again lads!

Have you looked at uberti's website ? They do a rolling block in calibres such as .17, .22lr, .22 mag, .30-30, that are not restricted. One of those would be relatively easy to licence for target shooting. In the case of the .30-30, it would be deer legal too.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

Centrefire pistols ? yes. Semi-auto centrefire rifles ? no. No "restriction" with calibre afaik, probably until you get up to artillery sizes.

Everything here is usually difficult with firearms licencing, the ptb don't want anyone having them, and make dealing with them so irksome.

Do the PSNI suffer from Idontlikethelookofthatnowitis in regards straight pull,pump action or MARS rifles that are black in colour and have very dangerous pistol grips,tactical thingies , deadly folding stocks and huge mag capacities?:)

tac foley

Nope.

tac

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Do the PSNI suffer from Idontlikethelookofthatnowitis in regards straight pull,pump action or MARS rifles that are black in colour and have very dangerous pistol grips,tactical thingies , deadly folding stocks and huge mag capacities?:)

Absolutely not Grizz, i really don't understand the obsession the ptb have with the appearance of firearms here. Do they think black plastic is the work of the devil ?

That having been said, i do like the look of these

http://www.young-guns.org.uk/products/m1-carbine-30-cal-straight-pull-rifles/

tac foley

If you like them, take a look at Southern Gun Company [SGC], based on Bodmin Moor Cornwall. Be aware, though, that straight-pull firearms of any kind are very costy, and only for UK-based buyers due to the rather odd firearms laws over here.

Apart from Bob at SGC, there are other folks here on mainland UK who can provide UK-legal versions of

1. M1 Garand.

2. Any of the AR variants.

3. AK variants.

4. Dragunov sharpshooter rifles with wood/plastic rigid or folding stocks.

5. M1 carbine

6. FAL in .308Win OR .22RF.

7. Lewis Machine Tool [the BA's current designated marksman rifle] in .308Win or .22RF.

Also available as lever release are various models of AR [SGC again] usually in 9mm Para, and the Czech VZ58 in .223 Remington/7.62x39 Sov,

All are currently UK Section 1 firearms, and can be owned by anybody with a Section 1 FAC as a target rifle.

No other restriction - magazine capacity as big as is actually made. Bipods? Forend hand grips? Lasers? Night Sights - if applicable to your 'good reason' for possession? Red dots? Holo sights? Not a problem.

See them all on Youtube, many being shot as part of the CSR [Civilian Service Rifle] competitions.

tac

Grizzly 45

You could also have a look at Lantac in the UK. They are SGC competitors,but I dunno if they are doing the MARS system yet.Seeing that these are bespoke rifles I guess they will cost abit more.

tac foley

Ah yes, Lantac. Wonderful stuff, just be rich.

tac