Cannabis/Hemp Products/Medicinal/Legal

K.Flyer

Bumping this thread with some interesting news...

Cork toddler, 2, gets cannabis oil permit for epilepsy treatment

A two-year-old boy from west Cork with a rare form of epilepsy has become the first person in the country (Ireland) to be granted a licence allowing him to be treated with cannabis.

Tristan Forde, from Dunmanway, used to have up to 20 seizures a day caused by a rare form of epilepsy but his daily seizures have virtually stopped since he began taking cannabis oil.

philstar

bought a hemp bar at a health store today anyone have them before??

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

Bumping this thread with some interesting news...

Cork toddler, 2, gets cannabis oil permit for epilepsy treatment

So with this permit and Sativex also avaliable (according to the HPRA website ) the bill by G Kenny is now redundant? Cannabinoid based medicine is already available in this country.

K.Flyer

jh79 wrote: »

So with this permit and Sativex also avaliable (according to the HPRA website ) the bill by G Kenny is now redundant? Cannabinoid based medicine is already available in this country.

Would she have been granted the license had the bill not been raised and not opposed, and more awareness brought to peoples attention?
I would be interested in more details regarding exactly what oil she is getting (thc / cbd ratio)- how it has been produced and how she takes it. Although I imagine they are having it sent over from Colorado as they have already worked out her dosage requirements.
Either way, in my opinion, its a step in the right direction and hopefully more people around the country will now be able to avail of it.

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

Would she have been granted the license had the bill not been raised and not opposed, and more awareness brought to peoples attention?
I would be interested in more details regarding exactly what oil she is getting (thc / cbd ratio)- how it has been produced and how she takes it. Although I imagine they are having it sent over from Colorado as they have already worked out her dosage requirements.
Either way, in my opinion, its a step in the right direction and hopefully more people around the country will now be able to avail of it.

Doubt that will keep most on here happy but this is likely to be the extent of medical marijuana in this country.

K.Flyer

jh79 wrote: »

Doubt that will keep most on here happy but this is likely to be the extent of medical marijuana in this country.

Why should it be?
Now at least its a public acknowledgement of its use in a medical situation.
Obviously this family tried everything available in Ireland to no avail before having to take the drastic steps that they did to go to Colorado.
The childs medical team are impressed with his progress as well as his GP.
Would you accept that it has now been proven to be a viable treatment for certain conditions?

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

Why should it be?
Now at least its a public acknowledgement of its use in a medical situation.
Obviously this family tried everything available in Ireland to no avail before having to take the drastic steps that they did to go to Colorado.
The childs medical team are impressed with his progress as well as his GP.
Would you accept that it has now been proven to be a viable treatment for certain conditions?

God no, it is antedocal evidence the lowest type and you wouldn't accept similar quality evidence of adverse effects.

There is a study in progress i'll wait for that.

I only found out recently that weed (natural state) is not considered medicine in the US either. You don't get a prescription but a letter of refferal , the FDA still maintain that weed has no benefits.

Gino Kenny obviously was aware of this and wanted a new quango set up to over see it. The minister insists the HPRA will be in charge and it's unlikely they will be any different to the FDA. If standards are lowered , and they would have to be , then the pharma industry will expect the lower standards would also apply to them too. That's not going to happen.

ScumLord

philstar wrote: »

bought a hemp bar at a health store today anyone have them before??

No but hemp seed is one of those super food seeds aparently. You can buy them in just about any supermarket.

theValheru853

Pity the little cork girls mother is out in front of the Dail tonight (according to the journal).

Apparently when Minister Harris met with her, he told her there was nothing he could do until the bill got passed. It may have passed the lower house but still needs to get by the Seanad and the President.

He could have at least had the cop on to realise that he could offer a ministerial dispensation ifhe had reviewed the case properly.

jh79

Most marijuana medicinal benefits are inconclusive, wide-ranging study finds

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/12/marijuana-study-benefits-chemotherapy-pain-multiple-sclerosis?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

theValheru853

However, it is hard to ignore that it must have some benefits.

I saw on TV3 news tonight that the little girl in Cork has seen a dramatic improvement in the amount of seizures that she is getting due to the Charlotte's Web.

Imagine how much of an improvement there would be if she could get access to the proper medicinal CBD? Wouldn't it be worth it to try it?

It may not be suitable to every medical condition, but the proof is in the pudding as the saying goes.

kleefarr

theValheru853 wrote: »

However, it is hard to ignore that it must have some benefits.

I saw on TV3 news tonight that the little girl in Cork has seen a dramatic improvement in the amount of seizures that she is getting due to the Charlotte's Web.

Imagine how much of an improvement there would be if she could get access to the proper medicinal CBD? Wouldn't it be worth it to try it?

It may not be suitable to every medical condition, but the proof is in the pudding as the saying goes.

There is no difference between cannabis and medical cannabis. It is all the same, just different strengths and strains.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

Most marijuana medicinal benefits are inconclusive, wide-ranging study finds

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/12/marijuana-study-benefits-chemotherapy-pain-multiple-sclerosis?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2017/Cannabis-Health-Effects/cannabis-chapter-highlights.pdf?_ga=1.145711028.1690590092.1484308624

Above is a link to a summary of the report;

The therapeutic effects of cannabis include;

Oral cannabinoids reduce chemo induced nausea / vomiting

Short term use of oral cannabinoids reduces MS symptoms.

Clinically significant reduction in chronic pain symptoms

The three uses above only show a modest effect.

And that's it.

seamus

jh79 wrote: »

http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2017/Cannabis-Health-Effects/cannabis-chapter-highlights.pdf?_ga=1.145711028.1690590092.1484308624

Above is a link to a summary of the report;

The therapeutic effects of cannabis include;

Oral cannabinoids reduce chemo induced nausea / vomiting

Short term use of oral cannabinoids reduces MS symptoms.

Clinically significant reduction in chronic pain symptoms

The three uses above only show a modest effect.

And that's it.

To be fair though, easing of pain in chronic pain sufferers is the one that's most often put forward.
Other Jesus-like effects are sometimes mentioned, but they're the not primary reason people are so vocal about legalisation from what I can see. Pain relief is the big one, and these studies support the legalisation of cannabis for this purpose, even if the effects are "modest".

ScumLord

jh79 wrote: »

http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2017/Cannabis-Health-Effects/cannabis-chapter-highlights.pdf?_ga=1.145711028.1690590092.1484308624

Above is a link to a summary of the report;

The therapeutic effects of cannabis include;

Oral cannabinoids reduce chemo induced nausea / vomiting

Short term use of oral cannabinoids reduces MS symptoms.

Clinically significant reduction in chronic pain symptoms

The three uses above only show a modest effect.

And that's it.

There is a point to be made about the type of pain relief cannabis brings. It's not like stronger pain meds like morphine that completely removes the pain. With cannabis pain relief you can still feel the pain, it just doesn't bother you as much, it turns it down more than turns it off. So in comparison to other pain meds that would seem like a less effective pain relief.

I think it has benefits though. First of all cannabis is going to have milder side effects and I also think that being able to feel the pain means you're still able to use pains damage control effects. Pain is there for a reason, it's a warning light that we shouldn't be able to completely ignore.

Seanachai

ScumLord wrote: »

There is a point to be made about the type of pain relief cannabis brings. It's not like stronger pain meds like morphine that completely removes the pain. With cannabis pain relief you can still feel the pain, it just doesn't bother you as much, it turns it down more than turns it off. So in comparison to other pain meds that would seem like a less effective pain relief.

I think it has benefits though. First of all cannabis is going to have milder side effects and I also think that being able to feel the pain means you're still able to use pains damage control effects. Pain is there for a reason, it's a warning light that we shouldn't be able to completely ignore.

There seems to be a greater scope to ease different types of pain with the different strains of cannabis, some patients report poor relief from traditional painkillers. Patients will try a strain, find it ineffective and then find that another strain suits their own makeup better and allows them to function better than they do on opiates etc. I think that's the key, they can accept that they may have to live with a certain amount of pain for the rest of their life. But if they have access to a substance that can reduce symptoms enough so that they're not taking up their thoughts all day long then it can vastly improve their quality of life. In the absence of a cure, this can make a huge difference in somebodies life.

jh79

https://www.nap.edu/login.php?record_id=24625&page=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nap.edu%2Fdownload%2F24625

The full report can be downloaded from the above link, log in as a guest.

So what do people think ? Are ye surprised at the lack of evidence of medicinal benefits?

I'll read through the report soon, particularly stuff about the immune system, kidneys, joints, heart, liver, lungs, brain and skin.

Never really throught about cannabis for my girlfriend's lupus but from a quick Google search, it apparently helps a lot. Would be a whole lot better than the mad side effects of what she currently uses.

ScumLord

jh79 wrote: »

So what do people think ?

What do we think of what specifically though? It's a big report and aint nobody got time for that.

jh79

ScumLord wrote: »

What do we think of what specifically though? It's a big report and aint nobody got time for that.

Are the risks associated with mental health worth the modest effect seen against neuropathic pain?

Can we really say it is a safer alternative?

theValheru853

As far as I know, there is a difference between cannabis and medical cannabis, or rather CBD oils, in that the compounds that give the "high" are removed.

As for the risk to benefits of use of medical cannabis, I would presume it would need to be judged on a case by case basis and what conditions it would be used for

ohnonotgmail

jh79 wrote: »

Are the risks associated with mental health worth the modest effect seen against neuropathic pain?

Can we really say it is a safer alternative?

you are exaggerating the mental health problems associated with cannabis use.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/problems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabis.aspx

InTheTrees

jh79 wrote: »

Are the risks associated with mental health worth the modest effect seen against neuropathic pain?

Can we really say it is a safer alternative?

I think it should be legalised completely. Full recreational.

People who would like to grow a Charlottes Web strain and see if it helps them can do so then.

learn_more

ScumLord wrote: »

There is a point to be made about the type of pain relief cannabis brings. It's not like stronger pain meds like morphine that completely removes the pain. With cannabis pain relief you can still feel the pain, it just doesn't bother you as much, it turns it down more than turns it off. So in comparison to other pain meds that would seem like a less effective pain relief.

I don't get your problem with that though. If the pain doesn't bother you then surely that's a satisfactory solution. That's the whole point of any kind of relief medicine. None of them are going to cure the problem, but make you 'feel' okay. And as you say it has milder side effects.

kleefarr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImkTPISCfTE

learn_more

I voted for medical use only.

The reason is because of my personal experience of consuming it myself and especially my experience of friends of mine who smoke it on a regular basis.

All drugs are mind bending, including alcohol, but the difference for me with alcohol is that it's mind bending effects are largely manifest when one is drunk, and it's effects are gone when one wakes up with a hangover.

I think that the mind-bending effects of cannabis ( on a regular basis, not just weekend house party), don't just stop when you wake up the next morning but follow through to your daily life. One regular cannabis user friend of mine, who yes I admit is fully functional, changed personality quite significantly.

I wish that wasn't the case, I'm not a party pooper. But I believe that the effects on ones mind is the most serious worry re taking drugs, more so than the effects of one's lungs from smoking, or the effects on ones liver from drinking.

I wish that wasn't the case but I do believe it is the case. I don't have any proof of this but as I said earlier, I'm talking from personal experience. I have no problem with anyone taking drugs on moral grounds. How could I, I used to be a drug user in my 20's but I gave them up completely precisely because of what I understood as it's mind bending effects on my mind taking them weekly, outside of the time that I was high on them.

I used to suffer from paranoia as a result of drug taking, and I though I would never get over it. Even after I gave them up for good. But to my surprise I did get over it. Totally. It took a few years of being healthy and living a clean life and once I sorted myself out I was able to go back to drinking at the weekends without feeling anxiety and paranoia.

I'm really glad that cannabis is not something I can just go down to the shops to buy. I really worry how many ppl would get addicted to it if it were.

jh79

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are exaggerating the mental health problems associated with cannabis use.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/problems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabis.aspx

Am I? The latest report seems quite certain there is a link with schizophrenia and suicidal thoughts especially with daily use.

Is that risk worth a "modest" effect on neuropathic pain?

jh79

InTheTrees wrote: »

I think it should be legalised completely. Full recreational.

People who would like to grow a Charlottes Web strain and see if it helps them can do so then.

So do I but Gino Kenny et al want it treated as medicine so certain standards of evidence are now required.

jh79

kleefarr wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImkTPISCfTE

That oil is available if the proper procedures are followed as proven by the boy in Cork who got a licence , strange situation that.

pure.conya

jh79 wrote: »

Am I? The latest report seems quite certain there is a link with schizophrenia and suicidal thoughts especially with daily use.

Is that risk worth a "modest" effect on neuropathic pain?

There is a very low risk to using cannabis, compared to the already legal pain meds out there, the damage they do to liver and kidneys, their crazy side effects and the debilitating addictions that come with using them for more than a few days.

I refuse to believe a report that comes out of the same country that has just scheduled cbd as having no apparent medical value while England just officially acknowledged its got medical value.

All the evidence I've ever read has been very positive regarding the immediate pain relief obtained from using cannabis.