Cannabis/Hemp Products/Medicinal/Legal

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

1999 is when the latest study was done from the link you posted

I don't know what you are reading but i've checked again and the report includes studies up to 2016.

So have you a genuine reason to dismiss this report is that really the best you've got?

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

Is this only showing this "study" to be a review of existing evidence based on only 2 scripts from 1982 and 1999?,Hardly up to date evidence if so!!!!

Where did you get 1982 and 1999 from ?

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

Section 12-1

I asked for a recent alternative study to show the same conclusion-

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

Where did you get 1982 and 1999 from ?

http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2017/Cannabis-Health-Effects/Cannabis-public-release-slides.pdf

(showing those two scripts as the study context)

flazio

I am voting "legalise" but I'd prefer to see it taken by ingestion over smoking.
Quite rightly, smoking is getting more and more marginalised with indoor bans, graphic logo less packaging etc, and to just introduce a new form of legal smoking would seem to be a backwards step.
Personally, I'd love to see healthy humans able to live day to day without the need for stimulants or depressants but that'll never happen so....

mulbot

flazio wrote: »

I am voting "legalise" but I'd prefer to see it taken by ingestion over smoking.
Quite rightly, smoking is getting more and more marginalised with indoor bans, graphic logo less packaging etc, and to just introduce a new form of legal smoking would seem to be a backwards step.
Personally, I'd love to see healthy humans able to live day to day without the need for stimulants or depressants but that'll never happen so....

Agree 100%

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2017/Cannabis-Health-Effects/Cannabis-public-release-slides.pdf

(showing those two scripts as the study context)

They were the previous reviews ! For background reading.

The review is bang up to date.

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

They were the previous reviews ! For background reading.

The review is back up to date.

Well it clearly states the context for the study as those 2 scripts. Can you show some additional information regarding other studies used.

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

Well it clearly states the context for the study as those 2 scripts. Can you show some additional information regarding other studies used.

All studies up to 2016 were assessed.

The full report is available for free on the website you just need to provide an email address. I provided the link already.

mulbot

jh79 wrote: »

All studies up to 2016 were assessed.

The full report is available for free on the website you just need to provide an email address. I provided the link already.

What other studies,I looked at the full report,it doesn't show any additional studies,or I just can't find them.Can you link to one maybe?

jh79

mulbot wrote: »

What other studies,I looked at the full report,it doesn't show any additional studies,or I just can't find them.Can you link to one maybe?

You're reading the highlights the full near 400 page report has references included.

I'll stick up the link as soon as I can.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

https://www.nap.edu/login.php?record_id=24625&page=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nap.edu%2Fdownload%2F24625

The full report can be downloaded from the above link, log in as a guest.

So what do people think ? Are ye surprised at the lack of evidence of medicinal benefits?

Here you go.

Seanachai

jh79 wrote: »

Am I? The latest report seems quite certain there is a link with schizophrenia and suicidal thoughts especially with daily use.

Is that risk worth a "modest" effect on neuropathic pain?

I'd like to see studies done specifically with the strains that have very low THC or a low THC to CBD ratio. In relation to the question of a possible increased risk of developing mental illness vs pain relief, in cases where a patient is in a desperate situation or may not even have a long lifespan, I think that's a decision that they should be free to make themselves.

jh79

Seanachai wrote: »

I'd like to see studies done specifically with the strains that have very low THC or a low THC to CBD ratio. In relation to the question of a possible increased risk of developing mental illness vs pain relief, in cases where a patient is in a desperate situation or may not even have a long lifespan, I think that's a decision that they should be free to make themselves.

For the 3 illnesses it has been shown to have a modest effect

Oral cannabinoids reduce chemo induced nausea / vomiting

Depends on the cancer and likely survival rate but for a treatable cancer with a good prognosis is reducing vomiting really worth the risk of Schizophrenia? Depends also how long the chemo is for too.

Short term use of oral cannabinoids reduces MS symptoms.

Short term use only so no problems here.

Clinically significant reduction in chronic pain symptoms

Big questions marks here too, chronic pain would require daily smoking and as the research shows the greater the use the greater the risk of schizophrenia. I think only a GP/Regulator could answer this question.

Seanachai

jh79 wrote: »

For the 3 illnesses it has been shown to have a modest effect

Oral cannabinoids reduce chemo induced nausea / vomiting

Depends on the cancer and likely survival rate but for a treatable cancer with a good prognosis is reducing vomiting really worth the risk of Schizophrenia? Depends also how long the chemo is for too.

Short term use of oral cannabinoids reduces MS symptoms.

Short term use only so no problems here.

Clinically significant reduction in chronic pain symptoms

Big questions marks here too, chronic pain would require daily smoking and as the research shows the greater the use the greater the risk of schizophrenia. I think only a GP/Regulator could answer this question.

I get those points, I was suggesting that the difference between strains of Cannabis can be like the difference between drinking three beers on a Friday night and drinking three whiskeys every night. I'd be interested to know what strain(s) they used in the studies. There is evidence that CBD can curtail the negative mental side-effects of THC, a strain like Harelquin for example may produce much less issues than if they used a high THC sativa strain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3797438/

jh79

Seanachai wrote: »

I get those points, I was suggesting that the difference between strains of Cannabis can be like the difference between drinking three beers on a Friday night and drinking three whiskeys every night. I'd be interested to know what strain(s) they used in the studies. There is evidence that CBD can curtail the negative mental side-effects of THC, a strain like Harelquin for example may produce much less issues than if they used a high THC sativa strain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3797438/

By the same token maybe the positive effects depend on the strain so if Harlequin did lessen the risk you would need to show that this strain still maintained the modest pain relief observed in the neuropathic pain studies.

jh79

pure.conya wrote: »

I refuse to believe a report that comes out of the same country that has just scheduled cbd as having no apparent medical value while England just officially acknowledged its got medical value.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mhra-statement-on-products-containing-cannabidiol-cbd

The uk has not said it has medical value they say it is being used as medicine and therefore is to be treated as such.

CBD can only be sold in the UK with approval from the MHRA which requires clinical trials to prove efficacy and safety. It is now illegal to sell CBD oil in the uk.

According to this forum the CBD industry has been destroyed.

https://www.ukchemicalresearch.org/Thread-MHRA-Just-destroyed-the-UK-CBD-industry

K.Flyer

So the MHRA in the UK are saying that it is a medicine and acknowledging it as a medicine.
And now that it is being classified as a medicine it needs to be controlled.
In other words, you now need a prescription from your doctor.

www.gov.uk CBD Oil Statement.

An MHRA spokesperson said:
"We have come to the opinion that products containing cannabidiol (CBD) used for medical purposes are a medicine."
[...]
"Our primary concern is patient safety and we wish to reiterate that individuals using cannabidiol (CBD) products to treat or manage the symptoms of medical conditions should discuss their treatment with their doctor."

"MHRA will now work with individual companies and trade bodies in relation to making sure products containing CBD, used for a medical purpose, which can be classified as medicines, satisfy the legal requirements of the Human Medicines Regulations 2012."

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

So the MHRA in the UK are saying that it is a medicine and acknowledging it as a medicine.
And now that it is being classified as a medicine it needs to be controlled.
In other words, you now need a prescription from your doctor.

www.gov.uk CBD Oil Statement.

If it gets a licence. None have so far so all CBD oil is illegal atm.

jh79

From the same link

"companies now have until 31 December 2016 to voluntarily operate within the law, by withdrawing their existing products from the market, or working with MHRA to satisfy the legal requirements of the Human Medicines Regulations 2012."

K.Flyer

All that means is that it is not available over the counter anymore, but can be available on prescription.
The same way as they took St. Johns Wort off the shelves here and made it available by prescription only. Yet it is still available over the counter in N.I.

K.Flyer

jh79 wrote: »

From the same link

"companies now have until 31 December 2016 to voluntarily operate within the law, by withdrawing their existing products from the market, or working with MHRA to satisfy the legal requirements of the Human Medicines Regulations 2012."

Ehh. Yeah, that was in my post, again, all that means is it is off the open shelves to become available by prescription only.

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

All that means is that it is not available over the counter anymore, but can be available on prescription.
The same way as they took St. Johns Wort off the shelves and made it available by prescription only. Yet it is still available over the counter in N.I.

No it meams anyone wishing to sell / produce CBD oil needs to submit an application to the MHRA with clinical trials proving safety and efficacy just like pharma drugs.

It is now illegal to sell CBD oil in the uk.

K.Flyer

Still classified as a medicine though.

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

Still classified as a medicine though.

No that's not it, it is being used as medicine so it falls under their remit.

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

Still classified as a medicine though.

So can a uk citizen legally get CBD oil presently?

If yes who has the licence to sell it?

K.Flyer

jh79 wrote: »

No that's not it, it is being used as medicine so it falls under their remit.

Nope..
The spokesman for the MHRA has clearly stated that in the opinion of the MHRA "..products containing CBD used for medical purposes are a medicine

An MHRA spokesperson said:
"We have come to the opinion that products containing cannabidiol (CBD) used for medical purposes are a medicine."

The key words "are a medicine"
Not "... are a product being used as a medicine"

jh79 wrote: »

So can a uk citizen legally get CBD oil presently?

If yes who has the licence to sell it?

From what I have read, no it is not available over the counter at the moment. But when someone satisfies the criteria for the licence it will be available again, but by prescription.
As the ruling only came to be this month, I am sure it won't be long before it is available again.
After all, there is going to be big money in it for whoever gets the licence and the G.P.s, and the Pharmacies.

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

Nope..
The spokesman for the MHRA has clearly stated that in the opinion of the MHRA "..products containing CBD used for medical purposes are a medicine

The key words "are a medicine"
Not "... are a product being used as a medicine"


From what I have read, no it is not available over the counter at the moment. But when someone satisfies the criteria for the licence it will be available again, but by prescription.
As the ruling only came to be this month, I am sure it won't be long before it is available again.
After all, there is going to be big money in it for whoever gets the licence and the G.P.s, and the Pharmacies.

It is illegal to sell CBD oil in the uk as of the 1Jan17 , how is it coming under the remit of the MHRA in any way good news???

There is not a single clinical trial of CBD finished yet.

GW pharma are doing their phase 4 now and hope to submit to the FDA this year and your probably talking about 2018 for approval.

So at least 2018 before the uk get it and GW will have a patent for that ratio and exclusive rights until it goes generic.

Any other ratio unless they have already started could be a decade away from submitting.

jh79

Oh and we are assuming it actually has successful clinical trials.

kleefarr

http://countercurrentnews.com/2017/01/dea-slapped-in-face-american-epilepsy-society-accepts-marijuana-extract-obliterates-seizures-in-epileptic-children