Cannabis/Hemp Products/Medicinal/Legal

jh79

scamalert wrote: »

So you dont agree with Canadian doctors who prescribed oil for the kid then,since surely it seems they have done a lot more research then one you keep referring to,and see it as safe alternative,if not superior to existing drugs to treat his condition.

Then why there should be any more research needed if they have 100s of patients of all ages to monitor them for last 5 years if not more,not to mention countless studies done,and seems no one so far had made any complaints against it,including Irish government who granted permission to treat child with cbd oil,surely medical commission seen it works better then any other drugs,to permit it,thus why you keep referring to points that as other user said like every patient is given joints to smoke,do you even know in how many ways cbt could be administered or rely on studies that tested on joint smokers,or at least that what is seems like.

A one off case study (or numerous one offs) are not sufficient evidence that a substance is medicine.

Show me phase 1 to 4 clinical trials and i'll happily agree that it is medicine.

jh79

K.Flyer wrote: »

You love to labour on the point of smoking cannabis as not having any benefits, thereby trying to use it as a tool to dismiss all other research and reviews.
You don't inhale cannabis oil.
Children, like the child in Cork, are benefiting from the THC / CBD combination, they are not smoking joints to get it.

Out of interest what is your opinion on the recent review?

scamalert

jh79 wrote: »

A one off case study (or numerous one offs) are not sufficient evidence that a substance is medicine.

Show me phase 1 to 4 clinical trials and i'll happily agree that it is medicine.

you speak pharmacy terms again,if it was the case the cbd oil would be branded under some companies name and no one would be able to get it,thus when you mention trials you look for pharmacy approved,yet discount doctors and researchers who put in effort to treat it as medicine and administer it so who have done trials already and seen enough evidence to give it a go.

As for trials,doubt people who use really care about it,since as said theres no complaint or any accidents so far from using it,that would indicate its worse then standard medicine,thus your view is skewed because some big pharma group will take another 20 years to list down side effects,which i doubt are more harmful then meds that come with hefty side effect lists that are on the market already,and all that is done just to make sure they dont get hefty lawsuit at the end,and to make profits selling it exclusively at margin.In other words typical pharma business model.

Jayop

jh79 wrote: »

I'm just referring to Jayop's original claims nothing else. He made the claims regarding inhaled cannabis which his cancer.gov link does not support.

CBD oil seem like it has benefits based on the phase 3 data but lets wait and see what the phase 4 shows.

Did I?

Or could this be the same lie yet again!

You have no shame do you.

kleefarr

"Cancer

Regarding the link between marijuana and cancer, the committee found evidence that suggests smoking cannabis does not increase the risk for cancers often associated with tobacco use – such as lung and head and neck cancers. The committee also found limited evidence that cannabis smoking is associated with causing cancer and insufficient evidence that cannabis smoking by a mother or father during pregnancy leads to a greater risk of cancers in the child."

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/iom2017blog

jh79

scamalert wrote: »

you speak pharmacy terms again,if it was the case the cbd oil would be branded under some companies name and no one would be able to get it,thus when you mention trials you look for pharmacy approved,yet discount doctors and researchers who put in effort to treat it as medicine and administer it so.

As for trials,doubt people who use really care about it,since as said theres no complaint or any accidents so far from using it,that would indicate its worse then standard medicine,thus your view is skewed because some big pharma group will take another 20 years to list down side effects,which i doubt are more harmful then meds that come with hefty side effect lists that are on the market already,and all that is done just to make sure they dont get hefty lawsuit at the end,and to make profits selling it exclusively at margin.In other words typical pharma business model.

CBD oil does look promising but it is illegal to claim a clinical effect without MHRA/HPRA/FDA approval and rightly so.

If those selling it promoted it as a supplement they would have been within the law according to one website i came across.

By the way GW pharma are submitting to the FDA soon so at least one company has gone to the bother of proving what they claim.

jh79

Jayop wrote: »

Did I?

Or could this be the same lie yet again!

You have no shame do you.

Oh so your an advocate for synthetic cannabinoids and purified extracts not weed in it's natural state??

If you state that you never claimed smoked/inhaled weed has medicinal benefits i'll apologise.

Jayop

jh79 wrote: »

Oh so your an advocate for synthetic cannabinoids and purified extracts not weed in it's natural state??

If you state that you never claimed smoked/inhaled weed has medicinal benefits i'll apologise.

That's the third of fourth time you've said you'll apologise for lies you've told about what I've said and I've yet to receive one.

Do I think that weed in it's natural state smoked/eaten/vaped can have benefits? Yeah I do. Have they been proven, no they haven't, not to a scientific standard. I know from plenty of personal experience that people with certain conditions have been aided greatly by smoking weed. Do I say that this is been proven beyond any doubt, no.

jh79

Jayop wrote: »

That's the third of fourth time you've said you'll apologise for lies you've told about what I've said and I've yet to receive one.

Do I think that weed in it's natural state smoked/eaten/vaped can have benefits? Yeah I do. Have they been proven, no they haven't, not to a scientific standard. I know from plenty of personal experience that people with certain conditions have been aided greatly by smoking weed. Do I say that this is been proven beyond any doubt, no.

Just to prove i'm not lying see where i say "for inhaled and consumed cannabis".

But if you really were not referring to smoked cannabis then i apologies completey but i'm sure you can see where the confusion came from.

Quote: jh79
Quote: Jayop;
"Cannabis has not been proven to cause psychosis. In kids it may magnify pre existing conditions, but it's not causal and it does much more good than harm."


ME;
"What "good" are you referring to? I haven't come across any for inhaled or consuned cannabis especially if the criteria is "causal"."

The link was cancer.gov


Quote: Jayop
What was the good I referred to? You seem to be presuming I was saying good regarding psychological issues which I wasn't. Good as in pain relief, effectiveness in preventing and controlling seizures,helping with nausea. All good things don't you think

Jayop

Giant leaps in logic, or being purposely dishonest?

jh79

Jayop wrote: »

Giant leaps in logic, or being purposely dishonest?

You know it is only smoked cannabis that is linked to psychosis!!

So what else could you be talking about.

And in my reply I clearly stated smoked cannabis and you didn't correct me.

Think it's pretty obvious you were referring to smoked cannabis.

Jayop

I think plenty is pretty obvious about you.

Boom_Bap

Jayop and jh79
This argument you are having has become mighty tedious at this stage.
Digging up every single post you have made on this thread and rehashing the same point in getting the discussion nowhere.

Let's change the record please.

jh79

Jayop wrote: »

No, before you were pulled up you simply said the first part leaving out the all important second part.

Shocking.

Mod: Hope this is ok, I'm not discussing old posts.

For schizophrenia the latest review labels the evidence as "substantial" as they do for the modest benefits so the quality of the evidence for both is similar.

Dismiss one you automatically dismiss the other.

kleefarr

Schizophrenia is most likely if to smoke too much cannabis on a regular basis. Nothing is going to do you much good if you use too much of it.

Jayop

kleefarr wrote: »

Schizophrenia is most likely if to smoke too much cannabis on a regular basis. Nothing is going to do you much good if you use too much of it.

And I think it's generally when smoked at a young age which no one I know is condoning.

jh79

kleefarr wrote: »

Schizophrenia is most likely if to smoke too much cannabis on a regular basis. Nothing is going to do you much good if you use too much of it.

I agree , the research clearly states it is dose dependant but remember it is being suggested for use for chronic pain which means the patient will be smoking daily at least that is my understanding with regards to chronic pain.

jh79

Jayop wrote: »

And I think it's generally when smoked at a young age which no one I know is condoning.

No the latest review refernces a study that had both child and adult cohorts both are at risk of schizophrenia.

"Moore et al. (2007) searched multiple databases from their inception through September 2006 and included only studies that were longitudinal, population-based, or case-control studies nested within longitudinal designs. They assessed study quality by recording information on sampling strategy, response rates, missing data, attrition, attempts to address reverse causation, intoxication effects, and other potential confounders. Their search identified 32 studies, with 11 studies reporting the incidence of psychosis from 7 cohort studies, 5 of which were adult population-based cohorts and 2 of which were birth cohorts"

kleefarr

Well I am in no doubt that too much cannabis is a lot less harmful than too much alcohol and as that is legal then cannabis should be as well, but we all know that the alcohol and pharmacy businesses are trying their hardest not to let it become legal.

Vincent Vega

The Beckley Foundation seem to be doing a significant amount of research into the effects of cannabis & other psychoactive substances for medical use.
http://beckleyfoundation.org/science/substances-methods/

ps: What's the craic with images on AH? Thought it was a 1 mth trial? Given up already?

jh79

kleefarr wrote: »

Well I am in no doubt that too much cannabis is a lot less harmful than too much alcohol and as that is legal then cannabis should be as well, but we all know that the alcohol and pharmacy businesses are trying their hardest not to let it become legal.

Cannabis should be legal too but that is a separate issue to claims of clinical effect.

If i was to make a mixture of various herbs in my kitchen and then claim that it cured cancer then my mixture would be considered medicine and I would have to apply for a licence and support my claims with clinical trials.

If I was to instead claim it was good for general health I would only have to just show it was safe for human consumption.

The issue here isn't cannabis but the unsupported claims made by those selling CBD oil. I know there is evidence for Dravet Syndrome but it is not to the standard normally applied to pharmaceuticals and Rick Sampson does claim his oil cures cancer.

jh79

http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/26086/

Here is a link to the Barnes Report on Cannabis.

This is the report Gino Kenny talked about in his Irish Times article . There was a bit of controversy when it came out because Prof. Barnes failed to reveal that he worked as a consultant for a pro-legalisation lobby group.

Only came across the full report this morning, from a quick read it seems similar to the recently published American one.

Ladyinthedark

I've had enough of medications from my doctor for the last five years for my back ,could anyone help me with CBd and what do I need to buy I just don't understand it thanks .i have very bad back problems seen every doctor pain specialist MRI everything I'm at my wits end with the pain .do I need to buy a vape pen and where if anyone has bought cbd is the reliable site to buy from

mart67

Yes. CBD Brothers sell it legally out of Mildenhall in suffolk. !7 pound for the weaker stuff, They are on facebook, and have a website.

mulbot

Ladyinthedark wrote: »

I've had enough of medications from my doctor for the last five years for my back ,could anyone help me with CBd and what do I need to buy I just don't understand it thanks .i have very bad back problems seen every doctor pain specialist MRI everything I'm at my wits end with the pain .do I need to buy a vape pen and where if anyone has bought cbd is the reliable site to buy from

You don't need the vape pen,just get the oil and take orally,

scamalert

Ladyinthedark wrote: »

I've had enough of medications from my doctor for the last five years for my back ,could anyone help me with CBd and what do I need to buy I just don't understand it thanks .i have very bad back problems seen every doctor pain specialist MRI everything I'm at my wits end with the pain .do I need to buy a vape pen and where if anyone has bought cbd is the reliable site to buy from

its like you asking for a ban for such questions which aren't permitted on boards.only advise to legally get it would be book tickets to where its legal Netherlands come to mind first and look up for gp there who would be willing to give you a try of it,also oil isnt smoked its ingested.That said its still illegal to posses it in Ireland,thus only things you can do is try it somewhere where its legally possible,since asking sources =ban.

since see someone mentioned Irish sites that sell oil,its completely different from what patients actually get,the percentage is way to low ,putting that into placebo place not to mention price per ml since real oil goes est 500e for 5-10 ml,and usually still has thc in it alongside.

K.Flyer

Ladyinthedark wrote: »

I've had enough of medications from my doctor for the last five years for my back ,could anyone help me with CBd and what do I need to buy I just don't understand it thanks .i have very bad back problems seen every doctor pain specialist MRI everything I'm at my wits end with the pain .do I need to buy a vape pen and where if anyone has bought cbd is the reliable site to buy from

It is totally against Boards policy to try give medical advice and none of the shops in Ireland will give any guarantee that their CBD products will help you either.
Also, and unfortunately, there are more Scam sites purporting to be selling CBD or Rick Simpson oil than genuine, so you are in a minefield as far as getting the genuine item is concerned.

Ladyinthedark

scamalert wrote: »

its like you asking for a ban for such questions which aren't permitted on boards.only advise to legally get it would be book tickets to where its legal Netherlands come to mind first and look up for gp there who would be willing to give you a try of it,also oil isnt smoked its ingested.That said its still illegal to posses it in Ireland,thus only things you can do is try it somewhere where its legally possible,since asking sources =ban.

since see someone mentioned Irish sites that sell oil,its completely different from what patients actually get,the percentage is way to low ,putting that into placebo place not to mention price per ml since real oil goes est 500e for 5-10 ml,and usually still has thc in it alongside.

I'm sorry I don't know much about this that's why I asked

Ladyinthedark

Ladyinthedark wrote: »

I'm sorry I don't know much about this that's why I asked

Should I stay away from buying in Ireland ,and how can they sell it if it's illegal

Yamanoto

mart67 wrote: »

Yes. CBD Brothers sell it legally out of Mildenhall in suffolk. !7 pound for the weaker stuff, They are on facebook, and have a website.

Hell of a first post there pal.