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Cannabis/Hemp Products/Medicinal/Legal

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    #722
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    mulbot wrote: »
    Again,control for profit-this set up will change gradually.

    It is a quality issue, you believe that different strains have differect effects, don't you? So shouldn't the % / ratio of thc/cbd be controlled?


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    #723
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,168 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    SF won't they've skin in the game, FG a bit wobbly, if Miheal wasn't head of FF I'd say they'd throw the boot in. It's a cash cow and we all know they like cash.


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    #724
    mulbot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭mulbot


    jh79 wrote: »
    It is a quality issue, you believe that different strains have differect effects, don't you? So shouldn't the % / ratio of thc/cbd be controlled?

    Like in Sativex? I've no problem with a regulation on the ratio being the same.


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    #725
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    mulbot wrote: »
    Like in Sativex? I've no problem with a regulation on the ratio being the same.

    But that is why the HPRA is doing the sourcing , to ensure the weed is what it claims to be.

    I read a paper where they analysed weed from various dispensaries in the US and very few strains were what they claimed to be.


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    #726
    mulbot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭mulbot


    jh79 wrote: »
    But that is why the HPRA is doing the sourcing , to ensure the weed is what it claims to be.

    I read a paper where they analysed weed from various dispensaries in the US and very few strains were what they claimed to be.

    Have they legalized Sativex for use here? What paper was that?


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    #727
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    mulbot wrote: »
    Have they legalized Sativex for use here? What paper was that?

    Yes sativex was approved but doctors couldn't prescripe it for fear of prosecution i think.

    I'll have a look for that paper.


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    #728
    mulbot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭mulbot


    jh79 wrote: »
    Yes sativex was approved but doctors couldn't prescripe it for fear of prosecution i think.

    I'll have a look for that paper.

    So It's not legal for use-why?

    I would think the Bud cannabis sold in a dispensary is by nature not going to be always the same,I've no issue with that whole part of having a recognized control ratio.


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    #729
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,168 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Sativex is approved, medicines can be searched on the HPRA website.

    http://www.hpra.ie/homepage/medicines/medicines-information/find-a-medicine/results/item?pano=PA1042/001/001&t=SATIVEX


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    #730
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    mulbot wrote: »
    So It's not legal for use-why?

    I would think the Bud cannabis sold in a dispensary is by nature not going to be always the same,I've no issue with that whole part of having a recognized control ratio.

    The doctor could be done for supply and the patient with possesion , at least i think this is the case.


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    #731
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    jh79 wrote: »
    The doctor could be done for supply and the patient with possesion , at least i think this is the case.

    From a quick google this was the case between 2012 and 2014 .


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    #732
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Does anybody know what form of cannabis that the bill gives patients access to?, some have been saying it's just CBD oil. If this is the case you can just buy this in the Hemp store.


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    #733
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    Seanachai wrote: »
    Does anybody know what form of cannabis that the bill gives patients access to?, some have been saying it's just CBD oil. If this is the case you can just buy this in the Hemp store.

    Any form of cannabis that has some sort of quality control. Bedrocan, which is weed, from Holland is mentioned in the report. The HPRA will decide what type is appropriate the patient will have no say.


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    #734
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    jh79 wrote: »
    Any form of cannabis that has some sort of quality control. Bedrocan, which is weed, from Holland is mentioned in the report. The HPRA will decide what type is appropriate the patient will have no say.

    I think those in need will be taking their welfare into their own hands.


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    #735
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    Seanachai wrote: »
    I think those in need will be taking their welfare into their own hands.

    Why would they do that ?, the weed they would be given contains guaranteed levels of thc / cbd and would offer a better chance of a therapeutic effect.


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    #736
    mulbot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭mulbot


    jh79 wrote: »
    Why would they do that ?, the weed they would be given contains guaranteed levels of thc / cbd and would offer a better chance of a therapeutic effect.

    The strains of cannabis are important too,indica/sativa,


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    #737
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    mulbot wrote: »
    The strains of cannabis are important too,indica/sativa,

    Are there studies to show strains are important? The HPRA have stated that some evidence must exist for a particular option?

    I thought the strains were just different ratios of thc/cbd?

    Keeflar linked to this earlier in the thread. Have a look and see what types they produce.

    http://www.ncsm.nl/english/the-dutch-medicinal-cannabis-program/available-varieties


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    #738
    mulbot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭mulbot


    jh79 wrote: »
    Are there studies to show strains are important? The HPRA have stated that some evidence must exist for a particular option?

    I thought the strains were just different ratios of thc/cbd?

    Keeflar linked to this earlier in the thread. Have a look and see what types they produce.

    http://www.ncsm.nl/english/the-dutch-medicinal-cannabis-program/available-varieties

    There should be different studies of course-I see there are two products,one produced from Indica cannabis,the other from Sativa. The ratios haven't anything to do with the strains,you can have an Indica plant with exact same ratios as s saliva but both will have very different effects, . I don't see offhand any study showing the effects (medically) in a comparison


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    #739
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    jh79 wrote: »
    Are there studies to show strains are important? The HPRA have stated that some evidence must exist for a particular option?

    I thought the strains were just different ratios of thc/cbd?
    Those are the two measured chemicals. But cannabis has hundreds of them, I don't really think people are tracking how the other chemicals are interacting.

    I don't think you can really make any guarantees of potency based on breed. Growers have all sorts of tricks for increasing the potency and yield of their crops. I don't know if cannabis loses potency with bigger buds, or gains it.


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    #740
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    mulbot wrote: »
    There should be different studies of course-I see there are two products,one produced from Indica cannabis,the other from Sativa. The ratios haven't anything to do with the strains,you can have an Indica plant with exact same ratios as s saliva but both will have very different effects, . I don't see offhand any study showing the effects (medically) in a comparison

    That is one of issues the HPRA had with the studies done on chronic pain. The type of cannabis was not recorded.


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    #741
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Those are the two measured chemicals. But cannabis has hundreds of them, I don't really think people are tracking how the other chemicals are interacting.

    I don't think you can really make any guarantees of potency based on breed. Growers have all sorts of tricks for increasing the potency and yield of their crops. I don't know if cannabis loses potency with bigger buds, or gains it.

    Bedrocan guarantee a standardised product with known THC/CBD so is the obvious choice for a study which is what the access programme really is. The more variables there are the less the results can be trusted.


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    #742
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    A great day for Common Sense and more hope for many..

    Billy Caldwell and mum walk to freedom with cannabis oil after flying home from Los Angeles

    Mum Charlotte had announced through Belfast Live that she would be bringing outlawed cannabis oil into the Republic and that she would declare it at Customs


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    #743
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    jh79 wrote: »
    Bedrocan guarantee a standardised product with known THC/CBD so is the obvious choice for a study which is what the access programme really is. The more variables there are the less the results can be trusted.

    Bedrocan has a pretty high THC content with very little CBD from what I've found about it online. It's not surprising that it showed poor results for pain relief, the strain it's based on is called Jack Herer and is more known for it's calming effect and recreational use. Generally people who have chronic pain issues or are having chemo will go for a 50:50 THC/CBD strain or even one of the high CBD varieties.


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    #744
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    Seanachai wrote: »
    Bedrocan has a pretty high THC content with very little CBD from what I've found about it online. It's not surprising that it showed poor results for pain relief, the strain it's based on is called Jack Herer and is more known for it's calming effect and recreational use. Generally people who have chronic pain issues or are having chemo will go for a 50:50 THC/CBD strain or even one of the high CBD varieties.

    I never said Bedrocan was used in chronic pain studies , the HPRA had concerns with the chronic pain studies because the %cbd / thc was not recorded as part of the studies.


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    #745
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    jh79 wrote: »
    I never said Bedrocan was used in chronic pain studies , the HPRA had concerns with the chronic pain studies because the %cbd / thc was not recorded as part of the studies.

    Sorry Seanachai i'm mixing my studies up. Maybe the American one said this.

    The HPRA issues included the modest benefit shown, high risk of bias in the studies and more importantly a greater risk of side effects including serious when compared to other pain medicine.


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    #746
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    A great day for Common Sense and more hope for many..

    Billy Caldwell and mum walk to freedom with cannabis oil after flying home from Los Angeles

    Mum Charlotte had announced through Belfast Live that she would be bringing outlawed cannabis oil into the Republic and that she would declare it at Customs
    great news,since seems if done properly now anyone should be able to get prescription in states or say Canada,and just declare it as supplement or whatever way it flies.Since dont see issue if people are willing to go such lengths,and US Canada are prepared to prescribe and treat person,why should anyone wait until rest of the world catches up to smth that seems to work ok for others.At the end of the day people using oil seem exhausted most alternatives,so if it helps in any way then why should government have a say in how one wants to be treated.


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    #747
    kleefarr
    Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    There are some people who think that the Government and the Pharmaceutical business have the peoples best interests at heart.

    They could be no further from the truth if they lived on the other side of the universe.

    Natural is the only way to go...

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/two-dead-from-synthetic-cannabis-what-new-drugs-are-doing-to-our-bodies/news-story/fa55e87d01eb9801f2222cf235a5bebd

    http://www.drugfree.org/news-service/synthetic-marijuana-suspected-in-3-deaths-75-hospitalizations-in-colorado/


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    #748
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭jh79


    kleefarr wrote: »
    There are some people who think that the Government and the Pharmaceutical business have the peoples best interests at heart.

    They could be no further from the truth if they lived on the other side of the universe.

    Natural is the only way to go...

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/two-dead-from-synthetic-cannabis-what-new-drugs-are-doing-to-our-bodies/news-story/fa55e87d01eb9801f2222cf235a5bebd

    http://www.drugfree.org/news-service/synthetic-marijuana-suspected-in-3-deaths-75-hospitalizations-in-colorado/

    It's not the governments or the pharmaceutical industry fault that there is insufficient evidence for using natural weed as medicine bar those illnesses already covered by the HPRA report.


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    #749
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    GW pharma working on THC / CBD combinations, after positive results in their Phase 2 trials
    We believe that the signals of efficacy demonstrated in this study further reinforce the potential role of cannabinoids in the field of oncology and provide GW with the prospect of a new and distinct cannabinoid product candidate in the treatment of glioma,” stated Justin Gover, GW’s Chief Executive Officer.


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    #750
    mulbot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭mulbot


    jh79 wrote: »
    It's not the governments or the pharmaceutical industry fault that there is insufficient evidence for using natural weed as medicine bar those illnesses already covered by the HPRA report.

    Well the "insufficient" evidence is probably in ratio to the amount of funding those bodies have put into testing/trials etc-Now that there seems to be a way for private Pharma companies to patent and profit,we more than likely will see major funding of trials.


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    #751
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    mulbot wrote: »
    Well the "insufficient" evidence is probably in ratio to the amount of funding those bodies have put into testing/trials etc-Now that there seems to be a way for private Pharma companies to patent and profit,we more than likely will see major funding of trials.

    I think you are spot on with this. Most of the trials and studies that I have read about appear to be small scale and relatively low key, more often restricted because of limited funding.
    Now that some ground work has been done by those who had some belief in the potential, we see the big pharmas sitting up and paying more attention.


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