Brim Bros ceased trading

stecleary

Brim Bros ceased trading today, There goes the hopes of wearable power meters anytime soon.

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/irish-cycling-firm-closes-suddenly-cant-refund-e200k-to-290-investors/

Arthurdaly

That's an expensive little experiment. Guess it's all there in the fine print with regards to refunds but I'd be pretty sore about it. Kickstarter schemes = gambling?

Andalucia

wonder will the wonky stock be given to the kickstarter "investors" or will a renowned Dublin club be using them given connection

how could the fundamental flaws in the design only come to light once in production after the kickstarter campaign was finished? Surely the concept and testing done to date could still be used and there should be some value to the company if offered for sale as an entity for residual value even - questionable series of events here: take the kickstarter funding, the promised delivery date passes and then bang, were gone, tough luck

rollingscone

Arthurdaly wrote: »

That's an expensive little experiment. Guess it's all there in the fine print with regards to refunds but I'd be pretty sore about it. Kickstarter schemes = gambling?

Investing.

Investing = gambling.

People should understand that instead of acting like they thought they were buying a toaster from Arnotts

buffalo

Andalucia wrote: »

wonder will the wonky stock be given to the kickstarter "investors" or will a renowned Dublin club be using them given connection

What's the point in using something that doesn't work?

'oh look, I put out an average of 597W today on my coffee morning spin!"

1bryan

buffalo wrote: »

What's the point in using something that doesn't work?

'oh look, I put out an average of 597W today on my coffee morning spin!"

do you ride for Sky?

godtabh

Andalucia wrote: »

wonder will the wonky stock be given to the kickstarter "investors" or will a renowned Dublin club be using them given connection

how could the fundamental flaws in the design only come to light once in production after the kickstarter campaign was finished? Surely the concept and testing done to date could still be used and there should be some value to the company if offered for sale as an entity for residual value even - questionable series of events here: take the kickstarter funding, the promised delivery date passes and then bang, were gone, tough luck

I'd say it was down to the manufacturing process. Building them by hand they got units that worked. Put them in the mass production and the manufacturing process/QA meant that the were unreliable and to get them to work would require an expensive manufacturing process and push them above their rrp.

smacl

godtabh wrote: »

I'd say it was down to the manufacturing process. Building them by hand they got units that worked. Put them in the mass production and the manufacturing process/QA meant that the were unreliable and to get them to work would require an expensive manufacturing process and push them above their rrp.

Pretty much what I heard. Easy enough to underestimate the huge gap between a prototype that works 90% of the time when properly set-up and robust product ready for retail. Bringing a highly technical product into an already competitive market is no mean feat. Sorry to hear it didn't work out for them.

Lumen

rollingscone wrote: »

Investing.

Investing = gambling.

People should understand that instead of acting like they thought they were buying a toaster from Arnotts

Kickstarter is not an investment platform, it's a combination funding/retail platform where you have neither the prospect of profits nor the promise of goods.

It's a great place for people who hate money.

quozl

That's a real shame. A huge amount of time and effort went in to that - years of work. I'm really sorry for them to see it fail in the end.

TonyStark

quozl wrote: »

That's a real shame. A huge amount of time and effort went in to that - years of work. I'm really sorry for them to see it fail in the end.

Am i reading this correct:

Kickstarter amount raised = €183,133
Indiegogo amount raised = $231,364

Cumulative amount?

They might have been better to license their idea to one o the big boys who could have thrown R&D into it and make it into something that could be sold.

tunney

quozl wrote: »

That's a real shame. A huge amount of time and effort went in to that - years of work. I'm really sorry for them to see it fail in the end.

Its been failing for the last five years.

ford2600

http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Brim-Brothers-Limited-459327

http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Brim-Brothers-International-Limited-542768



At least when you invest, who might get something as a shareholder after creditors pick over the bones.

What remains of value in this instance I have no idea; patents, intellectual property rights maybe ?

It won't matter if you were a Kickstarter "investor"😀

Alek

ford2600 wrote: »

http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Brim-Brothers-International-Limited-542768

This Irish company shares its Eircode with at least 250 other companies.

Does this mean that at least 250 companies are registered under exactly the same physical address? :eek:

mathie

From their website

Over the last 8 years we solved so many of the challenges, and created new technologies, but we have fallen short at the last hurdle. We very nearly made it.

I find this hard to believe.
You "very nearly made it" and then what? Just gave up? Didn't have enough funds?
If you very nearly made it surely someone would step in to assist the last push or had that "last push" happened a few times?

Diarmuid

TonyStark wrote: »

They might have been better to license their idea to one o the big boys who could have thrown R&D into it and make it into something that could be sold.

I would think the theory behind a power meter is pretty simple. A few strain guages and accelerometers. it's the engineering that turns it into a manufacturable product that's the hard part.

It's not a great result for the investors or the guys behind it. Never good to see 8 years of work going nowhere.

magicbastarder

i was always curious about this notion that kickstarter is essentially equivalent to investing.
as others have mentioned, it's not investing when all you're (possibly) getting is the product you paid for. you don't get a payoff for the risk you're taking.

ford2600

Alek wrote: »

Does this mean that at least 250 companies are registered under exactly the same physical address? :eek:

Small companies often do that, not necessarily a red flag. Probably address of specialist company who deal in company registrations

godtabh

Alek wrote: »

Does this mean that at least 250 companies are registered under exactly the same physical address? :eek:

The address is more than likely a place older. My company is registered in some place in town. Means nothing really.

Fian

magicbastarder wrote: »

i was always curious about this notion that kickstarter is essentially equivalent to investing.
as others have mentioned, it's not investing when all you're (possibly) getting is the product you paid for. you don't get a payoff for the risk you're taking.

This is not an indicator that you are not investing, rather it is an indicator that you are not investing well. You are not getting an adequate potential reward for the risk you are incurring.

Macy0161

Diarmuid wrote: »

I would think the theory behind a power meter is pretty simple. A few strain guages and accelerometers. it's the engineering that turns it into a manufacturable product that's the hard part.

I don't know anything about the engineering side, but what I've read up on new power meters it's always about the reliable manufacturing rather than the theory/ prototype.

Wearable power meters appear to be the big step - although it's more in a running context that I've really heard about them.

BoatMad

I know Barry , and a more honest , hardworking chap you couldnt meet. He has put his life and soul into this product and its a tragedy for him and his private investors as well as KS, etc. I hate people that belittle failure as if it was mischevious.

The issues were always technically complex and money in these circumstances is always very tight. The R&D was considerable and many challenges were over come.

Barry had considerable personal investment in hard cash as well as huge amounts of sweat equity and I hope he picks himself up and gets going again as soon as possible. He is one of the good guys

BoatMad

Fian wrote: »

This is not an indicator that you are not investing, rather it is an indicator that you are not investing well. You are not getting an adequate potential reward for the risk you are incurring.

Kickstarter is not an investment, Its merely an advance purchase of a product that has not yet been made. You are not investing in anything , ,nor are Kickstarter " investors" actually investors in any common sense of the word.

ht9zni1gs28crp

BoatMad wrote: »

I know Barry , and a more honest , hardworking chap you couldnt meet. He has put his life and soul into this product and its a tragedy for him and his private investors as well as KS, etc. I hate people that belittle failure as if it was mischevious.

The issues were always technically complex and money in these circumstances is always very tight. The R&D was considerable and many challenges were over come.

Barry had considerable personal investment in hard cash as well as huge amounts of sweat equity and I hope he picks himself up and gets going again as soon as possible. He is one of the good guys

The Armchair CEO syndrome you find in these situations are hard to take.

At least he had a go....fair play :cool:

smacl

ford2600 wrote: »

Small companies often do that, not necessarily a red flag. Probably address of specialist company who deal in company registrations

Also quite common for small companies to use their accountants address for their registered address, as they may not have a premises when they set the company up nor wish to use their home address.

terrydel

BoatMad wrote: »

I know Barry , and a more honest , hardworking chap you couldnt meet. He has put his life and soul into this product and its a tragedy for him and his private investors as well as KS, etc. I hate people that belittle failure as if it was mischevious.

The issues were always technically complex and money in these circumstances is always very tight. The R&D was considerable and many challenges were over come.

Barry had considerable personal investment in hard cash as well as huge amounts of sweat equity and I hope he picks himself up and gets going again as soon as possible. He is one of the good guys

Does he have anything in terms of patents etc that he can get some of his and other's money back with? Surely if they've been at it 8 years there is something tangible there that they can recoup some of the losses with?

S. Goodspeed

BoatMad wrote: »

I know Barry , and a more honest , hardworking chap you couldnt meet. He has put his life and soul into this product and its a tragedy for him and his private investors as well as KS, etc. I hate people that belittle failure as if it was mischevious.

The issues were always technically complex and money in these circumstances is always very tight. The R&D was considerable and many challenges were over come.

Barry had considerable personal investment in hard cash as well as huge amounts of sweat equity and I hope he picks himself up and gets going again as soon as possible. He is one of the good guys

Agree with all of this. I just met Barry a couple of times when he was on the investment circuit. Extremely genuine and clever guy, poured his life into this and you could tell that failure for him would be devastating (unlike for at lot of "start ups" where failure is almost a badge of honour). They achieved a huge about over the 8 years. If they were based in the US the necessary funding may have been there but Ireland just doesn't have the Angel / VC network which could back this as much as they needed.

smacl

mathie wrote: »

If you very nearly made it surely someone would step in to assist the last push or had that "last push" happened a few times?

Developing an innovative technical product is invariably an iterative process. A bit like climbing a mountain, you think your about to reach the summit only to find another one hidden behind the one you've just climbed. It is also be time consuming, so when what you thought was going to be a 1 year process and you've budgeted to live off your savings for that period becomes two or three years it gets tough. Been in self funded product development myself for many years and sometimes you just don't get there in terms of product or sales. Fair play to the lads stamina for keeping with it as long as they did, and hopefully they'll pick themselves up and move on.

TGD

I took a punt on this and lost.

To me it looked like it was pretty well developed and that they were trying not to bring in investors for the final phase (as you have to give away something to investors)

"Almost all the production tooling and samples are completed and tested. The electronic boards, the plastic enclosures, and the software are complete, and pre-production samples have been in test for more than a year..... All product development and production preparation to date is fully paid for. Your contributions will be used to fund the final tooling adjustments, final production planning, and to manufacture your Zone DPMX power meter." (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brimbrothers/the-worlds-first-wearable-power-meter-for-cyclists)

However, they outlined the 'risks and challenges' pretty clearly and I can't complain

BoatMad

If they were based in the US the necessary funding may have been there but Ireland just doesn't have the Angel / VC network which could back this as much as they needed.

+1, +1 , hardware Dev in Ireland , especially consumer hardware Dev is extraordinary difficult to fund in ireland and lack off capital then bedevils these projects . When billon dollar companies like Nest , manage two just consumer products in 6 years, you know how difficult it is

BoatMad

that they were trying not to bring in investors for the final phase

There is no evidence of that , knowing what I know and what I hear from the VC community , the equity was all used up and futher private investment was impossible and would have diluted out all the initial investors. There its only so much road, private capital of limited amounts , can bring you along