Will changing preamp tubes alter tone much?

BewlayBrother

Hi there, just thought I'd ask a general question about preamp tubes since it's not something I have very much experience with.

My question is, will changing the pre-amp tubes alter the tone of an amp subtly or is it possible to get a fairly radical change?

I'd kind of assumed that, although preamp tubes will somewhat affect the tone of high gain amps, it's mostly in the circuitry.

Background to this: I've owned A Marshall TSL60 head for over a decade now and I don't really like the tone.
Actually, there are some things I do like about it: the clean tone is very nice, no problems there.
The Marshall snarl - the amp has this in spades and I like it. Particularly in the low registers of the guitar. Aggressive open chords can sound very nice on the crunch channel wherever the gain is.

My problems really start with lead, single lines, particularly high up the neck. It's too harsh, thin, dry and nasally for me. It's just a bit too "metal" for want of a better expression. I find it similar on both non-clean channels although the aspects I don't like are really exaggerated on OD2.

I had decided to sell the head but I thought I would look into changing the tubes first.

Thanks for any input!

wild turkey

If theyre cheap tubes then maybe it would improve it , its really a matter of trying them out to see
A speaker change would probably make more of a change

What valves and speakers are in it ?

BewlayBrother

The preamp tubes are stock Marshall ECC83's.
I'm using a 2x12 Avatar cabinet with Celestion Vintage 30s.
I remember trying out a DSL head years ago with a Marshall cab and sensing the same kind of thin squeal in the upper register so I think the sound is in the head.
My impression is that these heads were built with that big 90's rock radio power-chord sound in mind.
And they achieve that well, buckets of gain making for massive chords but for everything else...just a bit harsh.

BewlayBrother

I would definitely like to try some other tubes, at the very least it would be a good education.
The selection available in Ireland seems to be pretty limited though, it could be a fairly big expense for maybe minimal tone change?
Or is there any specialist store that has a good selection that I'm missing?

wild turkey

Your best bet is online for purchasing valves , they can be expensive though, But before pumping money into it maybe you should try it with a different cab , maybe greenbacks or something a little less harsh than Vintage 30s

You could always bring the head into a guitar store and try a few different ones out , compare it to a few different amps as well

BewlayBrother

I might just do that, thanks for the suggestions.

FR85

I might be late in here but valves are a bit all over the place. Basically they are all the same, mostly made in Russia or China, shipped out and stamped. Electro Harmonix are renowned for this. Don't spend money on Groove Tubes or that, have a shop about and don't break the bank as the branded ECC83 that you spend a fortune on will be the exact same as the Sovtek that was a quarter of the price.

Also, you might see an ECC 83 for X amount and a 12ax7 for another amount......they are the exact same thing!!

BewlayBrother

FR85 wrote: »

I might be late in here but valves are a bit all over the place. Basically they are all the same, mostly made in Russia or China, shipped out and stamped. Electro Harmonix are renowned for this. Don't spend money on Groove Tubes or that, have a shop about and don't break the bank as the branded ECC83 that you spend a fortune on will be the exact same as the Sovtek that was a quarter of the price.

Also, you might see an ECC 83 for X amount and a 12ax7 for another amount......they are the exact same thing!!

Thanks for that. Actually I've done a bit of experimenting since I last posted.
I ended up getting a new head, a Marshall Vintage Modern 50W.
I love it, night and day compared to the TSL.
(Interestingly, for anyone who is familiar with the VM, a previous owner put EL34s in it. It works well.)
I tried both heads with a 2x12 with G12T-75s and both sound better with this speaker IMHO. The difference is quite marked.

Since I had the 2 heads I started swopping around the preamp tubes. I mixed around a bit but ultimately tried 3 different 12AX7s in V1, namely GT, Marshall and JJ.
As far as I'm concerned it made little difference in either amp.
If there was a difference, it was subtle.
That's not to say a different tube again wouldn't make a bigger tonal difference but, to me...not worth going down that road at this point.

FR85

The only time I have ever noticed a real difference with Marshalls and different valves were with some of the JCM 900's and that is because most Marshalls have EL 34's on the out puts and I think there was a run done with 5881's. Chalk and cheese, the nicest Marshall I have ever heard was a 5881 loaded 900.

Pre-amp valves IMO make little difference, at least I can't hear a difference anyway.

BewlayBrother

FR85 wrote: »

The only time I have ever noticed a real difference with Marshalls and different valves were with some of the JCM 900's and that is because most Marshalls have EL 34's on the out puts and I think there was a run done with 5881's. Chalk and cheese, the nicest Marshall I have ever heard was a 5881 loaded 900.

Pre-amp valves IMO make little difference, at least I can't hear a difference anyway.

Yeah that's my experience now too. The Vintage Modern ships with with KT66 power tubes but mine has EL34s.
Some time in the not too distant future, I'll try 6L6s or KT66s in there and see how it sounds.

Interestingly, here are 2 videos that compare preamp tubes:

In the first, Marshall based one the differences are negligible. In the second, the differences are very clear.
So, who knows? Maybe it depends on the amp, tube type etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FplsdlPMwII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMeCNjkEaeM