8 masses for Axel

zulutango

frostyjacks wrote:

Distasteful to compliment a young boy for his way of mourning his father...you need to get over yourself. There's plenty of sticks you can use to beat the church with. Draw a line somewhere.

This is surely just trolling. You've spectacularly missed, twisted or misinterpreted pretty much every point made on this thread so that you can project some outrage.

degsie

I'd suggest moving this to the rugby forum. Should get some interesting perspective over there.

zulutango

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Official? In what sense is it official? There's nothing official about this appeal. It's a private person's appeal on Facebook, not a political party or government institution or any organisation that uses public money. It's a private appeal.

It's an unnamed person, not simply a private person. He or she is claiming to have set up the page based on a request by Foley's 11 year old son.

At best it's a well meaning friend or family member who has done this (although surely any parent must have serious misgivings about putting the kid into the spotlight in this situation). At worst it's somebody manipulating the kid and the grief of the Foley's to pursue a particular agenda.

panda100

infogiver wrote: »

I don't buy the Daily Telegraph because it's a Tory mouthpiece
Why don't you just leave these newspapers on the shelf if you don't like the tone?
Why do you think that the Editor and shareholders don't have the right to express their politics/ faith? Is the Equal Status Act being breached?
Challenged in what way? And by which body?

Well the Limerick Post is a free newspaper delivered to most houses in Limerick city so it gets delivered to my doorstep whether I want it or not. I think when a newspaper advocates that a Franciscan priest is a cure for haemophilia then it is up to us as citizens to question this type of irresponsible reporting.
Also, unfortunately I do not live in a vacuum and if I want to know what is going on in my local community of course I am going to follow the local papers on social media etc.

I see the bishop of Limerick being quoted frequently over the last day in relation to this and speaking on how mass is the greatest prayer we have to remember people with and the comfort in blind faith. It's those sort of quotes that make me very uncomfortable with what should be a private matter for a grieving family.

Hotblack Desiato

frostyjacks wrote: »

Adults spreading it...well the last time I checked adults were free to share facebook posts.

And other people are free to criticise them for doing so, if they see fit.

There's plenty of sticks you can use to beat the church with. Draw a line somewhere.

Currently they're publicly hopping on the grief of a family to promote themselves, so yes that's a valid stick to beat them with.

sbsquarepants

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lads I'm not a fan of religion but I'm a big fan of minding my own business. Private people can do what they like as long as they're not telling me what to do.

I think this pretty much sums it up - very few people actually have any real "right" to an opinion about this. To be bickering over it is a bit crass to say the least. People should really just mind their own business.

zulutango

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I think this pretty much sums it up - very few people actually have any real "right" to an opinion about this. To be bickering over it is a bit crass to say the least. People should really just mind their own business.

It isn't crass to question whether the kid and his family are being manipulated to pursue somebody else's agenda.

El_Duderino 09

zulutango wrote:

It isn't crass to question whether the kid and his family are being manipulated to pursue somebody else's agenda.

Crass to discuss it on a discussion forum? No.

robindch

frostyjacks wrote: »

[...] feel sick at supposed adults rounding on a boy mourning his father? [...] Free Presbyterians you see protesting at football games played on the Sabbath; utterly detached from reality.

frostyjacks wrote: »

[...] disturbing [...]

frostyjacks wrote: »

The fire and brimstone preachers of yesteryear are being replaced by the thought police of the 21st century.

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's sick.

frostyjacks wrote: »

Distasteful to compliment a young boy for his way of mourning his father...you need to get over yourself.

Honestly, frosty, you should drop out for a walk, have a warm, sweet coffee, breathe deeply the last of the fresh October air, read an improving book, compliment a stranger and do a good deed for the day, or maybe two!

If you don't, I'm very, very concerned that you'll do yourself an injury what with all this indignation you're taking the time to generate for us

frostyjacks

zulutango wrote: »

It's an unnamed person, not simply a private person. He or she is claiming to have set up the page based on a request by Foley's 11 year old son.

At best it's a well meaning friend or family member who has done this (although surely any parent must have serious misgivings about putting the kid into the spotlight in this situation). At worst it's somebody manipulating the kid and the grief of the Foley's to pursue a particular agenda.

" 'Tony was inspired by what he had experienced in Thomond Park and came up with the idea of getting people to go to Mass to pray for deceased people, including his father, in the run up to Christmas. The eight week cycle is fitting as his father will, of course, forever be associated with the number 8,' said Olive Foley."

Are you saying the mother is lying, that this is some sort of conspiracy?

Qs

Musketeer4 wrote: »

And what are you supposed to do if you are a big Axel fan and you're a prodestant or even an athiest? Hardly going to rock up outside the local catholic church 8 sundays in a row.

You can do pretty much whatever you want. You don't have to go to mass because an 11 year old told you to.

Cabaal

frostyjacks wrote: »

Really? Some are critical, some say the family should be 'allowed' to do it, as if they needed permission to grieve.

A majority don't have an issue, but clearly some atheists do. That's quite disturbing. Any other section of society would be 100% accepting of this boy's action.

Atheism IS NOT like a religion, the only thing in common we have is not believing in a god. We don't have any rules, guidelines or other share viewpoints after that.

All Atheist can and more often then not do have different views on all sorts of things and they are perfectly entitled to them. For example if one Atheist thinks Trump is great thats fine. I don't care, they don't represent me as we're not a club or religion.

Once again I repeat Atheism isn't a religion
:rolleyes:

If some think the 8 days of mass thing is nonsense then thats fine, they are entitled to have that viewpoint. I would censor them on that. Personally if people find comfort from mass thats grand, but I know I wouldn't be bothering with it.

You are getting all outraged about nothing, calm down and don't throw your rattle out of the pram....we're not picking it up for you this time!

Cabaal

frostyjacks wrote: »

Not all atheists are critical of this boy, but all the critics are atheist. .

Thats a pretty big claim, have you done a poll or checked their census submission to confirm they are actually atheists and not Muslim, Jewish etc?

Maybe they christian but just don't like the local catholic church setup in Ireland, its not like it has a good history in Ireland to be fair

eviltwin

frostyjacks wrote: »

Adults spreading it...well the last time I checked adults were free to share facebook posts.

Distasteful to compliment a young boy for his way of mourning his father...you need to get over yourself. There's plenty of sticks you can use to beat the church with. Draw a line somewhere.

It's even more distasteful to use this family tragedy to further your agenda against atheists.

Cabaal

Interestingly, this event is doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment. Its a complete piss take on mass

https://www.facebook.com/events/1803684463203226/

113k attending apparently :pac:

Can sure as hell bet they aren't all atheists ripping the piss out of the church and mass in general

robindch

Cabaal wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/events/1803684463203226/

The page's discussion is worth a look through:

https://www.facebook.com/events/1803684463203226/?active_tab=discussion

Mary63

Seemingly you are asked to go to mass for the next eight sundays,light a candle and out the picture of the lit candle on Facebook.

This is just so tacky.

Someone should close down that boys Facebook account if he has one.

El_Duderino 09

Mary63 wrote:

This is just so tacky.

Someone should close down that boys Facebook account if he has one.

Selling tacky shyte is a pillar of the religious business model! I take it you've never been to Lourdes - neither have I been but I gather it's a massive tat shop with a public bath specifically for sick people, with a fella selling antibacterial wipes on the way out to clean everyone else's filth off you.

frostyjacks

eviltwin wrote: »

It's even more distasteful to use this family tragedy to further your agenda against atheists.

How do you mean? My issue is nothing to do with the family tragedy. It's with how certain people are reacting to their loss. I don't think it's right to judge children on how they deal with losing a parent.

robindch

frostyjacks wrote: »

How do you mean?

In this thread, you've persistently misrepresented, to the point of soapboxing and/or trollery, the views of people who've posted here, almost certainly to legitimize what appears to be your intense dislike of atheists.

It's a little bit tiresome quite frankly and it would be great if you could use your time and ability to engage in debate instead of fist-waving.

frostyjacks

robindch wrote: »

In this thread, you've persistently misrepresented, to the point of soapboxing and/or trollery, the views of people who've posted here, almost certainly to legitimize what appears to be your intense dislike of atheists.

It's a little bit tiresome quite frankly and it would be great if you could use your time and ability to engage in debate instead of fist-waving.

Ok, people have said the manner in which an 11yr old mourns for his father is problematic, tacky, that he should be doing it another way, that he's a patsy for the Catholic Church. These are grotesque opinions and of I've misrepresented anything, please clarify.

fisgon

It is interesting to have a look at the Facebook page of the campaign.

There are posts there from the Combined Catholic parishes of Clondalkin, Cherry Orchard Parish, Redemptorists Dundalk, the Archdiocese of Dublin, Barntown Church, Balally Parish......you get the idea.

The Bishop of Limerick is quoted there as saying "people never forget those who are gone, Mass is the greatest prayer we have to remember them with."

Sean O'Donnell writes "If Axel Foley's son Tony, an 11 year old who has just lost his dad suddenly, can see the purpose in regularly coming to Mass....there's not excuse for many "Catholics" who have just become lazy in their relationship with God..!!".

Jessie Rogers writes "A beautiful way to be the body of Christ together."

Mario Perez writes "I love the lord because he hears my voice and my prayer for mercy...... (the whole of Psalm 116...).


But of course there is nothing overtly religious about the campaign. It is not being used by anyone with a particular religious agenda to pressure others into attending church. It is certainly not being used by the church to get more people back to mass. Of course not. It is clearly nothing more than a young boy's way of remembering his father.

Mary63

I really think it this boy should grieve in the privacy of the family.

He is under the illusion his father meant a great deal to the rest of the country,he is living in some sort of rugby bubble.The over the top media coverage and probably Facebook eulogising has reinforced this boys view that the country wants to remember his father.The sad fact is unless you are involved in rugby you will have never heard of Anthony Foley.A replacement will be found for him in a couple of weeks and this time next month he will have been forgotten about except by his nearest and dearest.

zulutango

Mary63 wrote:

The sad fact is unless you are involved in rugby you will have never heard of Anthony Foley.A replacement will be found for him in a couple of weeks and this time next month he will have been forgotten about except by his nearest and dearest.

That's really not true at all. Personalities like Paul O'Connell and Brian O'Driscoll are well known outside rugby circles, and Foley is the same in Limerick, Cork and Munster. He'll live long in the memory of thousands of people.

Mary63

Nobody really matters to anyone outside their immediate family.

As soon as someone dies the jostling for their place goes on.

I know rugby heads think the world revolves around them,you only have to be in the company of rugby mammies to know this.Hell,you know what,its only a game and its not life or death.

Hundreds of people died the same day as Anthony Foley and all the deaths are sad.

Enough already,its mawkish.

El_Duderino 09

frostyjacks wrote:

Ok, people have said the manner in which an 11yr old mourns for his father is problematic, tacky, that he should be doing it another way, that he's a patsy for the Catholic Church. These are grotesque opinions and of I've misrepresented anything, please clarify.

Saying 'he should be doing it another way', is one of your examples of 'grotesque opinions'. Are you sure?

Seems about the mildest way to disagree that I can imagine. You think that's 'grotesque'? Are you sure you're not exaggerating the outrage, even a bit?

El_Duderino 09

Mary63 wrote:

Nobody really matters to anyone outside their immediate family.

Speak for yourself.

looksee

I think maybe this thread has run its course. Yes, the way the fb page has been hijacked by adults with agendas is distasteful, but it has happened. All our debate is not going to change anything and sadly the focal point of this whole discussion is a young boy who has lost his dad.

If we wish to show respect for his feelings and circumstances we should stop bickering about it. Eventually change will happen, but this is not the appropriate event to push it.

Mary63

I am speaking for the thousands and thousands of people who said I never heard of Mr Foley and didn't even google the details.

This death is a tragedy for his family,to everyone else its todays news to be followed by tomorrows news.


This mawkish public who can grieve more than me is just ridiculous as is the idea of people lighting candles and posting pictures of lit candles on Facebook.What is this going to achieve except to talk endlessly about the death of this man.

His family should close the doors to the public now and grieve in private.

leftwinger

Mary63 wrote: »

Really have heard enough about this mans death.

I still have no idea who is he was,something to do with rugby,no desire to learn anymore in spite of pages and pages of media coverage,I just ignored it all.

Enough already.

Mary, you sound like great fun. Have a nice weekend !

kronnn

Mary63 wrote: »

Really have heard enough about this mans death.

I still have no idea who is he was,something to do with rugby,no desire to learn anymore in spite of pages and pages of media coverage,I just ignored it all.

Enough already.

Sounds like you could do with a few more lessons on how to ignore things judging by your posts on here.

frostyjacks

Mary63 wrote: »

His family should close the doors to the public now and grieve in private.

Oh yes, don't dare exercise your religious beliefs in public. We can't have that in a modern, tolerant society.

Nobody is forcing people to go on to the Facebook page. Live and let live is my motto.

nagdefy

frostyjacks wrote: »

Criticising an 11yr old boy for how he deals with his father's death...a new low for atheists. Give yourselves a round of applause. You make me sick.

Would their be as much criticism of young Tony Foley's wishes if Andrew Trimble died suddenly in the North and his parents/family asked people to attend born again or other christian ceremonies? There'd be no talk of the catholic rugby people in the south feeling left out. But it's easy to blame the Catholics for being inconsiderate to aethists, agnostics, other Christians etc. Easy target.

And as for all those people saying Catholic death rituals are phoney etc none of us really know anything at the end of the day. We can speculate all we like but nothing can be proved. When the life is slipping out of any of us who knows if that's the end or not.

Live and let live. I have no time for aggressive aethism or aggressive people of faith.

Stealthfins

nagdefy wrote: »

Would their be as much criticism of young Tony Foley's wishes if Andrew Trimble died suddenly in the North and his parents/family asked people to attend born again or other christian ceremonies? There'd be no talk of the catholic rugby people in the south feeling left out. But it's easy to blame the Catholics for being inconsiderate to aethists, agnostics, other Christians etc. Easy target.

And as for all those people saying Catholic death rituals are phoney etc none of us really no anything at the end of the day. We can speculate all we like but nothing can be proved. When the life is slipping out of any of us who knows if that's the end or not.

Live and let live. I have no time for aggressive aethism or aggressive people of faith.

You'll get used to it here after a while, the world's full of sensitive people.
Sensitivity doesn't discriminate atheists,religious or agnostics.

Some people are more sensitive than others.

Mary63

Its nothing to do with religion frostyjacks.

Its unseemly to be posting anything to do with this mans death on Facebook.Imagine asking people to light candles and then put a picture of this on Facebook.This boy and his grief are not for public viewing.

Why in the name of any God should anyone be asked to attend even one mass never mind eight,what significance does the number eight have,actually I don't care enough to be told why.

Bored to death with this whole topic.

eviltwin

Mary63 wrote: »

Its nothing to do with religion frostyjacks.

Its unseemly to be posting anything to do with this mans death on Facebook.Imagine asking people to light candles and then put a picture of this on Facebook.This boy and his grief are not for public viewing.

Why in the name of any God should anyone be asked to attend even one mass never mind eight,what significance does the number eight have,actually I don't care enough to be told why.

Bored to death with this whole topic.

You could just ignore it.......

This is coming from the family itself. If this is something that helps them then so be it. They are not shoving it in people's faces. The criticism of this boy is pure crass. It's not my idea of a tribute either tbh but if it gives this little chap a bit of comfort more power to him.

nagdefy

Mary63 wrote: »

Its nothing to do with religion frostyjacks.

Its unseemly to be posting anything to do with this mans death on Facebook.Imagine asking people to light candles and then put a picture of this on Facebook.This boy and his grief are not for public viewing.

Why in the name of any God should anyone be asked to attend even one mass never mind eight,what significance does the number eight have,actually I don't care enough to be told why.

Bored to death with this whole topic.

Mary i agree with some of your points. Tthe name Anthony Foley means nothing to you but it does for a substantial percentage of the population. When Derek Davis, David Bowie or Prince died it might have meant more to you than to me. We have to respect that different deaths mean more to different people.

It's kind of silly to revel in ignorance and say 'what's all the fuss i never heard of that fella'. Given the fuss, and i agree probably overdone by the media, he must have had some reckoning in society i'd been saying to myself if i never heard of him. I'd be looking up the significance of 8 and have a bit of natural curiosity. And dismissing him as some rugby fella, shur every rugby mother talks about her son is rubbish. He transcended rugby and indeed sport to people in Munster and Ireland.

I know little about who the current chart acts were, but if say Justin Bieber died in the morning i'd be reading a little on him, not out of interest in his music but to have some knowledge of what's going on in the world.

Like it or not a lot of us come from a catholic or christian tradition. Even if we've lapsed a bit we knew November was the month for the holy souls. So on the chance that the soul survives death saying a few prayers in November might do the dead some good. It won't do us or the dead any harm at any rate.

Hotblack Desiato

frostyjacks wrote: »

Live and let live is my motto.

Practice what you preach.

magicbastarder

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Practice what you preach.

don't eat the yellow snow.

magicbastarder

looksee wrote: »

I think maybe this thread has run its course.

i think it had run its course even before i'd finished reading the first post.

realdanbreen

robindch wrote: »

Mostly because it's false, and arguably manipulative, to pretend that praying or going to mass achieves anything.

Apart from that, setting up a scholarship respects Foley's memory and interests more closely - he was, after all, not a priest but a rugby coach who loved the game and devoted much of his life to it.

Now you want to tell the kid how to greive!, such arrogance.

robindch

looksee wrote: »

I think maybe this thread has run its course.

Entirely correct.

While there could be an interesting discussion about the appropriateness of the memorial, or how it's being used (or not) by various people, or how the public is being pushed one way or another, or any of the many other related issues surrounding this very public mourning, I have to say that the religious posters in this thread have consistently misrepresented any attempts at polite discussion in a cynical fashion which is not worthy of this forum.

It's for this specific reason - that polite discussion about a sensitive topic appears to induce religious posters to post nothing but bile - that this thread is now closed.

/thread.

robindch

Things are quiet and pleasant again, so I've opened the thread back up - any misrepresentation by one side or the other will be deleted summarily and repeated offences may be carded.

nagdefy

robindch wrote: »

Things are quiet and pleasant again, so I've opened the thread back up - any misrepresentation by one side or the other will be deleted summarily and repeated offences may be carded.

Or perhaps the sin bin

robindch

nagdefy wrote: »

Or perhaps the sin bin

I'll put it to boards' developers

Mortpourvelo

What business is it of the OP to criticise a child how he would like people to remember his dad ?

If you don't believe, don't do it.

I don't agree with a lot of things but not my place to criticise what I have no interest in - can't the OP do the same ?

Advbrd

frostyjacks wrote: »

Oh yes, don't dare exercise your religious beliefs in public. We can't have that in a modern, tolerant society.

Nobody is forcing people to go on to the Facebook page. Live and let live is my motto.

You are really having a laugh there.

zulutango

Mortpourvelo wrote:

What business is it of the OP to criticise a child how he would like people to remember his dad ?

The OP didn't criticise the kid. Read it again.

magicbastarder

nagdefy wrote: »

Or perhaps the sin bin

that'd be great - it should be called purgatory on the A&A forum.

robindch

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

What business is it of the OP to criticise a child how he would like people to remember his dad?

I'd just like to remind posters - again - firstly, that wilfully misrepresenting the OP or any other poster will result in the post being deleted and/or the poster being carded or banned.

And secondly, that A+A is a discussion board where posters expect to be able to discuss topics, even sensitive ones, without others jumping in and questioning their right to discuss and without others going out of their way to infer some silly political conclusion which causes them to hyperventilate, fist-wave or otherwise generally disturb the peace.

If you're not happy with these simple conditions, or if you have problems discussing things peaceably in general, then please go post somewhere else.