Non Farmer buying land, what grants/ other income is available?

pedigree 6

Some people see problems.
Others see opportunities.

That's a fairly blase` statement.

But I'd love to have 10 acres to play around with.
Keep your other income. Look up smallholdings and every type of land use available even gardening.
You have your own imagination. Use it.
Play the site to it's strengths.

I'm available for consultancy if you're loaded.;)

Again good luck.

paddysdream

Can see both sides of this to be honest.

On the one hand 10 acres of even the best land is really nothing more than a large garden and ever expecting to make a return on the money you would have to spend on it is unrealistic.Farming on a 20x scale and without needing to reclaim/invest and/or starting from scratch you would be hard pressed at times to make a viable return.
Farming at this scale would not really cover the investment,even with use of any or all grant aided schemes as output would not be enough.For example any handling unit for cattle,no matter how basic plus even a makeshift shed etc plus any investment in land improvement would easily outweigh even the gross return for a good few years.
Thats the farmer in me!!!

But;
Who says it has to pay?As long as it ain't costing you an arm and a leg then what about it.Farming ain't some magical talent passed down through the generations.99.99% of it is basic common sense that most people could pick up in a long weekend.Its basic minimum wage stuff that a trained monkey could manage on most farms.Its the extra .01% that shows the difference but thats true in any profession.Average is average and lets be honest thats about as much as most people aim for.So forget all the naysayers and give it a try.
The most cynical,meanest penny pinching bo11ox of a farmer I know surprised me one day when I pointed out that the few sheep he ran alongside a large scale commercial enterprise could never pay the way he farmed them,including the time he spent with them.His answer was that looking out of an evening at a few new lambs running around the field was worth more than 4 tonne of barley per acre.The satisfaction of knowing you reared them,kept them alive etc etc was hard to put a price on.

My advice is to forget making a realistic return ie one that would justify the price of the land or the time and money you might spend.Look instead at making it a non cost exercise.
Even if you don't make anything really on keeping say 6 cattle on it over the Summer wouldn't the fact that they are your cattle and its a learning process(if you think you might enjoy it) be better than having someone else just using it as Summer grazing.A few cattle like that are a great savings box even without expecting a great return and a great way of gathering up 6 or 7k in one lump for Christmas!!!!
Only way to find out is to try it and see.If its not for you then look to other ideas re setting it etc etc.
Not much help re the specifics of "grants" but I would think that you would be better off forgetting about all those things and try it for a year or two(of course you will need a herd number for cattle) and if its not for you then no harm done.

Bass Reeves

Who2 wrote: »

If it's that easy tell me how any man can make 10 acres of overgrown ground on the side of a hill, pay for itself and give a return to a lad that will have to spend the first five to ten years trying to work out a system that might work for him. I've bought land was left land, built sheds and all the other stuff. I think the op needs to realise that farming for financial reward is an absolute waste of time. Let's say he gets a machine in on his ten acres and does a bit of clearing and tidying, he won't be long eating 2k up. Reseed that and lime it and bag it, at 400 an acre that's another 4k, then it'll have to be fenced it's hard to say but another 3k won't be long eaten up. Then there's the cattle pen and gates let's say he does a handy one for 1.5k now it's not looking bad but there's a lad with a trimmer need in and as it's probably the first cut in a while he'll be rooting for another .5-1k when that's all done water has to be brought out and a few drinkers put around another 500 won't be long eaten up. Now along with your cattle pen you'll need some form of shelter for a sick animal so let's go with an old lorry container at 800. When that's all complete and you've probably spent another 350-400 on a teagasc advisor the man will probably be pulling his hair out and wondering what in the name of god was I thinking? Now away to the mart and buy a few weanlings and be happy if you can turn 200 clear per year on them. Like I said it's sad but true if you can make them figures stack up and make a few quid then your wasted farming.

Did you read the original post. There are some sheds in disrepair. Usually not a fortune to maybe put a roof on one and gate in front of it. Maybe 5-700 euro. I have seen cattle chutes put up for 2-300 euro. For that matter OP may have access to secondhand steel and material. Teagasc basic fee for Technology support for less that 50IU is 215 euro.

Nobody said he make a fortune. Some lads pay 1K/year for golf other lads have different hobbies. I have seen lads make more money out of 10 acres that another lad with 40 acres. He may even be able to write off losses against tax for first 3 years. He may be in the construction industry and has access to machinery that will cost him virtually nothing. If he is a fast learner he may rent a bit more you be surprised how lads adapt.

From looking between the lines he has bought a House and 12 acres that is in disrepair.......more than likely at good value. Not all investments returns are in income. Capital appreciation of this property may be worth a lot more than any income earned. If you can get part of the development work funded by the system then you may be on a winner.

liam7831

The simple answer is your not going to make any money with 10 acres, buy a donkey and let him at it.

Who2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Did you read the original post. There are some sheds in disrepair. Usually not a fortune to maybe put a roof on one and gate in front of it. Maybe 5-700 euro. I have seen cattle chutes put up for 2-300 euro. For that matter OP may have access to secondhand steel and material. Teagasc basic fee for Technology support for less that 50IU is 215 euro.

Nobody said he make a fortune. Some lads pay 1K/year for golf other lads have different hobbies. I have seen lads make more money out of 10 acres that another lad with 40 acres. He may even be able to write off losses against tax for first 3 years. He may be in the construction industry and has access to machinery that will cost him virtually nothing. If he is a fast learner he may rent a bit more you be surprised how lads adapt.

From looking between the lines he has bought a House and 12 acres that is in disrepair.......more than likely at good value. Not all investments returns are in income. Capital appreciation of this property may be worth a lot more than any income earned. If you can get part of the development work funded by the system then you may be on a winner.

Mod note: Give it a break. Don't post here in this thread again unless it constructive. Thanks.

Water John

Never had a problem considering Bass's opinion.

Bass Reeves

Who2 wrote: »

Mod snip

Mod snip... Part 2..... Off topic, We'll try and keep this thread largely on topic. Please and thanks.

DiarmaidGNR

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Did you read the original post. There are some sheds in disrepair. Usually not a fortune to maybe put a roof on one and gate in front of it. Maybe 5-700 euro. I have seen cattle chutes put up for 2-300 euro. For that matter OP may have access to secondhand steel and material. Teagasc basic fee for Technology support for less that 50IU is 215 euro.

Nobody said he make a fortune. Some lads pay 1K/year for golf other lads have different hobbies. I have seen lads make more money out of 10 acres that another lad with 40 acres. He may even be able to write off losses against tax for first 3 years. He may be in the construction industry and has access to machinery that will cost him virtually nothing. If he is a fast learner he may rent a bit more you be surprised how lads adapt.

From looking between the lines he has bought a House and 12 acres that is in disrepair.......more than likely at good value. Not all investments returns are in income. Capital appreciation of this property may be worth a lot more than any income earned. If you can get part of the development work funded by the system then you may be on a winner.

There are a few sheds, in usable condition, an old cattle crush, plenty of drinkers, and also a hay barn on the land.

Boundaries and fencing is poor, and the land is in loads of small fields.

The ground seems dry, but is very hilly and steep/ dangerous in places. (Big holes, almost like small quarries)
Only one flat field, probably 2 acres.

I'm not in construction, but would be handy, and I can probably get the lend of a digger for cheap.

One big problem is that I have very limited spare time with my job.

Mooooo

Out farm here I put 30 to 40 calves on 10 a acres for the year, now not wintered there so rarely take a few bales of it as it's very steep as well. If you could get in a machine and clear it you cold raise few cattle for the summer buy in yearlings or calves older than 12 weeks dose em and kg of ration if calves may not need it for yearlings for the season and sell before winter. Won't be much out of it but it'll be doing something. Other than that horticulture or some such enterprise.

kowtow

DiarmaidGNR wrote: »

There are a few sheds, in usable condition, an old cattle crush, plenty of drinkers, and also a hay barn on the land.

Boundaries and fencing is poor, and the land is in loads of small fields.

The ground seems dry, but is very hilly and steep/ dangerous in places. (Big holes, almost like small quarries)
Only one flat field, probably 2 acres.

I'm not in construction, but would be handy, and I can probably get the lend of a digger for cheap.

One big problem is that I have very limited spare time with my job.

I think you have to decide, and only you can decide this, whether money is a motivation in any sense for what you want to do with the land - because it's going to cost you a great deal in terms of either time or cash or both in investment long before it produces any kind of return (and, like most in farming, that return will likely be tiny compared to the capital invested, let alone the time).

Had the thread title been "10 acres, cash poor, time poor, but really want to farm" I suspect there would be plenty of useful practical advice - what people are cautious of is the idea of farming such a small plot in the hope of generating a financial return (whether by income, grants, or whatever).

Whether sheep will be a better bet than cattle if you are short of time I don't know - I used to keep sheep while doing other things and they were always no trouble at all until they started causing trouble, if you know what I mean.

Since there is no money in it and a lot of hard work it might well come down to personal preference - would you prefer to be driven to distraction (and occasionally elation) by a sheep or a cow?

$kilkenny

For anyone looking at forestry as an option, Ill break this down into 2 main categories for Broadleafs and Softwoods, this is brief, there are many more options but this is just the basics.

Premium available for Oak per annum/per hectare is €615 or €249 per acre/pre year. The grant will cover all the expenses and you really don't have to lift a finger to get your money. Its available for 15 years so you get €249 per acre for 15 years and that is it. However, its slow growing so you don't really make any other money from it.

Then there is Softwoods. By planting Sitka spruce you get premiums again for 15 years, a different rate of €440 per hectare per year or €178 per year per acre. The added bonus being you will get revenue from thinnings at around years 15, 19, 23 and 27 with a nice tax-free cash injection at around year 30.
Yes you will have to replant it, costs about €1000 per acre after 30 years, but from what you make out of it, it is worth it.

Grants will over the initial planting and management of the forest so it doesn't cost the owner anything. They just draw down the premiums.

To be honest small sites are better suited to broadleaves anyway, premiums are good and it's like your own personal woodland behind your house which can be pretty cool.

This is all done will very little effort once the hard decision is made to plant, which is actually harder to do than selling your land.