''Non HAP compliant'' houses

Cunning Stunt

Just wondering if a LL is allowed advertise a property as non-HAP compliant? Isn't that the same thing as refusing rent allowance tenants? I thought that was done away with?
Also, is it not strange that it says 900 p/mnth single let or 1000 to a couple, and despite it being a 3 bed house, it 'would not suit a family with kids'?
http://www.daft.ie/kildare/houses-for-rent/athy/bridgefield-manor-ardreigh-rd-athy-kildare-1681019/

***luxurious/safe/beautiful area/amazing neighbours***
***It will feel like your own perfect home with the privacy***
***3 minutes walk from picturesque river barrow walking trail into Athy***
***Ideally would suit a single let 900/mth-or come make me a decent offer)***
***1,000 to a couple***
***property would not suit a family with kids***
***property is not HAP compliant***
***Carlow Rd side of Athy***
Kitchen is downstairs with 3 Double bed rooms or 2 double rooms and an office upstairs.
1x ensuite
1x sitting room
Jacuzzi in main Bathroom
Private maintained garden
Parking
Very quiet neighbourhood
Large Kitchen with all mod Cons
Utility room
Gas cooker / Gas Hob /Gas central heating
Seperate side home entrance.
Previous rent Reference's required .
Two months deposit please.
If I know you that would be brilliant if I don't perhaps you might know someone locally who can support your reference please.
***please feel free to email all your details to see can I match your needs with the house's needs**

seamus

Clearly a very reluctant landlord at all - same with the disguised, "Locals only please" message at the bottom of the ad.

Basically they want to rent to someone they know isn't going to wreck the place; they probably intend on moving themselves or someone else into the property in a year or two. Hence no kids who could wreck it, no HAP people who'll wreck it or overhold, no blow-ins that can't be trusted, etc.

I'd say they'd be an absolute nightmare as a landlord. The kind of gowl who'll walk into the kitchen through the back door and make themselves a cup of tea before skulking around.

Cunning Stunt

You might be right - also the ''see if can I match your needs with the house's needs'' line is really odd!

I don't think I would rent this house, like you said, it most likely comes with baggage!
But is it legal to use the 'non HAP compliant' line?

Michael D Not Higgins

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

You might be right - also the ''see if can I match your needs with the house's needs'' line is really odd!

I don't think I would rent this house, like you said, it most likely comes with baggage!
But is it legal to use the 'non HAP compliant' line?

Probably not.

bleary

Actually I read this entirely differently, this is a somewhat reluctant landlord renting their home and who doesn't want someone in who will wreck the place.
And sorry I just moved in to a house where it was rented to someone with kids and seeing that I wouldn't rent this house out to one myself if I had a choice. They have stickers all over the house, coloured in bits of the walls etc. It's a pain.

bleary

I don't think you are allowed to say that you won't consider social welfare tenants but HAP is a voluntary scheme that landlords can sign up to or not. They aren't obliged to.
It's a nice house anyway

pilly

There is a major problem with the HAP scheme, the restrictions on LL's are fierce and so some simply can not meet them. One being that the mortgage on the property must be up to date, this just isn't possible in a lot of cases.

On the other hand I don't thing it's legally "allowed" to advertise this as such but at least he's just being honest and upfront and not getting peoples hopes up.

Michael D Not Higgins

pilly wrote: »

There is a major problem with the HAP scheme, the restrictions on LL's are fierce and so some simply can not meet them. One being that the mortgage on the property must be up to date, this just isn't possible in a lot of cases.

On the other hand I don't thing it's legally "allowed" to advertise this as such but at least he's just being honest and upfront and not getting peoples hopes up.

Do you have a link for that? The conditions I've read are compliance with tax, rental standards, RTB registration, etc. but nothing about mortgage payments up to date.

pilly

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Do you have a link for that? The conditions I've read are compliance with tax, rental standards, RTB registration, etc. but nothing about mortgage payments up to date.

Haven't a link at the moment but someone showed me the literature before and one of the pieces of paperwork was a letter from the bank to say the mortgage was up to date.

appfry

I think thats a very clever advert tbh

Michael D Not Higgins

pilly wrote: »

Haven't a link at the moment but someone showed me the literature before and one of the pieces of paperwork was a letter from the bank to say the mortgage was up to date.

There's nothing in here about it. I'm not sure it's a requirement for HAP.

pilly

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

There's nothing in here about it. I'm not sure it's a requirement for HAP.

It was a printed list of documents that I was given Michael D, either way, don't want to enter an argument over it. It appears that any post I make you contradict which is totally not what I'm on boards for.

murphaph

Yeah a well worded ad. LL obviously has pride in their property and doesn't want it destroyed by the wrong tenant.

I took a house into RAS as the sitting tenants were told to find a RAS landlord or else. So I did them a favour and jumped through the council's hoops. These included adding a passive air vent through an external wall, or else the house would not have been RAS compliant. LL maybe knows his house is not compliant and is merely stating it, or maybe he just doesn't want social welfare supported tenants and has phrased it like this.

Anyway my own property will be withdrawn from RAS as the contract expires and I've had enough of the council's attitude towards landlords. My tenants are looking to buy and good luck to them. Hopefully they get something before the RAS contract expires next summer and the house reverts to the private rental market.

pilly

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah a well worded ad. LL obviously has pride in their property and doesn't want it destroyed by the wrong tenant.

I took a house into RAS as the sitting tenants were told to find a RAS landlord or else. So I did them a favour and jumped through the council's hoops. These included adding a passive air vent through an external wall, or else the house would not have been RAS compliant. LL maybe knows his house is not compliant and is merely stating it, or maybe he just doesn't want social welfare supported tenants and has phrased it like this.

Anyway my own property will be withdrawn from RAS as the contract expires and I've had enough of the council's attitude towards landlords. My tenants are looking to buy and good luck to them. Hopefully they get something before the RAS contract expires next summer and the house reverts to the private rental market.

Another example of "minimum standards" they don't mention on website. It's when you get into the nitty gritty of it that it becomes so onerous that no landlord wants to do it.

pilly

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

There's nothing in here about it. I'm not sure it's a requirement for HAP.

See below post about LL having to install vents also Michael D. The landlords leaflet by no means covers the hoops that have to be jumped through to keep the council happy.

the_syco

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

Just wondering if a LL is allowed advertise a property as non-HAP compliant?

Pretty much means that they don't intend on shelling out money to make it HAP compliant. I'm guessing it's in the range of HAP, but have gotten sick of people asking it is it HAP, and/or the LL know's it'll cost them too much to make the property HAP compliant.

pilly wrote: »

One being that the mortgage on the property must be up to date, this just isn't possible in a lot of cases.

pilly wrote: »

It appears that any post I make you contradict which is totally not what I'm on boards for.

You inferred that the the mortgage being up to date was a rule, and thus was asked as the other poster hadn't heard about said rule. Other people are on here to learn about the process, so expect queries for a link if you don't provide a link to said rule, tbh.

Michael D Not Higgins

pilly wrote: »

It was a printed list of documents that I was given Michael D, either way, don't want to enter an argument over it. It appears that any post I make you contradict which is totally not what I'm on boards for.

Boards is a discussion site. It will always have conflicting opinions and debate. But it's not necessarily an argument, merely presenting the facts. You've mentioned a list of documents you've seen, I've linked the published guidance (also went to check the legislation here, nothing about mortgages there either).

My motivation is to provide accurate information to the readers of this forum, and the primary sources are my first point of call. I'm not out to trip anyone up.

Graham

Could 'not-hap compliant' simply mean the rent is over the local limit for HAP?

pilly

the_syco wrote: »

Pretty much means that they don't intend on shelling out money to make it HAP compliant. I'm guessing it's in the range of HAP, but have gotten sick of people asking it is it HAP, and/or the LL know's it'll cost them too much to make the property HAP compliant.



You inferred that the the mortgage being up to date was a rule, and thus was asked as the other poster hadn't heard about said rule. Other people are on here to learn about the process, so expect queries for a link if you don't provide a link to said rule, tbh.

Because I don't have a link syco as previously explained. It was on a printed lengthy list of documents that had to be provided by a landlord for HAP. Believe it or not, not everything is online these days, in fact the finite detail that the council go into is mostly on paper.

<Mod snip: attack the post and not the poster>

Michael D Not Higgins

pilly wrote: »

See below post about LL having to install vents also Michael D. The landlords leaflet by no means covers the hoops that have to be jumped through to keep the council happy.

Minimum standards are required for private rented accommodation too.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print

Ventilation

9. (1) Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as a habitable room shall have adequate ventilation.

(2) All means of ventilation shall be maintained in good repair and working order.

(3) Adequate ventilation shall be provided for the removal of water vapour from kitchens and bathrooms.

Michael D Not Higgins

Graham wrote: »

Could 'not-hap compliant' simply mean the rent is over the local limit for HAP?

There is an allowable amount of topping up by the tenant above the maximum rates set by the government. This is different to rent supplement where such topping up is not allowed by the scheme.

pilly

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Boards is a discussion site. It will always have conflicting opinions and debate. But it's not necessarily an argument, merely presenting the facts. You've mentioned a list of documents you've seen, I've linked the published guidance (also went to check the legislation here, nothing about mortgages there either).

My motivation is to provide accurate information to the readers of this forum, and the primary sources are my first point of call. I'm not out to trip anyone up.

So what you're saying is that I am lying about the list of documents the council requested from me when I seen it with my own eyes and it was the main reason that I couldn't rent to a HAP applicant?

Michael D Not Higgins

pilly wrote: »

So what you're saying is that I am lying about the list of documents the council requested from me when I seen it with my own eyes and it was the main reason that I couldn't rent to a HAP applicant?

Absolutely not, as I said I'm not out to trip anyone up. If the council asked for that, they shouldn't have as it's not a requirement for HAP.

pilly

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Minimum standards are required for private rented accommodation too.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print

Ventilation

9. (1) Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as a habitable room shall have adequate ventilation.

(2) All means of ventilation shall be maintained in good repair and working order.

(3) Adequate ventilation shall be provided for the removal of water vapour from kitchens and bathrooms.

Yes but if a private tenant is happy that a window in a bathroom is adequate ventilation then there isn't a council official to insist on otherwise.

Whatever or however did we live without vents? Oh yes, we opened windows!

Graham

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

There is an allowable amount of topping up by the tenant above the maximum rates set by the government. This is different to rent supplement where such topping up is not allowed by the scheme.

Wasn't sure whether the allowable amount would still be below the rent being asked.

On checking, it appears the maximum for a couple in Kildare is €750pm which would make the house non-hap compliant for a couple.

Michael D Not Higgins

Graham wrote: »

Wasn't sure whether the allowable amount would still be below the rent being asked.

On checking, it appears the maximum for a couple in Kildare is €750pm which would make the house non-hap compliant for a couple.

I don't know how much discretion on the amount above the limit is allowed. I think it depends on the area, rental prices v limits, scarcity of rentals, etc.

What this budding landlord has in the ad is likely to run afoul of the Equal Status Act from its wording even if it's above the limit, not that that will change anything or that anything will come of it.

murphaph

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Minimum standards are required for private rented accommodation too.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print

Ventilation

9. (1) Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as a habitable room shall have adequate ventilation.

(2) All means of ventilation shall be maintained in good repair and working order.

(3) Adequate ventilation shall be provided for the removal of water vapour from kitchens and bathrooms.

The room in question in my case has a window which can provide ventilation. It was only an issue for the council for the purposes of RAS. There was no suggestion the house didn't meet the general minimum standards for rental accommodation.

pilly

murphaph wrote: »

The room in question in my case has a window which can provide ventilation. It was only an issue for the council for the purposes of RAS. There was no suggestion the house didn't meet the general minimum standards for rental accommodation.

Exactly my point above murphaph, a window is ventilation.

Similar thing happened when my parents had their bathroom adapted, the council insisted on a vent being put in even though there was a window. They didn't want one but the reasoning was that they might not open the window. In other words they might be too stupid to open a window every so often!!!

murphaph

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

What this budding landlord has in the ad is likely to run afoul of the Equal Status Act from its wording even if it's above the limit, not that that will change anything or that anything will come of it.

Sometimes the law is an ass. This LL is saving everyone from wasting their time applying for a house they have no chance of getting. HAP/RAS/RS tenants are the biggest losers with this silly law as they have so few willing landlords and have to wade through add for properties they will never get. The LL who doesn't make it clear in the as will still discriminate against such tenants but it won't be provable.

pilly

murphaph wrote: »

Sometimes the law is an ass. This LL is saving everyone from wasting their time applying for a house they have no chance of getting. HAP/RAS/RS tenants are the biggest losers with this silly law as they have so few willing landlords and have to wade through add for properties they will never get. The LL who doesn't make it clear in the as will still discriminate against such tenants but it won't be provable.

You're so right murphaph, its the tenants I feel sorry for. If the council weren't putting so many obstacles in peoples way then LL's would be accepting the HAP.

Let's get back to basics. Would I prefer to live in a hotel or to live in a house that had only windows for ventilation and not vents?

Michael D Not Higgins

murphaph wrote: »

Sometimes the law is an ass. This LL is saving everyone from wasting their time applying for a house they have no chance of getting. HAP/RAS/RS tenants are the biggest losers with this silly law as they have so few willing landlords and have to wade through add for properties they will never get. The LL who doesn't make it clear in the as will still discriminate against such tenants but it won't be provable.

Agreed, it was merely lip service to the homeless campaigners about the discrimination against social welfare tenants.

The question asked was "is this legal?" and the answer is "no". As I said this doesn't mean anything will come of it or that someone on HAP will be able to force the landlord to rent to them so it's a toothless law.