Two Child Seats ?

Can anyone suggest a carrying solution for Two Children ? 2.5 years and 10 months. I already have a rear seat for the 2.5 year old.

I'd love a trailer to put them but I fear they are too dangerous on country roads, how do people feel about them ? they seem ideal. I see them a lot in Germany but of course we don't have those fantastic cycle lanes.

ted1

We got this front seat for the little guy and he loves it. Attached to the handlebar stem.
In my opinion that in the open road it's much safer than chariot.



https://www.internet-bikes.com/en/122051-bobike-duo-exclusive-mini-bike-seat-for-safari-chic/

That's clever, up to 9 months 15 Kg, I wonder what to do after ?

The chariot is great because you can zip it up in the rain but I would be far too nervous on Irish country roads, has anone any experience with these on country roads ? I like the idea of the lower centre of gravity too.

tomasrojo

I have a Chariot Cougar, but it's for one child only, and I never used it outside Dublin.

Xtracycle conversion of a mountain bike (maybe other bikes) is possible?

doozerie

We used our (single seat) trailer for several years with no problem. Most of that was around Dublin roads so a mix of light and heavy traffic levels. We also used it in the UK on country roads during a 2-week holiday, and again fine.

Decent lights on the trailer, both on the back of it and on the sides, help a lot. Trailers tend to come with flags which sit fairly high and while we didn't always use ours I think it's another useful way to make it visible at times.

A concern that was expressed to us quite a few times by others was that a driver might simply drive over the trailer. If you expect a driver to be so stupid as to do that though, then that driver is clearly stupid enough to mow down a cyclist carrying a child directly on their bike too. If a collision were to actually occur in either scenario, I'd prefer my child to be in a decent trailer (with roll cage, secure harness, etc.) as it would actually provide more protection.

It came as a pleasant surprise to me that so many motorists recognised our trailer as a child trailer and they tended to give us plenty of room for the most part.

tomasrojo

doozerie wrote: »

A concern that was expressed to us quite a few times by others was that a driver might simply drive over the trailer. If you expect a driver to be so stupid as to do that though, then that driver is clearly stupid enough to mow down a cyclist carrying a child directly on their bike too. If a collision were to actually occur in either scenario, I'd prefer my child to be in a decent trailer (with roll cage, secure harness, etc.) as it would actually provide more protection.

Yeah, my wife wasn't happy with me using the trailer on the road (much happier about the bakfiets), though I did a bit with the kids (one at a time, given that it's a one-child trailer!), and I still use it for cargo. People always give it plenty of room. In fact, you're way more conspicuous than most cyclists. If you don't like attention, it's would be a problem actually. I never bothered with the flag.

That was all in Dublin though. Country roads with speeding drivers might be more of a problem, though the danger of a collision wouldn't be all that different for a cyclist with children on a carrier on the bike itself, I think. If they're going too fast to see a trailer in time, they're going too fast to see a bike in time too. The trailer is somewhat nearer the oncoming car, but the trailer is wider than a bike, so more noticeable..

The Chariot considered altogether is not low down, though the child is low down, which is good for stability. If you put a light on the push bar, the light is about the same level as if it were under the saddle -- that is, higher than a lot of people have their lights on the actual bike.

check_six

The riskiest bit with a child seat on the bike is when you go to lift a kid into or out of the seat. If the bike decides to topple over mid way you can have difficulties. Getting two children to remain perfectly still while you balance the bike and then try to take the first child out is not a trivial task! If one wiggles then problems follow!

Having used bike trailers I would wholeheartedly recommend them as you have no issues with balance. The bike can topple over and the trailer remains unaffected. Plus, it's comfier, and rainproof, and you can carry luggage as well. You can also festoon them with lights for visibility.

If you are set on going for two child seats on the one bike I would look and see if you can get a super-robust two footed bike stand to aid with the loading and unloading of the wee people. (I'd still advise that the trailer would be more convenient and safer however).

Musketeer4

I shudder when I see those chariot trailers on the road with small kiddies in them. It looks incredibly risky. I don't have kids but when/if I do I would never put them in one.

check_six

doozerie wrote: »

It came as a pleasant surprise to me that so many motorists recognised our trailer as a child trailer and they tended to give us plenty of room for the most part.

I think many people thought our trailer was the vanguard for an alien invasion fleet from Mars judging by their startled reaction (and my lads generally being armed to the teeth with various ray-guns and laser cannons).

We were *always* given a wide berth, which was a nice change from general cycling.

The trailer is a lot more common sight now on the roads five years on.

check_six

Musketeer4 wrote: »

I shudder when I see those chariot trailers on the road with small kiddies in them. It looks incredibly risky. I don't have kids but when/if I do I would never put them in one.

I'm curious. What do you perceive as the major risk?

tomasrojo

check_six wrote: »

The trailer is a lot more common sight now on the roads five years on.

I saw a woman last week doing what heretofore only I seemed to be doing: she was using a child trailer (minus child) to carry a load of long cargo. I felt less alone in the world.

Musketeer4

They are very low down. They could be below the field of vision of a driver of a big vehicle, van or jeep etc. Then there's careless drivers.

If a child is on a seat on top of a bike and the bike is hit at least the might be thrown through the air, landing iwth injuries. However the trailer is so low down that they would be almost certainly crushed beneath the vehicle sustaining much greater injuries. They provide no protection whatsoever.

In all honesty I'd be very wary of venurting out onto the roads with a child on the bike at all it's just oo risky and I'd never forgive myself if something happened. Its fine for greenways and dedicated cycle paths etc. though. Thats a different kettle of fish.

tomasrojo

There was an evaluation (statistical, I think) done by Zurich insurance a few years ago. Trailer came out safer than bike seats on the bike. But I'm not sure what data they were looking at.

From personal experience, the Chariot is very much seen by all road users. But, as I said, it's not very low down. It's high-sided and has a high push bar attached. Some other trailers are lower down alright.

I've also been using a bike-hod trailer for many years. Never had an incident of a jeep/truck/etc. coming near it.

boardbeer

In my (considerable, 3 kids worth of) experience, trailers are given much more space by cars passing than you'd get with a child-seat equipped bike. Plenty colourful and well-lit at night helps reinforce this.
Allianz and the ADAC in Germany both ran tests comparing the safety of child-trailers to child-seats, and concluded the trailer to be much safer. In the Allianz test, they used the crash-test-dummy, and it was clear that a well-built trailer is pushed out of the path by a car, rather than the car running over it of crushing it.

I am really envious of those wonderful German cycle lanes, being able to cycle from village to village, town to town is truly a blissful experience, I think we should demand proper cycle lanes not a white line in the hard shoulder of high speed traffic and busses.

The trailers/chariots scare the hell out of me because they are low down but I want to be able to bring the little lad when he's older than 9 months and looks like a chariot is the only real answer ?

I'll really on country lanes/roads and you got Milk Lorries, tractors, lunatic car drivers, etc, I don't know.......

boardbeer

and here's a video of the Allianz test

tomasrojo

A bakfiets is another solution (which I now use). Pricey though.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's clever, up to 9 months 15 Kg, I wonder what to do after ?

The chariot is great because you can zip it up in the rain but I would be far too nervous on Irish country roads, has anone any experience with these on country roads ? I like the idea of the lower centre of gravity too.

From 9 months!!! Up to approx 3 years or 15kg

peneau

Not cheap but can certainly recommend. Used one for my little boy a couple of years ago. Seat is quick release and with a single child on board doesn't compromise the stability of the bike in the way IMO a rear seat does particularly when the child moves. Hope that helps

http://www.halfords.ie/cycling/bike-accessories/child-bike-seats/weeride-safe-front-child-bike-seat

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

It came as a pleasant surprise to me that so many motorists recognised our trailer as a child trailer and they tended to give us plenty of room for the most part.

I found this also.

Unfortunately it brings the uncomfortable realisation that the close passes and general ambivalence about safety displayed towards unaccompanied adult cyclists is deliberate. :rolleyes:

'68 Fastback

I use a Surly Big Dummy with the Yepp Maxi seat for a 2 year old. I can't comment on any other solutions as this is the only setup I've used but i find it brilliant. I commute from Inchicore to Dublin city centre and the bike handles very well in dense traffic. Very rarely do I get stuck behind anything and the journey time, fully loaded, is only about 10 mins longer than with my road bike.

The seat connects to the bike with a cleat system that allows you to remove it very easily. Might not be a factor for OP but I can't bring the bike inside so this feature is invaluable to me.

The Big Dummy has a long enough pannier rack to accommodate two child seats but my second born is only 3 months so it'll be a while before I can test this out.

BTW, my 2 year old loves going on the bike. Even in the wintery weather we've been getting.

mr spuckler

i've only used a bike trailer (croozer kid for 1) and found it brilliant. as other people have indicated, i've never had a close shave with a passing motorist when using it but probably also haven't done that much open road mileage. our little lad has been in it since 3 months (he's now 8 months) and he absolutely loves it.

only problem is that when he starts in creche we'll probably have to get a bike seat as don't think there's gonna be anywhere at the creche to store the trailer (the croozer is quite large).

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

Unfortunately it brings the uncomfortable realisation that the close passes and general ambivalence about safety displayed towards unaccompanied adult cyclists is deliberate. :rolleyes:

Yes, the experience with the trailer brought it home to me too.

doozerie

Musketeer4 wrote: »

They are very low down. They could be below the field of vision of a driver of a big vehicle, van or jeep etc. Then there's careless drivers.

If a child is on a seat on top of a bike and the bike is hit at least the might be thrown through the air, landing iwth injuries. However the trailer is so low down that they would be almost certainly crushed beneath the vehicle sustaining much greater injuries. They provide no protection whatsoever.

In all honesty I'd be very wary of venurting out onto the roads with a child on the bike at all it's just oo risky and I'd never forgive myself if something happened. Its fine for greenways and dedicated cycle paths etc. though. Thats a different kettle of fish.

Your post is full of misinformation, I have to assume that you've never actually seen a child trailer. They are not low down, even a determined driver would find it next to impossible to not see one, let alone roll over one.

Careless drivers certainly exist but they don't just target cyclists. If you are hit by another car (driven by a careless driver or not) while driving then the risk of serious harm and even death to you is high. People casually take that risk every day because they consider the likelihood of a collision acceptably small. I don't understand why that likelihood gets inflated to unacceptably large when cycling is the chosen mode of transport.

As for trailers providing "no protection whatsoever" that is simply untrue. Speaking for our trailer, a Chariot Cougar, it had a roll cage built into it, plus a 5-point harness to restrain our daughter. In the highly unlikely event of a collision while towing the trailer I'd have been making a dive off my bike for the safety of the trailer.

tomasrojo

Yeah, the Chariot is a fine trailer. The roll cage and the harness are great features.

But, to be fair, Musketeer4's misgivings are very common. I heard many variations on them. My family thought I was a nut when I got the Chariot.

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

From 9 months!!! Up to approx 3 years or 15kg

Lol yes, thanks.

Tigerandahalf

I have a bike seat on the back of the bike at the moment and was considering getting a seat for the front of the bike. I asked here about it.

However I think a trailer is a better option for a few reasons.

Even with a prop stand holding the bike up it is not very safe when having to adjust more than 1 kid on the bike.

With the colder weather the trailer keeps them warmer plus less bugs and flies heading towards their eyes and mouth. Plus you can pull a rain cover over the trailer if a shower comes.
They can also sleep in the trailer.

Personally I wouldn't cycle on a main road unless there was a decent hard shoulder and even at that I'd be reluctant. Perhaps drive to a park or local playing field where you could go around the perimeter paths. Plenty of cheap led lights could be attached.

The trailers are handy as well to take a nappy bag or whatever bits and pieces you need for a kid.

doozerie

tomasrojo wrote: »

But, to be fair, Musketeer4's misgivings are very common. I heard many variations on them. My family thought I was a nut when I got the Chariot.

I agree, it is a very common view. Unfortunately it's also a view that both fuels itself and also feeds into that all too common misconception that the road is a dangerous place for anything but motorised vehicles.

It seems that if people hear that view parroted at them often enough they lose all sense of reason and deem trailers/the road as dangerous for no reason other than the fact that others do.

...it brings out my inner Liam Neeson.