The cost of travelling to work is becoming unsustainable

Emme

end of the road wrote: »

no it doesn't. you don't have to like it and by all means don't, but they're is no legal limit on the amount of passengers a train can take. i have never said that is fine, so read what i actually wrote rather then what you wanted me to have written.

end of the road's model of train travel

http://unbelievableindia.com/crowded-indian-train/

weldoninhio

magicbastarder wrote: »

it costs you €120 gross or net?

I pay €120 a month for my ticket.

end of the road

Emme wrote: »

end of the road's model of train travel

http://unbelievableindia.com/crowded-indian-train/

on what basis? because i stated a fact that in this country they're is no limit set down in law or elsewhere as to how many passengers can be carried on our trains? just because i state it does not mean i agree with it. however in saying that, if a limit was brought in tomorrow and i was refused boarding because the limit was reached i wouldn't be to happy.

hatrickpatrick

Why is everybody focusing on the car tax aspect of the OP? The cost of a DART ticket has gone up massively since the beginning of the recession. It now costs almost €5 on leap and more than €5 with a ticket to commute to and from work in the city centre from Dun Laoghaire or any of its nearby stations. That is ludicrous. I believe the fare is €2.70 each way on the bus - also ludicrous. Now, if you work full time you can avail of tax saver tickets which save a little - people who are commuting to and from college and working part time jobs get doubly f*cked over.

It's ridiculous. With regard to the DART, the service has declined massively in quality (every 15 minutes even at rush hour? Feckin' hell.) while becoming more and more expensive - and yet IE complains of falling passenger numbers?

_Kaiser_

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why is everybody focusing on the car tax aspect of the OP? The cost of a DART ticket has gone up massively since the beginning of the recession. It now costs almost €5 on leap and more than €5 with a ticket to commute to and from work in the city centre from Dun Laoghaire or any of its nearby stations. That is ludicrous. I believe the fare is €2.70 each way on the bus - also ludicrous. Now, if you work full time you can avail of tax saver tickets which save a little - people who are commuting to and from college and working part time jobs get doubly f*cked over.

It's ridiculous. With regard to the DART, the service has declined massively in quality (every 15 minutes even at rush hour? Feckin' hell.) while becoming more and more expensive - and yet IE complains of falling passenger numbers?

Agree with this.

I remember asking something similar previously - how is it justifiable for the same journey on the same vehicles (buses) to cost nearly double than what they did a decade ago after a severe recession that many are still recovering from and when services have been cut/merged or extended ridiculously in the same time

But apparently it's more important we have things like Irish language announcements, shiny new buses (which are arguably worse than what they replaced, and a questionable expense under the financial circumstances - especially when most of what's been sold is still in daily use elsewhere), and WiFi on-board rather than having cheap and reliable services first

Anongeneric

The last 5 years it was impossible to get a mortgage for most people, the banks were not lending.

Fine Gael should not be applauded for having cheap house prices a few years ago, as they weren't responsible for it,
The banks not approving mortgages, plus the banking sector worldwide imploding is what was responsible for cheap house prices during those years.

I'm not on here to bash FG or FF, (as much as I'd like to and it's deserved for a number of different reasons),
But it's fairly safe to say that neither of them are capable of managing the housing market correctly.

I can't believe people aren't talking more about the fact that low earners will now be helping fund 600k house purchases in this country through their tax contributions.
Edit, this was in response to "Augeos" comments on same.

magicbastarder

weldoninhio wrote: »

I pay €120 a month for my ticket.

gross or net?

ted1

weldoninhio wrote: »

It's a joke. I work in Coolock, live in Rush. 25km door to door. And it costs me €120 a month on work related travel on buses that are less than reliable.

That's using a Leap Taxsaver card. It's a farce.

That's just over an hour cycling.

ted1

end of the road wrote: »

why should we get priority. public transport is for everybody. not just those of us who work. lets say we did get priority, what would happen if they're was still severe overcrowding and you couldn't get a seat? we prioritise people earning over or under a certain amount?
you don't actually pay for a seat unless you reserve one, you actually pay to travel on the service.

Because if your not working you don't need to be anywhere.

_Kaiser_

ted1 wrote: »

That's just over an hour cycling.

You're joking right? Coolock to Rush on a bike?

I know this forum is obsessed with cycling anyway, but it's not actually the solution for every trip!

ted1

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You're joking right? Coolock to Rush on a bike?

I know this forum is obsessed with cycling anyway, but it's not actually the solution for every trip!

Why am i joking ? For ten years I was driving 50km a year, 2.5 years ago I changed jobs and am now office based, I have a 40km commute each day (20km each way) in Jan it'll increase to 70km each day or 1 hour 25 each way.

I'm 16 stone in my late 30s. Cycling is a very legitimate form of transport

end of the road

ted1 wrote: »

Because if your not working you don't need to be anywhere.

says who. based on what.

_Kaiser_

ted1 wrote: »

Why am i joking ? For ten years I was driving 50km a year, 2.5 years ago I changed jobs and am now office based, I have a 40km commute each day (20km each way) in Jan it'll increase to 70km each day or 1 hour 25 each way.

I'm 16 stone in my late 30s. Cycling is a very legitimate form of transport

I suggest you check out both locations on Google Maps if you haven't already and then imagine doing that trip over the coming months. You'd be insane.

Maybe the more "hardened cyclist" might attempt it but I can't see it being a trip most would want to undertake.. especially if they have an alternative!

Cycling is fine for getting around the city centre or to/from the suburbs, but the journey in question is a little further out on very different roads.

elperello

ted1 wrote: »

Because if your not working you don't need to be anywhere.

You might be going to a hospital appointment, to visit and help out with a sick relative while someone else goes to work, to volunteer with a charity, taking kids to school etc. etc.

ted1

elperello wrote: »

You might be going to a hospital appointment, to visit and help out with a sick relative while someone else goes to work, to volunteer with a charity, taking kids to school etc. etc.

So those people aren't available for work and shouldn't receive JSA. Hospital have staff and the relative can generally cope for an hour.

If someone is volunteering for a charity why should they be getting free travel , should they not be working ? I've no problem with people volunteering but if they are getting free travel then that's a charity donation and I'd rather select what charity my taxes go to

end of the road

ted1 wrote: »

Hospital have staff

yes, i should think they have. we haven't got a staffless health service quite yet. either way if someone has to be at an appointment then they have to be there and that's it.

ted1 wrote: »

the relative can generally cope for an hour.

based on?


i'm afraid it's not other people's job to change everything so you can get a seat on the train/bus/whatever. public transport is for the people.

Chuchote

If we had a decent government, they would have changed three things: Dublin would be building a serious network of broad separate and protected cycleways, rent would be capped, and the State would be building homes.

Cycleways because 40% of all journeys in the city are under 4km - a 10-minute cycle; there's rarely a reason such a journey has to be done by private car. And getting all those travellers out of cars would free the roads for good public transport.

They've done this in Vancouver and it's changed the city very much for the better:

https://vimeo.com/183441272

Rent cap because it would stop people buying houses to rent them out for profit, and allow renters to make a permanent home in their house or apartment.

The trouble is that the Dail is packed full of private landlords; they're not going to make laws that don't serve their own interests.

And the State should be building homes for two reasons: council houses have always been built to a high standard of materials and construction; and a good supply of council houses would stick a pin in the rapidly expanding balloon of house prices.

They don't have to be ghettoes for the poor, either: Simon Coveney's point that mixed housing is what's needed is very true.

Council housing is a huge cost..... folks commuting to work will pay for it but don't benefit from it.

Also no doubt people want go be in D4 council houses rather than ones in Cavan.

Excuse the extremes for purposes of an example.

Chuchote

Augeo wrote: »

Council housing is a huge cost..... folks commuting to work will pay for it but don't benefit from it.

Also no doubt people want go be in D4 council houses rather than ones in Cavan.

Excuse the extremes for purposes of an example.

People who rent council houses also work.

Others gain from council housing because a good supply of well-built council housing prevents a price bubble caused by undersupply of places to live.

Of course people want houses in Dublin; the idea that it's good national policy for great herds of people to be using polluting private cars to bring them from the far geographical reaches to work in Dublin is insane. It's much better value to bring down the price of housing in Dublin, and build good cycleways so people can whizz around the city instead of sitting in polluting gridlock.

Annasopra

Augeo wrote: »

My point referred to the last 5 years, not the present moment.

You can't say government policy is not reponsible for now

Annasopra

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why is everybody focusing on the car tax aspect of the OP? The cost of a DART ticket has gone up massively since the beginning of the recession. It now costs almost €5 on leap and more than €5 with a ticket to commute to and from work in the city centre from Dun Laoghaire or any of its nearby stations. That is ludicrous. I believe the fare is €2.70 each way on the bus - also ludicrous. Now, if you work full time you can avail of tax saver tickets which save a little - people who are commuting to and from college and working part time jobs get doubly f*cked over.

It's ridiculous. With regard to the DART, the service has declined massively in quality (every 15 minutes even at rush hour? Feckin' hell.) while becoming more and more expensive - and yet IE complains of falling passenger numbers?

It's €11 return from Greystones. Total rip off.

Annasopra

ted1 wrote: »

Because if your not working you don't need to be anywhere.

The example just given was hospital appointments so yes you often do.

Annasopra

Augeo wrote: »

Council housing is a huge cost..... folks commuting to work will pay for it but don't benefit from it.

I know lots of workers living in council houses!!!!!

reni10

I don't understand why all new companies especially tech ones are setting up in Dublin?

Then the majority of people working in those companies ends up being non nationals who have relocated to Dublin so they usually have to rent accommodation.

They then realise that it is far too expensive to rent near where they work so need to move farther out and either drive to work on packed traffic jammed roads or get inadequate or overpriced public transport.

So why are these companies not locating in other parts of the country that has capacity?

Everyone needs to face it that Dublin is FULL and do something else instead of trying to fit more and more in until everything just bursts again!

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I know lots of workers living in council houses!!!!!

That's half the reason we are short of council housing.
Many of the occupants wouldn't get one based on their current situation...... why build more when many end up as a perk off the state.

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You can't say government policy is not reponsible for now

Which government?

How is the current one responsible?

Chuchote

reni10 wrote: »

I don't understand why all new companies especially tech ones are setting up in Dublin?

Then the majority of people working in those companies ends up being non nationals who have relocated to Dublin so they usually have to rent accommodation.

They then realise that it is far too expensive to rent near where they work so need to move farther out and either drive to work on packed traffic jammed roads or get inadequate or overpriced public transport.

So why are these companies not locating in other parts of the country that has capacity?

Everyone needs to face it that Dublin is FULL and do something else instead of trying to fit more and more in until everything just bursts again!

Well… one transnational company I know of has bought several houses and rents them out for a fair price to its foreign employees. It's been doing that since the 1990s at least.

Augeo wrote: »

That's half the reason we are short of council housing.
Many of the occupants wouldn't get one based on their current situation...... why build more when many end up as a perk off the state.

I don't think you are familiar with council housing. It's not a perk; you pay rent aligned to your salary; the rents finance the building of more houses; the fact that the council provides housing puts a damper on the developers making a fortune from building ticky-tacky boxes.

Most people in council housing aspire to buying their own home, many are saving to do so and succeed in it, freeing the council house or apartment for someone else to rent.

Sam Kade

Nomis21 wrote: »

In 2007 I lived in Carrickmacross, Co Monaghan and I found a job very easily:

I drove a commuter bus taking workers to Dublin every morning and bringing home at night. The bus left about 6.00am and took about 3 hours each way due to traffic congestion. The bus got back at night around 9.00pm.

I have driven buses for 30 years in many countries, but the people on that bus were the most miserable people I ever saw in my whole career as a bus driver.

Shouldn't you be keeping your eyes on the road not looking at your passengers

Annasopra

Augeo wrote: »

That's half the reason we are short of council housing.
Many of the occupants wouldn't get one based on their current situation...... why build more when many end up as a perk off the state.

Right ok.

You want to create ghettos of unemployed and extreme poor where people shouldn't be encouraged to better themselves or find employment.

Annasopra

Augeo wrote: »

Which government?

How is the current one responsible?

So you want absolve FG of all responsibility despite the fact they have governed since 2011.

Chuchote

People should be able to live in Dublin if they work in Dublin; the AA's latest statistics found that the average price of running a car is €11,000 a year; you could save for a house deposit in three years by ditching the car and cycling (not to mention other advantages - as the lady in this video says, "Would you rather cycle too, Reszö?"

Emme

Emme wrote: »

I am sick of being screwed for my hard earned salary by all and sundry. Sick of trying to find a seat on a train in the morning full of people who don't pay anything to travel and could more than likely travel on a later train if they wished. Sick of racketeering extortionist borderline criminal car park operators who make the Kray twins look like amateurs.

Are you the only worker who pays train fare or are you having a pop at those who may be genuinely unable to either work or get work?

However, I DO agree that they should only be allowed travel offpeak or like the UK system, only within a certain radius of their home. Should they need to travel at peak times or outside this radius, they should be able to claim pack a portion of their travel costs.

Sitting on ones backside on the dole is torture for one used to and willing to work.

ted1

reni10 wrote: »

I don't understand why all new companies especially tech ones are setting up in Dublin?

Then the majority of people working in those companies ends up being non nationals who have relocated to Dublin so they usually have to rent accommodation.

They then realise that it is far too expensive to rent near where they work so need to move farther out and either drive to work on packed traffic jammed roads or get inadequate or overpriced public transport.

So why are these companies not locating in other parts of the country that has capacity?

Everyone needs to face it that Dublin is FULL and do something else instead of trying to fit more and more in until everything just bursts again!

Because they can't get staff, the staff want to be in Dublin.

reni10

ted1 wrote: »

Because they can't get staff, the staff want to be in Dublin.

So the staff want to pay really expensive prices for accommodation or sit in traffic for hours every day???

Chuchote

It's odd; I don't see a lot of people with free travel getting on the trains at rush hour trains, but do see them at other times. Is this a bit of a makey-uppy?

reni10 wrote: »

So the staff want to pay really expensive prices for accommodation or sit in traffic for hours every day???

And if we had good cycleways like the lowlands countries and the Scandinavian countries and Germany, this would not be a problem.

We need good cycleways and good public transport, and we need to put a foot down hard on the rising cost of rents; this is economic sense.

Ave Sodalis

I am curious as to how some posters know that people are on the dole when on public transport. Is there some sort of badge people have to wear? Is it because they don't wear a suit?

sup_dude

sup_dude wrote: »

I am curious as to how some posters know that people are on the dole when on public transport. Is there some sort of badge people have to wear? Is it because they don't wear a suit?

You don't get free travel on the dole. Only if you are an OAP, disabled or a carer for either.

hannible the cannible

sup_dude wrote: »

I am curious as to how some posters know that people are on the dole when on public transport. Is there some sort of badge people have to wear? Is it because they don't wear a suit?

I was wondering the same . I also wondered what an unemployed person would be doing taking the train to Dublin every day

Ave Sodalis

Deleted User wrote:

You don't get free travel on the dole. Only if you are an OAP, disabled or a carer for either.

So basically the OP thinks it's easier to be disabled or old so as to avail of free transport, than being younger and healthy and able to work. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I don't think all the free travel in the world would make me want to be disabled or old, and I certainly don't envy carers their job. Therefore, I don't see how free travel in an incentive to not work, when simply not working won't get you free travel.

But then, we don't have public transport in our area so I guess I just don't see the benefits.

Solomon Pleasant

There's one possible solution OP - Emigrate.

ted1

reni10 wrote: »

So the staff want to pay really expensive prices for accommodation or sit in traffic for hours every day???

The staff want to be in an urban environment with their peers , they want pubs restaurants activities nightlife etc. They want other similar companies in the area they could move to if they wanted too

Myself and my peer group have all said that if we had to move down the country for work we would rather immigrate

Tech staff are well paid and can afford rent in Dublin. Not many commute.

Del2005

Chuchote wrote: »

Well… one transnational company I know of has bought several houses and rents them out for a fair price to its foreign employees. It's been doing that since the 1990s at least.



I don't think you are familiar with council housing. It's not a perk; you pay rent aligned to your salary; the rents finance the building of more houses; the fact that the council provides housing puts a damper on the developers making a fortune from building ticky-tacky boxes.

Most people in council housing aspire to buying their own home, many are saving to do so and succeed in it, freeing the council house or apartment for someone else to rent.

The rent in council housing is, or was, 10% of income. That wouldn't cover the cost of constructing the house never mind funding others. Don't council house tenants save up to buy their council house at greatly reduced rates.

Therefore we have people not paying enough to cover the construction costs and eventually buying it subsidised and you think that is sustainable?

We should be building more social housing, but we also need to ensure that its been used for people who need it. If people in social housing can afford to run a new car and take foreign holidays then they don't need social housing and should be moved on so that the next needy person can get a helping hand.

Chuchote

Del2005 wrote: »

The rent in council housing is, or was, 10% of income. That wouldn't cover the cost of constructing the house never mind funding others. Don't council house tenants save up to buy their council house at greatly reduced rates.

Therefore we have people not paying enough to cover the construction costs and eventually buying it subsidised and you think that is sustainable?

We should be building more social housing, but we also need to ensure that its been used for people who need it. If people in social housing can afford to run a new car and take foreign holidays then they don't need social housing and should be moved on so that the next needy person can get a helping hand.

Not 10%: http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-housing/rent-assessment

Yes, social housing should go to people who need it, but it shouldn't, as Simon Coveney has correctly said, be a ghetto; housing should be mixed-income.

Carlos Orange

Chuchote wrote: »

Not 10%: http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-housing/rent-assessment

I don't think I have ever paid 15% for my housing. Pretty sure it has usually been in the 25-35% range. Never mind getting a concierge service for €1.90 a week.

psinno

psinno wrote: »

I don't think I have ever paid 15% for my housing. Pretty sure it has usually been in the 25-35% range. Never mind getting a concierge service for €1.90 a week.

No mention of 25-35% there.....

"How is the weekly rent charge arrived at?

The rent is calculated having regard to the weekly assessable income firstly of the Principal Earner and then the Subsidiary Earners. When the rent payable by the Principal Earner has been calculated additions will be made to this amount in respect of a rent contribution from the Subsidiary Earners. The amount to be paid is calculated as follows:

Where the Principal Earner is a single person it is 15% of the weekly assessable income over €32.00
Where the Principal Earner is regarded as a couple it is 15% of the weekly assessable income over €64.00. If a spouse/partner however has a weekly income over €32.00 the couple allowance does not apply.
Where the Subsidiary Earner is a single person it is 15% of the weekly assessable income over €32.00. The maximum contribution is €19.00 per week.
Where the Subsidiary Earner is regarded as a couple it is 15% of the weekly assessable income over €64.00. The maximum contribution is €19.00 per week.
The maximum combined rent contribution payable from the weekly assessable incomes of the Subsidiary Earners in an individual household is €76.00"

that's all from the "net" income too.

Self employed
"What if I am self-employed?

If you are self-employed after 7th March 2012 you will be assessed based on the following assumed net weekly income:

Trades People - €560.00
Non-Trade/Other Business - €500.00
Taxi Drivers/Licence Plate owners - €500.00
Hackney Drivers/'Cosy' Drivers - €500.00"

Blame the government eh ??

Chuchote

Chuchote wrote: »

..........



I don't think you are familiar with council housing. It's not a perk; you pay rent aligned to your salary; the rents finance the building of more houses; the fact that the council provides housing puts a damper on the developers making a fortune from building ticky-tacky boxes........

You pay tiny rent alligned to quite generous net income rates.

It's a total joke, folks who need social housing on a waiting list while the swindling stock of social housing is largely sheltering folks on decent money.

Emme

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you the only worker who pays train fare or are you having a pop at those who may be genuinely unable to either work or get work?

However, I DO agree that they should only be allowed travel offpeak or like the UK system, only within a certain radius of their home. Should they need to travel at peak times or outside this radius, they should be able to claim pack a portion of their travel costs.

Sitting on ones backside on the dole is torture for one used to and willing to work.

If you read the entire thread you will see where I pointed out that some people are unemployed through no fault of their own. The majority of unemployed people.

There is also a minority who abuse the system and one such person said to me that I'm a fool for working and an even bigger fool for paying thousands to get there. This when I was knackered at the end of a long week working and commuting. This person has a better standard of life than most unemployed people, she goes on holidays twice a year and doesn't seem to want to find work.

Emme

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

There's one possible solution OP - Emigrate.

I would have done so years ago but unfortunately it is not an option for me.

I stated that I have no problem with OAPs getting free travel. I do have a problem with the lack of capacity on rush hour trains. It is not fair for one set of passengers to have to stand while others get to sit purely because they get on earlier on the line. It is also not fair to expect people to pay thousands a year to stand on a train, put in a full days work and stand again on the way home. It leads to burnout and chronic fatigue. I've been through that. Is it wrong for a paying commuter to want to be well enough to do his or her job and not get burnt out in the process of commuting?

There are no jobs near where I live but a local business seems to close every week. Recovery my eye. It all happens inside the Pale.

Carlos Orange

Augeo wrote: »

No mention of 25-35% there.....

I'm not lucky enough to have lived in subsidised accommodation. I have paid the market rate for mine and then subsidised others subsidised accommodation.

ebbsy

Emme wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1011/823151-iarnrod-eireann-car-park/

I am sick of being screwed for my hard earned salary by all and sundry. Sick of trying to find a seat on a train in the morning full of people who don't pay anything to travel and could more than likely travel on a later train if they wished. Sick of racketeering extortionist borderline criminal car park operators who make the Kray twins look like amateurs. A woman who put her valid parking ticket upside down in her car was clamped in my local train station car park.

It is getting to the stage where it is costing me too much to travel to work and I might be better off sitting on my backside all day on benefits. I am not the only person who feels this way. No offence to those who lost their jobs through no fault of their own in recent years. However the cost of working is getting more and more unsustainable. Increases in car tax, car insurance, commuting ticket costs and now parking costs at the local train station. Throw the odd clamping fine in for good measure.

This government seems to be hell bent on destroying rural Ireland and locating as many jobs in Dublin as possible What incentive is there to work in this country when the roads to Dublin are clogged every morning by 7am, rail travel costs a fortune, rent and housing in the Dublin is unaffordable for people on an average salary and if you live outside the city and commute most of your disposable income is eaten up by commuting costs.

No wonder some people don't see the point of working.

Fantastic post.