The cost of travelling to work is becoming unsustainable

Chuchote

Augeo wrote: »

You pay tiny rent alligned to quite generous net income rates.

It's a total joke, folks who need social housing on a waiting list while the swindling stock of social housing is largely sheltering folks on decent money.

This simply isn't so.

Emme

Emme wrote: »

If you read the entire thread you will see where I pointed out that some people are unemployed through no fault of their own. The majority of unemployed people.

There is also a minority who abuse the system and one such person said to me that I'm a fool for working and an even bigger fool for paying thousands to get there. This when I was knackered at the end of a long week working and commuting. This person has a better standard of life than most unemployed people, she goes on holidays twice a year and doesn't seem to want to find work.

Your original post sounds like
(a) you have a gripe with the number of people travelling for free on the public transport you use.
(b) you have a gripe with the cost of commuting.

I was pointing out that unemployed people do NOT have free travel. One may be entitled to free travel if you are permanently living in the State and: You are aged 66 or over. You are getting Disability Allowance, Blind Pension, Carer's Allowance or an Invalidity Pension from the Department of Social Protection. What makes you thing they are all travelling at the same time as you?
The cost of commuting or indeed any method of travelling to work or for leisure, is pretty dear, but is a choice one must make.

BTW, Life on the Dole can be soul destroying. Ask anyone who is used to paying their own way and has a work ethic and they will tell you.

Chuchote

Chuchote wrote: »

This simply isn't so.

It's in the link you posted.
Under 15% of net income.

Chuchote

Augeo wrote: »

It's in the link you posted.
Under 15% of net income.

Sorry, what I was saying isn't so was your statement: "It's a total joke, folks who need social housing on a waiting list while the swindling stock of social housing is largely sheltering folks on decent money."

That's not so.

hytrogen

Banjoxed wrote:

That is masochism in its purest form. If I lived in Carrickmacross I'd drive to Dundalk and take the train to Dublin instead.

Deleted User wrote:

Be better taking the bus from Dundalk tbh.

Be grand on the train from Navan if that still ran..

magicbastarder

hannible the cannible wrote: »

I was wondering the same . I also wondered what an unemployed person would be doing taking the train to Dublin every day

maybe not every day, but the act of looking for and securing a job might involve a good bit of travel.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe not every day, but the act of looking for and securing a job might involve a good bit of travel.

But not a peak time. Surely it's cheaper to travel off peak?

magicbastarder

depends when your job interview might be scheduled for, i suppose.

end of the road

Augeo wrote: »

That's half the reason we are short of council housing.
Many of the occupants wouldn't get one based on their current situation...... why build more when many end up as a perk off the state.

because to solve everything in relation to the countries housing needs we can't either
1. simply rely on the private rental market, it costs a lot more long term and it's unsustainible to rely on it.
2. simply rely on everyone being able to get a mortgage as some are just unmortgageible and (rightly) the banks aren't giving mortgages out like sweets, we saw what happened when they were. that also cost and was unsustainible
so we need a third option, social/council housing for those of a low income including the huge number of low income workers.

Carlos Orange

end of the road wrote: »

so we need a third option, social/council housing for those of a low income including the huge number of low income workers.

That doesn't really address the question of why people who don't qualify for council homes because they don't have a low income should be allowed to live in them because they once qualified.

Kadser

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

There's one possible solution OP - Emigrate.

Or become homeless and sleep in Dublin City centre. Free soup and sandwiches most nights offered by several charities and you won't need to commute to the job.

end of the road

Emme wrote: »

I do have a problem with the lack of capacity on rush hour trains.

your problem is with the government, irish rail and the NTA/DTA/TFI/whatever they call themselves this week. not other people.

Emme wrote: »

It is not fair for one set of passengers to have to stand while others get to sit purely because they get on earlier on the line.

of course it is . if people get on a few stations before you and they're are seats availible then why shouldn't those people have them. should some of those be forced to stand so some from other stations can get seats? if people finish work a few minutes earlier then you and they arrive at the station earlier and get seats then why shouldn't they have them. should they be forced out of their seats because they might be going to stations before yours, just so you can have a seat?

Deleted User wrote: »

But not a peak time. Surely it's cheaper to travel off peak?

it would be, but they will rightly plan their travel time around their interview/interviews.

elperello

ted1 wrote: »

So those people aren't available for work and shouldn't receive JSA. Hospital have staff and the relative can generally cope for an hour.

If someone is volunteering for a charity why should they be getting free travel , should they not be working ? I've no problem with people volunteering but if they are getting free travel then that's a charity donation and I'd rather select what charity my taxes go to

You don't get free travel for going to work in a charity but people who have free travel may be volunteers.

The gist of my post was that there are many ways people contribute to society other than just in paid employment.

Nomis21

ted1 wrote: »

So those people aren't available for work and shouldn't receive JSA. Hospital have staff and the relative can generally cope for an hour.

If someone is volunteering for a charity why should they be getting free travel , should they not be working ? I've no problem with people volunteering but if they are getting free travel then that's a charity donation and I'd rather select what charity my taxes go to

You don't get a free travel pass for being on JSA or being unemployed.

The pass is given to those on disability allowance and those over 66 years old who may choose to do unpaid charity work and may need to use public transport to get to it.

magicbastarder

i thought being over 66 gave you a free pass, regardless of whether you're doing charity work?
or is the pass you get being over 66 limited in some way? my folks have it but generally use it on the train, i don't know their experiences on the buses.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

i thought being over 66 gave you a free pass, regardless of whether you're doing charity work?
or is the pass you get being over 66 limited in some way? my folks have it but generally use it on the train, i don't know their experiences on the buses.

Can be used on all public transport, trains, busses, luas, dart

Ave Sodalis

psinno wrote:

That doesn't really address the question of why people who don't qualify for council homes because they don't have a low income should be allowed to live in them because they once qualified.

What on earth has this to do woth over packed public transport during peak hours?

Carlos Orange

sup_dude wrote: »

What on earth has this to do woth over packed public transport during peak hours?

Seems like a bit of a tangent to be sure but why reply to something and not address what you are replying to.

elperello

magicbastarder wrote: »

i thought being over 66 gave you a free pass, regardless of whether you're doing charity work?
or is the pass you get being over 66 limited in some way? my folks have it but generally use it on the train, i don't know their experiences on the buses.

You are right, over 66 gets the pass and why they chose to travel on bus or train is their own business.

People travel for all sorts of reasons and they should not be segregated or discriminated against.

(by the way I don't have free travel)

Carlos Orange

elperello wrote: »

People travel for all sorts of reasons and they should not be segregated or discriminated against.

Is it discrimination to charge everyone to travel at peak hours?

Donal55

psinno wrote: »

Is it discrimination to charge everyone to travel at peak hours?

Im almost certain that OAP free travel passes restrict users from buses at peak times.
Must check with mother in law. Gulp.

elperello

psinno wrote: »

Is it discrimination to charge everyone to travel at peak hours?

Yes because free means free not judging whether your need to travel is a "worthy" need or not.

People who have free travel have satisfied the criteria to get it and if they need to travel then they will be on the train or bus regardless of whether they pay or not.

All you are doing by charging them for travel at certain times is imposing unnecessary expense and inconvenience on them.

Donal55

Donal55 wrote: »

Im almost certain that OAP free travel passes restrict users from buses at peak times.
Must check with mother in law. Gulp.

There are no travel or time restrictions.

"Where free travel can be used
Free travel is available on most Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus, Dart and Luas Services and on certain private bus and ferry services. Free travel does not include some special services such as Dublin Bus NITELINK and AIRLINK services. You may also travel free of charge on certain cross-border services between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

If you are permanently living on any of the Aran Islands, you may get up to 12 single (or 6 return) air trips each year between the islands and the mainland. People who live permanently on Tory Island (Co. Donegal) are entitled to a 8 (or 4 return) free journeys on the seasonal helicopter service operating between the island and the mainland.

There are no restrictions on the times you can use your Free Travel Card."

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html

Annasopra

Del2005 wrote: »

We should be building more social housing, but we also need to ensure that its been used for people who need it. If people in social housing can afford to run a new car and take foreign holidays then they don't need social housing and should be moved on so that the next needy person can get a helping hand.

This attitude makes no sense. It's judgemental of people who do better through employment and it also wants to ghettoise social housing areas into only those in extreme poverty and the unemployed. It's a recipe for social marginalisation and isolation and creating intergenerational unemployment, and poverty and welfare dependency and discintentivising class mobility and uptake of employment opportunities.

Annasopra

psinno wrote: »

That doesn't really address the question of why people who don't qualify for council homes because they don't have a low income should be allowed to live in them because they once qualified.

Because ghettos of social housing estates with only the extreme poor and unemployed living there are a bad thing.

road_high

pilly wrote: »

Only solution is to look for a job closer to where you live, even if it's less well paid. You'll save a whole load of money and stress.

There's nothing like working close to home.

I don't know what the OP is qualified in but there's plenty of jobs here in Kilkenny which would be far closer than Dublin everyday.

hytrogen

Joeytheparrot wrote:

This attitude makes no sense. It's judgemental of people who do better through employment and it also wants to ghettoise social housing areas into only those in extreme poverty and the unemployed. It's a recipe for social marginalisation and isolation and creating intergenerational unemployment, and poverty and welfare dependency and discintentivising class mobility and uptake of employment opportunities.

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Because ghettos of social housing estates with only the extreme poor and unemployed living there are a bad thing.

It's a shame the term "social housing" has been vilified as a term "for the unemployed or unemployable" in this country. Like the "travelling community" vilified for being translucent and unsettled. Painted by the same filthy unwelcoming brush. In many other countries the term, or what we should be clarifying on, is state owned housing where the people rent from the state and not a private landlord be you employed or not. That is what a healthy property market has, a balance between state owned and privately owned accommodation, but I'll leave that to the Accommo forum for further discussion. We had that once, the houses owned by the state-owned railway for the railway workers & their families in many small towns or villages and it worked but to name one example. Funny how history is washed down the drain

road_high

Are there any restrictions on free pass travel holders using public transport during peak hours? Seems like the obvious solution and would increase actual hard cash revenue to CIE etc which is what they really need.

91wx763

Deleted User wrote: »

Emme wrote: »

I am sick of being screwed for my hard earned salary by all and sundry. Sick of trying to find a seat on a train in the morning full of people who don't pay anything to travel and could more than likely travel on a later train if they wished. Sick of racketeering extortionist borderline criminal car park operators who make the Kray twins look like amateurs.

Are you the only worker who pays train fare or are you having a pop at those who may be genuinely unable to either work or get work?

However, I DO agree that they should only be allowed travel offpeak or like the UK system, only within a certain radius of their home. Should they need to travel at peak times or outside this radius, they should be able to claim pack a portion of their travel costs.

Sitting on ones backside on the dole is torture for one used to and willing to work.

NOBODY in the UK, (except for retired rail staff and staff members travelling on their own franchise's trains) gets free travel. I work in the industry and regularly get offered Irish free travel passes and am treated with beligerence as to why they have to pay !!!!

road_high

91wx763 wrote: »

NOBODY in the UK, (except for retired rail staff and staff members travelling on their own franchise's trains) gets free travel. I work in the industry and regularly get offered Irish free travel passes and am treated with beligerence as to why they have to pay !!!!

In Ireland OAP's don't realise how good they have it...all I ever hear is whine whine whine incessantly. I think it's great they are well treated but i'm firmly of the opinion it is at the expense of young people and middle income workers. Who effectively see 0 benefit to paying huge taxes.

Donal55

road_high wrote: »

In Ireland OAP's don't realise how good they have it...all I ever hear is whine whine whine incessantly. I think it's great they are well treated but i'm firmly of the opinion it is at the expense of young people and middle income workers. Who effectively see 0 benefit to paying huge taxes.

The same huge taxes OAPs also paid.

road_high

Donal55 wrote: »

The same huge taxes OAPs also paid.

Wrong...state pension payments come out of current expenditure. Their taxes funded pensions of the past, which were far lower

elperello

road_high wrote: »

Wrong...state pension payments come out of current expenditure. Their taxes funded pensions of the past, which were far lower

Think back to the really hard times when we managed to look after the old timers. Of course the taxes of the people working today pay for the pensions just as they paid for those before them.That's the way it works for good or bad.

Don't worry about older people giving out, it comes with the territory, your day will come too cheer up.

Donal55

road_high wrote: »

Wrong...state pension payments come out of current expenditure. Their taxes funded pensions of the past, which were far lower

...also paid. Taxes.

mayway

Carawaystick wrote: »

Where do you live and where do you work?
How does an increase in car tax or car insurance affect the cost of travelling to work? You'ld have to pay that if you had a car and didn't work. You even have to pay it if you just get the train and don't use your car.

Seriously? You don't understand how an increase in car tax and insurance doesn't make a car more expensive? Come on.

mayway

I find budgeting very easy and tremendous fun.

Start with what you earn net. Say 12000. Subtract what you have to spend eg food, rent, etc. What you're left with then what you afford to spend on luxury items e.g. nights out, pub, off license, car, bus fare, etc.

If you find that you can't afford a car then get rid of it. Similarly for bus and train fares, if you can't afford them then don't use them. To get work you can simply walk. If it's further that 5 or 6 miles then get a bike. Simple! If you're 50 miles away then move or get a different job closer to where you live. Also, you can solve the no seat on the train problem by moving to the end of the line so the train will start at your station with all seats available! Problem solved.

You are welcome.

mayway

Banjoxed wrote: »

n97 mini wrote: »

There is something insane about commuters having 100km+ commutes to Dublin. But not as insane as the low rise building regulations in Dublin. The docklands areas should be full of high rise. IFSC is Dublin's answer to Canary Wharf... yeah right!

100km+ commutes are insane. Why spend so much of your life commuting? Ridiculous.

Anything more than 20-25 minutes is just wrong. I live in Dublin on a 1/2 acre which allows me and my family plenty space. My commute is 20 minutes each way and I have a second 4 bedroom house in Drumcondra which I bought 15 years ago and I rent out.

You can achieve whatever you want if you are prepared to work for it.

magicbastarder

i'm delighted for you, but why are you telling us about how well you've done in life?

mayway

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm delighted for you, but why are you telling us about how well you've done in life?

Just trying to offer some hope to the whingers out there.

hannible the cannible

mayway wrote: »

Just trying to offer some hope to the whingers out there.

Yes , the hope that they don't turn out to be someone like you

cython

mayway wrote: »

Seriously? You don't understand how an increase in car tax and insurance doesn't make a car more expensive? Come on.

As has already been explained, while increases in motor tax and insurance obviously affect the cost of owning and operating a car, since they are pretty much flat rate expenses (in my experience the question about annual mileage on insurance quotes has a negligible influence) they impact the cost of commuting to and from work if and only if you only have the car because you need it to get to and from work. If you would otherwise get rid of the car, then fine, they add to the cost of commuting. However the majority of car owners in Ireland are not in this situation (myself included, I don't drive to work), and as such they are an added lifestyle cost, and thus discretionary expenses.

magicbastarder

i own a car and do not use it to get to work. as such, increases in motor tax and insurance do not impact my cost of commuting in any way.

91wx763

91wx763 wrote: »

NOBODY in the UK, (except for retired rail staff and staff members travelling on their own franchise's trains) gets free travel. I work in the industry and regularly get offered Irish free travel passes and am treated with beligerence as to why they have to pay !!!!

Pensioners in England get free travel in their local area, by bus. Unlike Ireland where they can travel the country on any public transport, at any time of day or night for free.

Annasopra

road_high wrote: »

Are there any restrictions on free pass travel holders using public transport during peak hours? Seems like the obvious solution and would increase actual hard cash revenue to CIE etc which is what they really need.

No there isn't

Why on earth should there be?

Annasopra

road_high wrote: »

Wrong...state pension payments come out of current expenditure. Their taxes funded pensions of the past, which were far lower

Right so they never paid any taxes in their lives and fūck them basically

appfry

I recently retired. Not old enough to get the OAP for a good few years yet, but we got rid of one car as we dont both need to go different directions to work anymore and the amount of money we save per year now is massive.

Amazing the difference not having to commute is, as well as going down to just one car. Its worth the same as a mortgage.
Dont underestimate what your commute costs you, especially if you are a couple who have to run two cars.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

because to solve everything in relation to the countries housing needs we can't either
1. simply rely on the private rental market, it costs a lot more long term and it's unsustainible to rely on it.
2. simply rely on everyone being able to get a mortgage as some are just unmortgageible and (rightly) the banks aren't giving mortgages out like sweets, we saw what happened when they were. that also cost and was unsustainible
so we need a third option, social/council housing for those of a low income including the huge number of low income workers.

Enough social housing as a 3rf option will never be built.
If we resort to that too many will get on the gravy train.

As you say there's a huge number of low income workers. Being on low income & being handed a council house isn't a solution to anything from a big picture viewpoint.

TheAnalyst_

Ultimately if you have only yourself to blame. You have the power to change yoru situation. If a 2 hour commute each way to the midlands is your only solution then suck it up.

I drive 1.5km to my job. It takes a few minutes in city traffic. I have free parking and pay no motor tax or tax on my fuel. It makes my life a daily pleasure.
I did the sums and left Ireland years ago and I always crack a smile when my old mates whatsapp group is alight about 3 hour delays on the m50.

magicbastarder

why would you even bother driving 1.5km?

Annasopra

Augeo wrote: »

Enough social housing as a 3rf option will never be built.
If we resort to that too many will get on the gravy train.

As you say there's a huge number of low income workers. Being on low income & being handed a council house isn't a solution to anything from a big picture viewpoint.

It absolutely is. It adresses issues of homelessness, poverty, social exclusion.