Small claims agains Apple

jarvis

Hi

Hoping someone with experience can tell me if I can make a claim in small claims court against Apple? I bought and iPhone 7plus 256gb from Apple.com/IE on the pre sale launch day (sept 9th). I received the phone on October 3rd. I paid €1139.

On Oct 15th (12 days later) when the lights above me shine a certain way I caught a glimpse of a really small crack/scratch on the screen and got on to Apple live chat where i spoke to a senior advisor based in USA.

I told him it came like this and he said Apple would never send out a phone with that fault. I sent a picture and he couldn't see it. I used an app to draw a red circle on the pic and he then seen it. He said it was an unusual place to be and that he would arrange a repair once I understood it was a once off only and that I would need to pay for any further repairs.
I agreed. They sent a ups courier to collect the phone the following Wednesday and could track that they received it on the Friday . I got an email on Monday (24th) saying it was being returned unrepaired as they couldn't find an issue!!!!

So I got back on to chat. New person on chat spoke to me for 2 hours and said if I get it back and it still needs repairing I can raise another repair request. I declined this offer because they couldn't see the issue already even though I pinpointed it with a red mark and that I paid €1139 on sept 9th and still haven't been able to enjoy my phone. There's no Apple Store in Ireland so she said I could go to a CompuB store to have the repair done there if they had the equipment. I was told I needed to call them myself to check if they had it. I called they didn't have it and offered to send it back to Apple for me for a repair fee of €200 so I declined this older too.

I emailed and told them I wanted a refund or a replacement phone. They said they can't discuss via email and asked me to join a live chat the following day (today). I had this chat and it was the same story. I explained that his comment that Apple wouldn't send out a phone with this fault is void because now they have sent it to me twice without being able to see this fault and that I no longer want them to repair the phone and re send it to me as repaired or reconditioned because I spent so much money and I am now 200% certain they sent it with the fault because they sent it back with the same faint a second time.

So he refused a replacement phone or refund. And continued to say we can look at it again if you send it back.

I want to go further with this. Is the small claims court the right avenue because it was online? I can't find Apple in the list of registered companies on the small claims court website.

I'm so angry about the whole thing in fit to kill someone.

Would appreciate any advice and sorry for the long story but believe it or not this is a fraction of the nonsense in summary. I have the chat logs we've had.

Paulw

jarvis wrote: »

Is the small claims court the right avenue because it was online? I can't find Apple in the list of registered companies on the small claims court website.

Sounds like small claims court is your next step.

Their legal address in Ireland -
http://www.apple.com/ie/pr/
Corporate Address

Apple Distribution International
Hollyhill Industrial Estate
Hollyhill, Cork
Republic of Ireland

goz83

Am I incorrect to say that a fault within 28 days would be a replacement, rather than repair? I know when I worked for Meteor/Eircom, this was the case. After 28 days, the normal warranty took over. As long as the fault was reported within 28 days of purchase/delivery, this would apply.

jarvis

goz83 wrote: »

Am I incorrect to say that a fault within 28 days would be a replacement, rather than repair? I know when I worked for Meteor/Eircom, this was the case. After 28 days, the normal warranty took over. As long as the fault was reported within 28 days of purchase/delivery, this would apply.

I emailed back because I recalled in the last chat he said I was 1 day out of warranty. I received it Oct 3 and reported Oct 15. So I asked in the email was it an 11 day warranty. I await how reply. Maybe he's taking sept 9th as the first day but surely it's only from when I receive it?

Tzardine

jarvis wrote: »

So he refused a replacement phone or refund. And continued to say we can look at it again if you send it back.

I think that if you go to to the small claims at this point Apple will just say that they offered to have another look and repair the fault.

If it was me, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and send it back again. I would make sure there is something with it showing where the fault is.

jarvis

Tzardine wrote: »

I think that if you go to to the small claims at this point Apple will just say that they offered to have another look and repair the fault.

If it was me, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and send it back again. I would make sure there is something with it showing where the fault is.

Yeah I know that's a possibility but I'm willing to take that chance. Especially since I put a red circle around the spot in a pic and sent it to them so they knew the exact location of the fault. And o have the chat log where he said 'Apple wouldn't ever send out a product with a flaw such as that so it was shipped like that'. Well then returning it unrepaired proves that they would!

davo10

I've always found Apple terrific to deal with, as s family we have had over 20 apple products including iPods/phones/iPads/MacBooks and whenever there has been a problem they sorted it straight away including replacing a 2year old iPad which developed an unlocking problem and an iPhone which wouldn't charge even though it had been battered by my son.

I think you are being unreasonable, the scratch may not have been on it when you recieved it and may have occurred during the 12 days you had it. They took it back and couldn't find a fault and they are willing to examine it again and repair it for you. Screens get scratched. I really don't see why you want to go down the road of SCC and given the fact that they are willing to examine/repair something you may have caused, it's hard to see how you could win. They will also have a record of all the chats.

runawaybishop

This scratch is so small you can only see it in certain light by angling it carefully and apple techs didn't see it in inspection? I doubt you will have much joy proving you didn't scratch it and if it's barely noticeable it may not be worth the hassle. As apple offers to have a look again you should try that option first.

njs030

I'm wondering how you're going to prove the scratch was on it when you received it as you didn't report it for 12 days?

jarvis

notjustsweet wrote: »

I'm wondering how you're going to prove the scratch was on it when you received it as you didn't report it for 12 days?

Yeah I don't know. It's barely visible but once you see it you can't unsee it. Yes it took me 12 days to find it but they didn't find it at all even with a photo and a red ring around it so the fact they returned it without finding it supports my theory that their QC dept didn't find it either and shipped it like that. Because they told me 'Apple wouldn't ever ship an phone with a flaw like that' which clearly they did when they sent it back.
I don't want their offer of screen replacement because I don't want a 'reconditioned' iPhone that cost €1139

jarvis

I've completed the online small claim but I haven't submitted it yet. I'm gonna make one more call to Apple to clear up the warranty start date as I believe they're using sept 9th rather than oct 3rd. If I get no joy I'll press submit. It's €25 and I've nothing to lose other than the €25

runawaybishop

jarvis wrote: »

I've completed the online small claim but I haven't submitted it yet. I'm gonna make one more call to Apple to clear up the warranty start date as I believe they're using sept 9th rather than oct 3rd. If I get no joy I'll press submit. It's €25 and I've nothing to lose other than the €25

If apple have offered to fix it then you'd be better off just chucking the 25 quid out the door. First thing you will be asked is why did you not send it off again.

davindub

Paulw wrote: »

Sounds like small claims court is your next step.

Their legal address in Ireland -
http://www.apple.com/ie/pr/
Corporate Address

Apple Distribution International
Hollyhill Industrial Estate
Hollyhill, Cork
Republic of Ireland

Apple Distribution International LTD .... make sure you quote the correct company name including LTD, or else the judge will have to ask the companies permission to change the name so the case can proceed, happens a lot, or it would be a good excuse for Apple not to turn up.

If you are not happy with the condition of the phone go ahead and apply to the small claims court, you reported the issue promptly, it is a defect even if slight, based on what you have said it seems reasonable to take a case under the sale of goods act.

drunkmonkey

You may burn that €25, your at nothing starting with the scc that's a last resort not a first resort.
Send the phone to Apple and play it from there.
The scc is by no means a picnic and easy to win.

jarvis

runawaybishop wrote: »

If apple have offered to fix it then you'd be better off just chucking the 25 quid out the door. First thing you will be asked is why did you not send it off again.

Because I don't want a repaired iPhone. I want a New iPhone.

degsie

Any chance you could upload the pic here so we know what sort of scratch it is?

runawaybishop

jarvis wrote: »

Because I don't want a repaired iPhone. I want a New iPhone.

Apple are entitled to offer a repair. Tbh that is more than you'd normally get for a scratch that you can't prove was there initially.

jarvis

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You may burn that €25, your at nothing starting with the scc that's a last resort not a first resort.
Send the phone to Apple and play it from there.
The scc is by no means a picnic and easy to win.

I find them two stressful to deal with so can't bring myself to deal with a realit again. I have chat logs totaling 4.5hrs where they type computer generated statements and it has impacted on my mood on each occasion I've been in contact which is unreasonable!

runawaybishop

jarvis wrote: »

I find them two stressful to deal with so can't bring myself to deal with a realit again. I have chat logs totaling 4.5hrs where they type computer generated statements and it has impacted on my mood on each occasion I've been in contact which is unreasonable!

The court won't care about that. They have offered to look at it again. Once apple state that the case will be closed.

jarvis

runawaybishop wrote: »

Apple are entitled to offer a repair. Tbh that is more than you'd normally get for a scratch that you can't prove was there initially.

Really? I suppose I'll take whatever the best scenario is but I'm gonna aim for replacement.

runawaybishop

jarvis wrote: »

Really? I suppose I'll take whatever the best scenario is but I'm gonna aim for replacement.

Your best course of action is apple imo. You didn't take out insurance?

Tzardine

jarvis wrote: »

Because I don't want a repaired iPhone. I want a New iPhone.

There is no obligation on Apple to give you a new phone though. A repair is perfectly reasonable.

I think that maybe the repair technician did not have the photo you provided with the scratch highlighted.

Its possible that if the scratch is so small like you say that he missed it. Not impossible if you are probably looking at 50 phones a day.

I would take apple up on their offer to take the phone in for repair. Clearly identify the mark on the screen for the repair guy.

jarvis

Thanks for all the input folks. Really appreciate it. I'll lose if you guys are on the jury but I'm off on holidays for two weeks on Saturday so I'm gonna ride this scc train and risk my €25 and they'll have 15 days to reply so we'll see how it goes from there.

Thanks again

RoyalMarine

Would it not just be worth your while to drive to Belfast?

It's not a big country and if you travel at the right time of the day (not rush hour) traffic is good on motorway's...

Save your self the hassle and go to the Apple Store..

jarvis

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Would it not just be worth your while to drive to Belfast?

It's not a big country and if you travel at the right time of the day (not rush hour) traffic is good on motorway's...

Save your self the hassle and go to the Apple Store..

Off to Orlando on saturday for two weeks.

degsie

jarvis wrote: »

Off to Orlando on saturday for two weeks.

That's a long way just to visit an Apple store :eek:

foggy_lad

runawaybishop wrote: »

If apple have offered to fix it then you'd be better off just chucking the 25 quid out the door. First thing you will be asked is why did you not send it off again.

Tzardine wrote: »

There is no obligation on Apple to give you a new phone though. A repair is perfectly reasonable.

I think that maybe the repair technician did not have the photo you provided with the scratch highlighted.

Its possible that if the scratch is so small like you say that he missed it. Not impossible if you are probably looking at 50 phones a day.

I would take apple up on their offer to take the phone in for repair. Clearly identify the mark on the screen for the repair guy.

For an item costing over €1100 a repair will take from the value of the item so much so that it will no longer be considered new but used and refurbished. In this case a replacement would be more appropriate.

runawaybishop

foggy_lad wrote: »

For an item costing over €1100 a repair will take from the value of the item so much so that it will no longer be considered new but used and refurbished. In this case a replacement would be more appropriate.

Potentially, but apple refurb to as new condition.

Good luck in scc op.

Tzardine

foggy_lad wrote: »

For an item costing over €1100 a repair will take from the value of the item so much so that it will no longer be considered new but used and refurbished. In this case a replacement would be more appropriate.

A replacement screen fitted by apple themselves will not affect the value at all.

Alpha_zero

It should have been replaced under the remorse period.

foggy_lad

Tzardine wrote: »

A replacement screen fitted by apple themselves will not affect the value at all.

If the OP goes to sell on the phone will the new owners see that the screen has been replaced from Apples records on the phone? Yes they will and that takes from the value of the phone.