Could you imagine this here?

Cass

Cannot really describe it so will just leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5capbhKlVA

gunny123

Happen here ? Too much of a nanny state for it to happen here, imagine the meltdown the AAA/PBP leftie loons would have if they seen that, not to mention the cops.

Nekarsulm

As far as I know, it happens on the Curragh. But they close the road beforehand......

tac foley

The chances of a mis-aimed bullet hitting anything on or even near the highway are nil. That backstop wall prevents it. And bullet don't fall out of the sky in mid-flight, even at 300m. Apogee of the nearest thing I can find - 168gr in a .308"in at a m/v of 2650 [the same as GP11] is between 7.9 and 8.6 inches - the same as the POI drop. Those targets are way higher than the highway....

Gradient profile is -

Firing point - 2090ft amsl.

Butts - 2202/2015ft amsl.

The targets are at least 112ft higher than the firing point.

As BOTR notes, the traffic isn't bothered by this at all. Why should it be? This is Switzerland, where almost every village has its own 300m range so that, on a Sunday, you can go to church, and then after lunch, go shoot on the range. 'Autres pays, autres facons'.

tac
www.swissrifles.com

It would never happen here. The argument would go "But what if a child...".

tac foley

Deleted User wrote: »

It would never happen here. The argument would go "But what if a child...".

Well, I guess that if a child actually STOOD on the protective wall, and the shooter didn't notice him/her, and fired anyhow, the child might just catch a bullet, but what do YOU think?

tac

tac foley

tac foley wrote: »

Well, I guess that if a child actually STOOD on the protective wall, and the shooter didn't notice him/her, and fired anyhow, the child might just catch a bullet, but what do YOU think?

tac

I think it would never happen. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that ballistics don't work that way. Rounds don't drop from the sky, and if the backstop wall is positioned right there is no way you can aim that would pose a threat to the cars, but even so the argument would still go "But what if a child got hit?". The counter argument would be, but its not scientifically possible, and the counter argument to that would be "Ah, but science doesn't know everything!".

Next thing you know you are splitting hairs with the uninformed.

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

The chances of a mis-aimed bullet hitting anything on or even near the highway are nil. That backstop wall prevents it. And bullet don't fall out of the sky in mid-flight, even at 300m. Apogee of the nearest thing I can find - 168gr in a .308"in at a m/v of 2650 [the same as GP11] is between 7.9 and 8.6 inches - the same as the POI drop. Those targets are way higher than the highway....

Gradient profile is -

Firing point - 2090ft amsl.

Butts - 2202/2015ft amsl.

The targets are at least 112ft higher than the firing point.

As BOTR notes, the traffic isn't bothered by this at all. Why should it be? This is Switzerland, where almost every village has its own 300m range so that, on a Sunday, you can go to church, and then after lunch, go shoot on the range. 'Autres pays, autres facons'.

tac
www.swissrifles.com

Switzerland doesn't have an army, Switzerland IS an army.

tac foley

In Switzerland, even a child knows not to try climbing over a security fence to get to a target and stand in front of it. In general, the Common Law of the land makes the broad assumption that the actions of 'a rational person' will not place them in imminent danger of death from multiple bullet wounds by walking across the 'incoming' face of the target end of a live-firing range.

I'm not in a position to say whether or not that happens in the Republic of Ireland on a regular or irregular basis, but it doesn't happen in Switzerland.

tac

tac foley

Just to put things into perspective here, and then I'm gone -

Population of the Republic of Ireland - 4.6M
Republic of Ireland accidental gun deaths 2013 - 5

Population of Switzerland - 8M
Switzerland accidental gun deaths 2013 - 3

With a population almost double that of the RoI, and one in which 30-40% of the population at any time have access [albeit under controlled conditions] to the latest type of military firearms, including FA assault rifles and light machine guns, let aone the vast numbers of privately-owned firearms, the accident rate from firearms - given the vast difference in population numbers - is 30% of yours.

tac

Tac Foley, you are confusing the sensible can-do, common sense attitude of the Swiss, with the NIMBY-ism, wont someone think of the children attitude prevalent in Irish society. Not to mention the "guns are bad" attitude, hence all the hoops you have to go through to get a license.

You also seem to think I'm against a range like that, I'm not, I'm just pointing out the realities.

tac foley

Being a furriner, I could not possibly comment on something as nebulous as racial attitude.

The first line of post #10 applies.

tac

gunny123

Deleted User wrote: »

Tac Foley, you are confusing the sensible can-do, common sense attitude of the Swiss, with the NIMBY-ism, wont someone think of the children attitude prevalent in Irish society. Not to mention the "guns are bad" attitude, hence all the hoops you have to go through to get a license.

You also seem to think I'm against a range like that, I'm not, I'm just pointing out the realities.

Not to mention the sense of being entitled to meddle, interfere, comment on, and otherwise get involved in things that are absolutely none of your business. A very irish trait.

Nekarsulm

Could you believe THIS:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/localnotes/kids-climbing-substation-prompts-warning-from-residents-27110297.html

Or THIS:

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/teen-who-electrocuted-after-hammered-6628317

700,000! FFS

Cass

tac foley. I did not post the video to say "God would you look how reckless they are". I did it to show what can be done when people that understand firearms work together.

Here, in Ireland, the range rules are so archaic you wouldn't believe them. No stones over 1" in any area along the range. No metal objects facing the firing points including the heads of nails/screws used to construct the target systems. Danger areas up to an including 2km. Most definitely no shooting in or close to a road of any proportion. Did you know if an animal is injured or shot on a range that the range must be shut down, a VET called, then an investigation and finally a safety report done with repairs to prevent it from happening again. So if a bird flew along the target boards during a detail and got struck (act of God) all this has to be done.

Some might seem like legit proposals and i'm not calling for the safety book to be thrown out the window, but in it's entire history shooting sports in Ireland has never claimed one life through accident. This record is not because of strict guidelines and rigid enforcement by the authorities, it is self enforced and through the good sense and practices of those participating in the sport.

The idea of the thread, and the video is to applaud the common sense approach to gun ownership and usage that is enjoyed across the world where people understand and respect firearms, not fear and loathe them out of ignorance.

Nekarsulm - Might seem harsh and probably not a popular view, but it's Darwinism at it's best. You don't have to do anything to these people, simply remove the warning labels and let nature take its course.

It's like the lady that was out walking, fell, then sued for €40,000 (or something like that). We live in a litigious society that is spiraling rapidly out of hand and approaching new levels for daftness. Tort law in this country needs addressed before it gets out of hand.

Grizzly 45

You don't have to do anything to these people, simply remove the warning labels and let nature take sits course.

That is a fact.. ..Unfortunatly for the remaining few of us who weren't born mentally defective and grew up plain stupid,life is becoming increasingly difficult as then when some fukwitt after reciving 500 thousand volts gets a 700 grand cheque,you will have window lickers galore out looking for something to injure themselves with and get a big payout. The PTB then over compensate for saftey and security under the guise of Always Be Covered and Cover Your Ass. Just a prize example of this would be the reloading set up in Midlands. When I tell people in the states about the set up and hassle that was had ,their comments are "Are you loading artillery shells or NBC weaponary?"
This is becoming a problem with the marching morons,they gain thru stupidity,and the people with common sense get penalised by having their use of something nice being restricted or banned because some fukwitt abuses it. Fireworks being a nice example in this time of year.When I grew up in Germany ,fireworks are only available between the 26th and 31st of Dec,any tabacconist kiosk that has a liscense can sell them to anyone over 18. Parents buy their kids them and are entitled to use them under adult supervision Of course some fool be they adult or kid will do something daft and lose a few fingers or get a flash burn.Thus triggering the usual round of "ban them all" fools who whine anyway every year about fireworks on new years eve,and go and starve themselves for the 3rd world on NYE night to prove their moral superiority... Thing is,you dont have the utter criminal idiocy that you have here in Ireland with illegal cheap dangerous fireworks.There is no need for OAP's to barricade their letter boxes or keep their pets inside in the fear that some little cnuts will be stuffing bangers in the letter box or feeding Fido a banger and blowing its lower jaw off!:mad: Or some paranoid fear that some "terrorists and criminals might use the BP to make bombs." They just go and buy bulk nail polish and hair bleach if they are Muslims,or order stuff on the Darknet or pop over to Kaliningrad and bring a artics worth home. 1] Because the cops would take a very dim view of it and actively persue said little cnuts,and once found would be taking said parents of said scrotes to task and if underage.The parents are liable for the actions of their children and would find themselves in court paying fines and proably losing the scrotes as being unfit adults to mind children in the first place.Your kid dosses off a day in school without a very good explanation...350 euro fine per DAY!! You NEVER hear of some little bollix out on his 550th court charge running amuk again,and certainly never stupid compo sums for things that l a "reasonable person" would not do.By the time a personal injury case is heard in Germany,you are proably back on the mend and "Lourdes cures" when the cheque is handed out in court wont happen either as you will have been examined buy a battalion of doctors.
But then again this is a society where a bottled beer vending machine is de riguer in the office canteen or on the shop floor.[As beer is considerd a food stuff,not a alcoholic beverage].Simply because you are expected to have basic cop on about things and know that being pissed operating machinery is a no no and if you do cause an accident because of it,it will be your job thats gone.

Us OTOH are "Give me a tit to suck on for life,and a state nanny to wipe my ass and nose,and if I have an accident nanny will make it all better with money and make sure all the other kiddies don't hurt themselves with the nasty.....Ever again". THAT'S WHY we cant have nice things in Ireland. We as a people and State need to seriously grow up a bit on some things like insurance fraud and personal responsibility as well as being responsible for our and our children's misdeeds.

gunny123

It isn't going to get any better Grizz, have you heard of "Generation Snowflake" perchance ? As Private Frazer would say in dads army - "WE'RE DOOMED".

clawback07

Hi there
I thought it was a very entertaining video . I could think of several sections of motorway here that could provide the same entertainment and challenges !! Seriously , I think we could beat ourselves forever with the crap we have to put up with here , and we all know that a range like that is unique - won't be seen here or in the U.K - Ever ! On the other hand , I was in Atlantic sports shop this evening at their open night - me and at least two hundred like minded shooters who don't get over heated about hypothetical rifle ranges that will never be and don't dwell on the pros and cons of a nanny state !
Well done Cass on throwing a size 12 hook and netting us all !!

Cass

clawback07 wrote: »

Well done Cass on throwing a size 12 hook and netting us all !!

Funny part is it was not my intention.

I only put the video up because i thought it was cool.

................ me and at least two hundred like minded shooters who don't get over heated about hypothetical rifle ranges that will never be and don't dwell on the pros and cons of a nanny state

90% will be on here or Facebook and have just as much to say, but never in public.

Not every topic here has to be serious, but after decades of being under the thumb it's hard to find the levity in some things. Plus it's a discussion forum, be a bit pointless if things were not discussed.

Heckler

Cass wrote: »

tac foley. I did not post the video to say "God would you look how reckless they are". I did it to show what can be done when people that understand firearms work together.

Here, in Ireland, the range rules are so archaic you wouldn't believe them. No stones over 1" in any area along the range. No metal objects facing the firing points including the heads of nails/screws used to construct the target systems. Danger areas up to an including 2km. Most definitely no shooting in or close to a road of any proportion. Did you know if an animal is injured or shot on a range that the range must be shut down, a VET called, then an investigation and finally a safety report done with repairs to prevent it from happening again. So if a bird flew along the target boards during a detail and got struck (act of God) all this has to be done.

Some might seem like legit proposals and i'm not calling for the safety book to be thrown out the window, but in it's entire history shooting sports in Ireland has never claimed one life through accident. This record is not because of strict guidelines and rigid enforcement by the authorities, it is self enforced and through the good sense and practices of those participating in the sport.

The idea of the thread, and the video is to applaud the common sense approach to gun ownership and usage that is enjoyed across the world where people understand and respect firearms, not fear and loathe them out of ignorance.

Nekarsulm - Might seem harsh and probably not a popular view, but it's Darwinism at it's best. You don't have to do anything to these people, simply remove the warning labels and let nature take its course.

It's like the lady that was out walking, fell, then sued for €40,000 (or something like that). We live in a litigious society that is spiraling rapidly out of hand and approaching new levels for daftness. Tort law in this country needs addressed before it gets out of hand.

Have had many a bunny and bird cross the firing line. Quick cease fire and alls been well. Can't imagine if a rabbit is accidently shot that we're going to shut down the range, call a vet etc, etc. Maybe you're supposed to but c'mon, not gonna happen.

goz83

Heckler wrote: »

Have had many a bunny and bird cross the firing line. Quick cease fire and alls been well. Can't imagine if a rabbit is accidently shot that we're going to shut down the range, call a vet etc, etc. Maybe you're supposed to but c'mon, not gonna happen.

I would quicker call the wife to tell her that I will be bringing dinner home

tac foley

@Cass - I don't bleeve I wrote anything that was not in support of your post. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

tac

Cass

All your points were valid and i agree. I merely posted again to explain that i posted the video not from a position of shock that this was allowed to happen anywhere, but from a position of "what if". IOW what if such a sensible approach was taken here and the unfounded, unwarranted and baseless fear of anything to do with firearms that exists in this country simply because they are firearms were to go away to an extent or at least be better understood.

Shooting sports in Ireland is older than the GAA, and has a better safety record than the GAA. It has the best safety record than any sport even those the tools we use in our sport are the most lethal. All that through self administration. The laws we work by have really only come into being in the last 30 years and a lot of legislation in the last 10. So for the previous 150 years, while there was legislation, we the shooting community took it upon ourselves to make the sport as safe as it is, and continue to do so.

Something we should all take great pride in.

clawback07

Heckler wrote: »

Have had many a bunny and bird cross the firing line. Quick cease fire and alls been well. Can't imagine if a rabbit is accidently shot that we're going to shut down the range, call a vet etc, etc. Maybe you're supposed to but c'mon, not gonna happen.

If memory serves me right there was a fireworks display at the end of the Rolling Stones concert in 1982 , and some of the pyro technics looked like small barrels that were fired up into the sky and I can still see a rook that was flying casually home when he connected with small barrel as it exploded ! I don't think the local vet would have got a great reception if he had tried to start an investigation that evening !
As I said in my post I found the video very entertaining and my other comments were not meant to belittle anyones' opinion . For many years I was Safety Officer in a gun club and thank f#@+ we had a 100% record during and since that time .Perhaps in this "nanny state " we Are a small bastion of responsible defiance even if we cannot shoot across the M7 !

tac foley

Cass wrote: »

Something we should all take great pride in.

Totally agree.

tac

minktrapper

Is it possible that a new road cut through an existing range. So the range had to be facilitated.

tac foley

More than likely - many ranges are separated from their firing points by meadow on which cattle and or sheep regularly graze. Given the general topography, it's hardly surprising. The only really flat bits are airfields or lakes.

Here is BOTR shooting his old K11 [the predecessor to the K31] - note the cows and their proximity to the target end. They are, of course, Swiss cows, and therefore deaf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1AqOxjYbZw

tac

gunny123

gunny123 wrote: »

Happen here ? Too much of a nanny state for it to happen here, imagine the meltdown the AAA/PBP leftie loons would have if they seen that, not to mention the cops.

In February last year Apple announced its plans for a data centre in Athenry and another in Denmark, bringing much needed jobs to Galway. Apparently about 350 jobs while its being built and 150 for standard operations. The one in Denmark is being built right now. The Athenry one is delayed by the Concerned Loons of Lysheenkyle and is now going to the highcourt. :rolleyes:

Now if Apple can't build a data centre bringing jobs to an area because of Mrs Lovejoy types, a gun range with a slightly unorthodox layout would never get off the ground.

www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/apple-fears-for-850m-athenry-data-centre-after-residents-court-bid-1.2837439

tac foley

Please note for future reference that 99% of ALL ranges in Switzerland are government ranges, which is why you can only shoot the government authorised ammunition on them, and that in government-issued firearms or those permitted, like the previous couple of military-issue models. They exist mainly so the the citizen militia of Switzerland can shoot their annual 'obligataire' and qualify.

Private ranges are few and far between, and very expensive by most peoples' standards. About as expensive as the initial membership of the Midlands, but unlike that facility, it is an annual fee.

tac

gunny123

Deleted User wrote: »

In February last year Apple announced its plans for a data centre in Athenry and another in Denmark, bringing much needed jobs to Galway. Apparently about 350 jobs while its being built and 150 for standard operations. The one in Denmark is being built right now. The Athenry one is delayed by the Concerned Loons of Lysheenkyle and is now going to the highcourt. :rolleyes:

Now if Apple can't build a data centre bringing jobs to an area because of Mrs Lovejoy types, a gun range with a slightly unorthodox layout would never get off the ground.

www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/apple-fears-for-850m-athenry-data-centre-after-residents-court-bid-1.2837439

I have heard of the village idiot, but never a village OF idiots :rolleyes:

tac foley

This little movie is concerned with the FAQs aimed at BOTR and his pal, Chap -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqHmvoyIlKI

Might clear up a few misunderstandments.

tac