NARGC county board affiliation

deeksofdoom

Question for the gun club officers here.

How much does your respective county boards charge affiliation fees per member in your club.

In cork it's over €20 affiliation fee per head at the moment, so for an average size club of 20 members you have to pay the county board €400 approx affiliation fees, before you can get your NARGC insurance.

How much do your county boards charge your clubs for affiliation fees, is it per head or per club?

Vegeta

It is a fixed fee of €100 per club for our county.

deeksofdoom

What County is that please?

grassroot1

In fairness to Cork I think they give back a significant amount of money in grants and subsidies.
I think our club pay 40 affiliation and 6 euro a head per member.

cavan shooter

It's 50 per club in Cavan.

deeksofdoom

grassroot1 wrote: »

In fairness to Cork I think they give back a significant amount of money in grants and subsidies.
I think our club pay 40 affiliation and 6 euro a head per member.

What county board are you in?

Yes they do give back to the club, but your never going to get the whole 400 back in a year. Not in an average club like ours anyway.

There's a lot more options out there now, NARGC has had its day.

bluezulu49

Wicklow €127 per club.

Dublin €5 per member in 2016, will rise to €10 per member in 2017.

cavan shooter

With money you lot are talking you must be getting some benefits....

deeksofdoom

cavan shooter wrote: »

With money you lot are talking you must be getting some benefits....

Yeah they will subsidise traps and various bits and pieces, but the money that you have to pay them probably cancels out any benefits you think you are getting from them. So the subsidised traps are actually the most expensive traps you will ever buy.

cavan shooter

deeksofdoom wrote:

Yeah they will subsidise traps and various bits and pieces, but the money that you have to pay them probably cancels out any benefits you think you are getting from them. So the subsidised traps are actually the most expensive traps you will ever buy.

I know the NARGC subsidises traps. The County board gets 1/2 of what's spent and then it's divided amongst those who purchased. But with the subs being talked about here the traps should be free. Is the County shoot free or something? Are they adding to the bird subsidy?.

p28559

The way I see it is that the sub paid in flows back in duck/pheasant subsidy and the predator equip Grant..but it is no more than what you put in you get back...you have to put a value in the representation made on your behalf at a national level in firearms, draft legislation etc. It is like being part of any "trade union"

grassroot1

deeksofdoom wrote: »

What county board are you in?

Yes they do give back to the club, but your never going to get the whole 400 back in a year. Not in an average club like ours anyway.

There's a lot more options out there now, NARGC has had its day.

Can you get better cover than the compensation fund from the other providers?
Have you ever brought up the high affiliation costs in Cork at any meetings?

deeksofdoom

grassroot1 wrote: »

Can you get better cover than the compensation fund from the other providers?
Have you ever brought up the high affiliation costs in Cork at any meetings?

I just want to know what your affiliation fees are and what out your your with.

You can't go mouthing off in any meeting without establishing facts first and that's all I'm trying to do for the time being.

grassroot1

deeksofdoom wrote: »

I just want to know what your affiliation fees are and what out your your with.

You can't go mouthing off in any meeting without establishing facts first and that's all I'm trying to do for the time being.

Well you are quite right to establish the facts first but your problem seems to be with the fees charged by your RGC.
You should never be afraid to question anything at any level in our association.
It is my opinion but I dont think the NARGC has had its day as you put it.

deeksofdoom

grassroot1 wrote: »

Well you are quite right to establish the facts first but your problem seems to be with the fees charged by your RGC.
You should never be afraid to question anything at any level in our association.
It is my opinion but I dont think the NARGC has had its day as you put it.

Yes 100% with the RGC, nothing wrong with NARGC insurance, but the NARGC model probably needs an overhaul
To cut out the middleman.

cavan shooter

grassroot1 wrote:

Can you get better cover than the compensation fund from the other providers? Have you ever brought up the high affiliation costs in Cork at any meetings?

The compensation fund is tried and tested and actually pays out. I have experience of that luckily not me personally but know lads that have broken ankles, dog claims etc. They deal with ut quickly and if ling enough in the game you know the fund administrator. The CAI and IFA are insurances of last resort.

The fund membership is €55 plus whatever your club is. I'm in two Clubs so it's an additional 30 and 20. BASC is £74, so all in all its not too bad.

The club then pays an affiliation to the County. I must say from reading above some of it especially cork is eye watering. I hope your getting value for money.

Similiar to alot of lads I don't really need to be in a club but there is good craic and I enjoy it

cavan shooter

deeksofdoom wrote:

Yes 100% with the RGC, nothing wrong with NARGC insurance, but the NARGC model probably needs an overhaul To cut out the middleman.

The Clubs are a problem they need to let people in. RGC is a good idea it organises at county level. But some seem ****e.

berettaman

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Yes 100% with the RGC, nothing wrong with NARGC insurance, but the NARGC model probably needs an overhaul
To cut out the middleman.

Wexford: each club pays €30 affiliation to the Co. RGC
Each member pays €6 on top of €50 comp fund fee.. all safety courses/game development etc run from that...not much but they seem to make it work..

cavan shooter

berettaman wrote:

Wexford: each club pays €30 affiliation to the Co. RGC Each member pays €6 on top of €50 comp fund fee.. all safety courses/game development etc run from that...not much but they seem to make it work..

So all the safety courses etc are free.?

berettaman

cavan shooter wrote: »

So all the safety courses etc are free.?

Yep..safety course includes a hot meal ( actual spuds and chicken etc:D)

don't charge for game development courses etc..

All in all not bad. They would probably like to do more but sure then costs would rise

grassroot1

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Yes 100% with the RGC, nothing wrong with NARGC insurance, but the NARGC model probably needs an overhaul
To cut out the middleman.

I cannot disagree with your logic. Good luck with your efforts.
You seem to be someone who will do something rather than whine about it.
The NARGC needs more like you.

ldc

Hi deeksofdoom
Lets avoid any misunderstandings between different RGC’s and what each offers and they are usually different. Below please find the payments and benefits that Cork provide as far as I can recall.
The club breakdown for full members is; €50.00 for the NARGC,made up of app €30 for day to day business and €20 for Insurance,(may be €5 out) €22.00 for Cork and whatever extra after that clubs charge is for their own club.
Last year Cork fees as stated consisted of €22 per ordinary member. (Juvenile and OAP benefit from reduced costs.) The extra €2 was voted in by the Cork Governing body over a year ago for to aid in funding a PHD student engaged in woodcock research. Down through the last good many years Cork has been at the forefront of supporting woodcock research and have put many many thousands of Euros in the kitty for this important research into our most treasured game bird. As you know woodcock are in trouble and we need to be proactive as a RGC.
Pheasant Subsidy €1.50 for the first 150 birds per club
Duck Subsidy, mainly an NARGC subsidy but Cork pay for transport and any other expenses. We get about 1000 birds resulting in an end cost to clubs of €1.50 each
Game Bird Crate subsidy, extremely robust and large, subsidised cost of €30 each to clubs
Tree Subsidy, Hardwood trees are 3-4 ft high except for whitethorn,
• Alder, Birch, Whitethorn 40c
• Oak 50c
• Beech 60c
• Sweet Chestnut €1.00
Vermin Subsidy, Cap of €1000 per club. (will change this year to a max spend amount for the federation for obvious reasons)
Game Crop Subsidy, both NARGC and Cork Federation
• John’s delight €25 per acre bag
• Utopia €16 per acre bag

Humane Trap Subsidies, Larsen Traps €60, mink Traps €30, not the usual rubbish, strong and robust and built to last. Yes you can buy cheaper but quality costs and there is a large subsidy allowed from what they are bought for to the price clubs get them at.
Proficiency course, once a year with many additional NARGC Certificate of Achievement courses ran in between so that no one is held up for getting an opportunity to procure a firearm licence. The proficiency course is one day, classroom am, lunch and practical at a clay ground PM with tuition. NARGC members €10, others €30 with €20 refunded if they join a NARGC club.
Federation Club of the year competition with prizes
Conservation Grant is available for clubs with worthwhile projects, a club has just received a €1000 euro grant in the last few weeks.

Those are just the grants, the federation also actively support other initiatives.

Cork Fed are always looking for new Executive members, as Grassroots1 says, You seem to be someone who will do something rather than whine about it.a post for Youth Development Officer is open at the moment for instance, you could make a difference.
All of these costs and subsidies are agreed with the governing body and Cork Fed is run on a democratic basis, Change is usually welcome and new ideas are always needed.

deeksofdoom

Ldc,

Thanks for taking the time with your post. I think the way that the affiliation fees are structured was a good idea back in the day, an attempt to get clubs proactively involved with the federation. However this is only working for some clubs where there is strong membership, leadership and even a few executive members on the club committee to guide the club in the right direction. But unfortunately this is not the way in our club and I think it may also be true of several other clubs in the region. Basically our members feel we are being bled dry in order to fund these other clubs and the money used for affiliation fees can be better spent within the club on our own club initiatives without having to go through the fed.

I'm sure that there are a lot of clubs whose only interaction with the federation is the bill for the affiliation fees every year. No attempt ever made to find out why clubs they are not actively participating with the federation, find out how they are doing or if they need help.

The Cork Federation will have to a long way to impress me yet.

I'm not anti NARGC and would hate to leave the fund, but there doesn't seem to be any alternative.

Glenbulldog

berettaman wrote: »

Yep..safety course includes a hot meal ( actual spuds and chicken etc:D)

don't charge for game development courses etc..

All in all not bad. They would probably like to do more but sure then costs would rise

Berettaman ,in Wexford are they only subsidising duck

grassroot1

Ldc and deeksofdoom
you guys are not as far apart on your argument as it might seem from the outset,
I am in awe of Cork Fed and its efforts to improve shooting for the future, however if you have to face an affiliation that high and cannot claim back some of those subsidies I can understand the difficulties.
I would expect to see this debated in Cork shortly. Cork will lead from the front as always

deeksofdoom

Whenever there is a challenge to the cost of the affiliation fees in Cork, the federation always come out swinging with the blurb Idc gave on what you can get in terms of subsidies, its not going to work this time I'm afraid. We've looked at what we put into the federation and what we get out and it doesn't add up.
They will not adjust their affiliation fees and I don't expect to hear anymore from them on that, its time for clubs in Cork to take the matter into their own hands.

Rimfire Shooter

deeks don't the clubs send the delegates to the Federation? Surely if enough clubs want change their delegates can vote for it?

deeksofdoom

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

deeks don't the clubs send the delegates to the Federation? Surely if enough clubs want change their delegates can vote for it?

Not sure how that would work, but I'ld say that for a delegate to make a proposal like that off the floor he would want to have a fairly substantial backing from the other delegates, otherwise he would be eaten alive and never seen again.

270WIN

AFAIK In limerick tis €1.50 for each member that goes to the RGC. The top table there is a closed shop...youd want serious backing from the floor to shift any of them. I reckon the vast majority are in the NARGC for the insurance and nothing else.

Rimfire Shooter

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Not sure how that would work, but I'ld say that for a delegate to make a proposal like that off the floor he would want to have a fairly substantial backing from the other delegates, otherwise he would be eaten alive and never seen again.

That's true but if enough clubs want change then this would be the way to do it. As you say anyone from a club moving on their own won't get far. The Federation delegates are from the clubs. The clubs should be telling them what they want done & then it's up to them to see can they get it. IIRC 2 x each club at Federation/RGC level has 2 x votes.

270WIN wrote: »

I reckon the vast majority are in the NARGC for the insurance and nothing else.

+1 to that, myself included.

270WIN

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

That's true but if enough clubs want change then this would be the way to do it. As you say anyone from a club moving on their own won't get far. The Federation delegates are from the clubs. The clubs should be telling them what they want done & then it's up to them to see can they get it. IIRC 2 x each club at Federation/RGC level has 2 x votes.



+1 to that, myself included.

Me too,,,i get f all out of my club...worse than useless