Ulster V Munster - Match Thread- 7.05pm - BBCNI/NI

Mahatma Geansai

So apparently Ulster didn't have a single home grown forward at one point during the match. That's shambolic.

awec

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

So apparently Ulster didn't have a single home grown forward at one point during the match. That's shambolic.

Once Wilson went off and before McCall came on.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

So apparently Ulster didn't have a single home grown forward at one point during the match. That's shambolic.

Wilson played the full 80, did he not?

Edit: Sorry, no he didn't.

coco0981

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

So apparently Ulster didn't have a single home grown forward at one point during the match. That's shambolic.

Case in point why the pienaar decision was made. Tough on the individual but as a principle it is the right call (ducks for cover)

awec

coco1981 wrote: »

Case in point why the pienaar decision was made. Tough on the individual but as a principle it is the right call (ducks for cover)

They were all IQ except for Van der Merwe. Just all granny rulers. And Herbst the project.

phog

leakyboots wrote: »

Super win, at 60 I didn't think we had it in us but fellas like Rory Scannell, Killer (what an engine, he didn't let up for the 80 mins), JOD, Taute, POM, Donnacha Ryan got through shovels of dirty work, even Williams kept things ticking over in spite of his errors. Sweetnam too was immense, he's turning out to be quite the player. Conway had a good game bar their tries.

When was the last time we won up there?

Axel would be proud of a dirty win like that

We won there last season and drew with them up there the season before. I think tonight was our fifth unbeaten game against Ulster.

If Keatley got his kick at goals including his drop goal attempt that would have been a comfortable win for us. Both teams turned over ball in positions where a try was on.

TOD will be disappointed with Lyttle's try but Killer & Keatkey should be fined for their attempt at stopping him.

Brilliant win especially after going 14-0 down, some great defence and poor handling by Ulster saved our bacon.


Anyway after the last fortnight I'll take the away win and worrry about the performance later.

coco0981

awec wrote: »

They were all IQ except for Van der Merwe. Just all granny rulers. And Herbst the project.

I may be opening a can of worms here but.......

All of Munsters 8 starting forwards were born in Munster
Only 1 of Ulsters starting 8 was born in Ulster. The IRFU decision on pienaar may not have been directly related to this but it is all kind of part of a package. Does anyone honestly believe Ulster's pack tonight would have had the same motivation deep down to win? Inevitably they will not all be like Dion O Cuinneagain whose motivation could never be questioned

kuang1

I think the most satisfying aspect to tonight was the fact the gameplan remained consistent throughout the whole game.
We went 14-0 down in fair, but unlucky circumstances. Yet there was no panic. We stuck with the plan.
We showed the wisdom to acknowledge that Keatley was on an off night, and changed the kicker mid-stream. Something that we hadn't done in the past to our detriment.

As much as it saddens me to say this, I feel that we won tonight in spite of our 9/10.

shootermacg

You'd imagine Keats would have nothing else to do but practice his kicking. WTF? I would have taken Archer@10 by half time. I feel bad for the guy, but he's absolute ****e in a bucket at 10.

He's a good player in the loose, I'd be telling Conway to sling his hook and converting Keatly to a FB.

Cathalthesmart

Im probably going to get shot down for this but bar his kicking from the tee and his miss tackle on Lyttle I dont think he had too bad of a game.

FACECUTTR

shootermacg wrote: »

You'd imagine Keats would have nothing else to do but practice his kicking. WTF? I would have taken Archer@10 by half time. I feel bad for the guy, but he's absolute ****e in a bucket at 10.

He's a good player in the loose, I'd be telling Conway to sling his hook and converting Keatly to a FB.

Keatly was a ****e kicker at Connacht and has not improved 1 iota. 12 or 15 and he is decent. I'm sure there's someone that can kick to give him a break to concentrate on running the game.

molloyjh

That was the most bizarre games of two halves I've ever seen. The team with all the territory and possession in the first half lost that 40 and the team with all the territory and possession in the second lost the second 40. It was 2 teams who looked better if they didn't have the ball for extended periods. That to me would be a huge concern for both teams.

Felix Jones is God

Don't think many in the Munster camp will be concerned to be honest

molloyjh

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Don't think many in the Munster camp will be concerned to be honest

Well that would be even worse. Fans not being bothered is fine but the number of errors in that first half and the utter inability to turn pressure into points should be a very serious work on within the camp.

Cathalthesmart

Maybe Munster should do what Connacht have done and give there kicking duties to there twelve.

Felix Jones is God

molloyjh wrote: »

Well that would be even worse. Fans not being bothered is fine but the number of errors in that first half and the utter inability to turn pressure into points should be a very serious work on within the camp.

You mean the normal things that are worked on, things went well last week, not so this week, and we still won.
Individual errors can be cut out, non issue

Felix Jones is God

Cathalthesmart wrote: »

Maybe Munster should do what Connacht have done and give there kicking duties to there twelve.

When our first 15 is on the pitch we have 2 players who can place kick and a third who can kick for distance and then Scannell on top of that

molloyjh

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Well that would be even worse. Fans not being bothered is fine but the number of errors in that first half and the utter inability to turn pressure into points should be a very serious work on within the camp.

You mean the normal things that are worked on, things went well last week, not so this week, and we still won.
Individual errors can be cut out, non issue

The fact remains that Munster, like Ulster, looked better with less possession. I wouldn't look to last week as some sort of norm. It wasn't. And if the team look worse with the ball than without it that's an issue that needs fixing.

I know you don't like people being "mean" about Munster rugby, but sticking your head in the sand doesn't change anything.

Felix Jones is God

molloyjh wrote: »

The fact remains that Munster, like Ulster, looked better with less possession. I wouldn't look to last week as some sort of norm. It wasn't. And if the team look worse with the ball than without it that's an issue that needs fixing.

I know you don't like people being "mean" about Munster rugby, but sticking your head in the sand doesn't change anything.

So last week wasn't the norm, but this week was? There's some lack of logic to your meanderings and it's still patently incorrect

Bridge93

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

So last week wasn't the norm, but this week was? There's some lack of logic to your meanderings and it's still patently incorrect

I would have thought based on every game Munster have played for the last few years that last week was the outlier and not last night? It shows how capable they are but don't pretend that last week was somehow munsters level. They've been better defensively than with the ball for years now

molloyjh

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

The fact remains that Munster, like Ulster, looked better with less possession. I wouldn't look to last week as some sort of norm. It wasn't. And if the team look worse with the ball than without it that's an issue that needs fixing.

I know you don't like people being "mean" about Munster rugby, but sticking your head in the sand doesn't change anything.

So last week wasn't the norm, but this week was? There's some lack of logic to your meanderings and it's still patently incorrect

When did I say this week was the norm? Seriously, you need to be able to take valid criticism of Munster a bit better than this.

Felix Jones is God

Bridge93 wrote: »

I would have thought based on every game Munster have played for the last few years that last week was the outlier and not last night? It shows how capable they are but don't pretend that last week was somehow munsters level. They've been better defensively than with the ball for years now

That's being disingenuous
I would suspect that having a half back partnership that works would be a major difference this season. Plus some fine backs coming through, we'll be there, or there abouts in the Pro12 at the seasons end, definitely much more to look forward to than at lease w of the other provinces from what I've seen the last 6 weeks

Felix Jones is God

molloyjh wrote: »

When did I say this week was the norm? Seriously, you need to be able to take valid criticism of Munster a bit better than this.

It's your opinion, nothing more
And I asked a question, try to keep up please

Bridge93

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

That's being disingenuous
I would suspect that having a half back partnership that works would be a major difference this season. Plus some fine backs coming through, we'll be there, or there abouts in the Pro12 at the seasons end, definitely much more to look forward to than at lease w of the other provinces from what I've seen the last 6 weeks

But this is forward thinking. I wouldn't disagree with any of it. But it doesn't make last week the norm until it's a regular occurrence. How Munster played last night was far more typical of what they've been doing for a while.

mfceiling

Didn't watch it (stupid wedding anniversary dinner). Looks like it'll free up another bit of space on the box as I delete it when I get home.

Reading awec's posts it looks like Doak and Clarke still need to go. Reading bilston's posts it seems Tommy Bowe played poorly....not surprised as I thought he was brutal a couple of weeks ago.

Any idea of Coetzee miraculously being better in the next week!!

awec

mfceiling wrote: »

Didn't watch it (stupid wedding anniversary dinner). Looks like it'll free up another bit of space on the box as I delete it when I get home.

Reading awec's posts it looks like Doak and Clarke still need to go. Reading bilston's posts it seems Tommy Bowe played poorly....not surprised as I thought he was brutal a couple of weeks ago.

Any idea of Coetzee miraculously being better in the next week!!

Coetzee interviewed at half time, won't be fit til February.

mfceiling

awec wrote: »

Coetzee interviewed at half time, won't be fit til February.

Jesus that is bad news. Pack seems to get worse every year. A few years ago we had a younger Best, Afoa, Ferris and Muller. Now look at what we have.

Oh and Lewis Stevenson!!

awec

mfceiling wrote: »

Jesus that is bad news. Pack seems to get worse every year. A few years ago we had a younger Best, Afoa, Ferris and Muller. Now look at what we have.

Oh and Lewis Stevenson!!

Definitely getting worse. We're going backwards.

molloyjh

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

When did I say this week was the norm? Seriously, you need to be able to take valid criticism of Munster a bit better than this.

It's your opinion, nothing more
And I asked a question, try to keep up please

It's not my opinion, it's quantifiably provable. In both halves the team that had the ball less scored more. That's just a fact.

Felix Jones is God

molloyjh wrote: »

It's not my opinion, it's quantifiably provable. In both halves the team that had the ball less scored more. That's just a fact.

That would be a fact in quite a high percentage of games thruout rugby, even last week in the AB v Aus game the Aussies had over 60% possession in the first half ...worked out well for them didn't it

molloyjh

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

It's not my opinion, it's quantifiably provable. In both halves the team that had the ball less scored more. That's just a fact.

That would be a fact in quite a high percentage of games thruout rugby, even last week in the AB v Aus game the Aussies had over 60% possession in the first half ...worked out well for them didn't it

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

EDIT: Also, the issue here is what Munster were doing with the ball when they had it. Like Australia they didn't do great with the ball when they had it. It was a problem for Australia, as you rightly pointed out, ergo it was a problem for Munster by your very own logic. Why are you getting upset by me saying it?

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

I think for now we can happy enough with good results. It's no use being in peak form in October. Equally that was a result earned by a largely second string lineup with little to no experience on the bench that won't play together in a life or death game. We don't need this side to look the part, just to keep results ticking over.

Felix Jones is God

molloyjh wrote: »

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

I don't take it to heart. But to say a team doesn't score more because they have more possession is just a little silly even by the "logic" you're trying to apply

molloyjh

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

I don't take it to heart. But to say a team doesn't score more because they have more possession is just a little silly even by the "logic" you're trying to apply

But that's what happened???? Munster scored more points with a minority of possession than they did with a majority of possession. Just like Ulster did.

I was just saying that there's an issue if you do better without the ball than you do on the ball. There's nothing whacky or bizarre about that statement.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

But did they do better with less possession in the second half? Because otherwise your point is totally irrelevant. You know it's ok for people to be critical of Munster, you don't need to take it to heart.

I think for now we can happy enough with good results. It's no use being in peak form in October. Equally that was a result earned by a largely second string lineup with little to no experience on the bench that won't play together in a life or death game. We don't need this side to look the part, just to keep results ticking over.

I'd agree with that but there have to be learnings from the game as well as these guys are likely to be playing together a bit during the international windows bar maybe 1 or 2 changes.

Felix Jones is God

molloyjh wrote: »

But that's what happened???? Munster scored more points with a minority of possession than they did with a majority of possession. Just like Ulster did.

I was just saying that there's an issue if you do better without the ball than you do on the ball. There's nothing whacky or bizarre about that statement.

It is bizarre if you believe that it is some kind of anomaly....it patently isn't....many teams win with less possession...it's a complete non issue to be truthful.

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd agree with that but there have to be learnings from the game as well as these guys are likely to be playing together a bit during the international windows bar maybe 1 or 2 changes.

During international windows, not life or death games that can make or break a season.

molloyjh

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

But that's what happened???? Munster scored more points with a minority of possession than they did with a majority of possession. Just like Ulster did.

I was just saying that there's an issue if you do better without the ball than you do on the ball. There's nothing whacky or bizarre about that statement.

It is bizarre if you believe that it is some kind of anomaly....it patently isn't....many teams win with less possession...it's a complete non issue to be truthful.

There is a HUGE difference between winning with a minority of possession because you use the possession you have well (like NZ) and making a mess of huge amount of possession and scraping a win against a team as bad with the ball the way Munster did last night. You can close your eyes to it all you want but they are not the same thing at all.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd agree with that but there have to be learnings from the game as well as these guys are likely to be playing together a bit during the international windows bar maybe 1 or 2 changes.

During international windows, not life or death games that can make or break a season.

Don't forget for years those windows were what Leinster used to get themselves into a home play off. Don't underestimate the importance of them.

shootermacg

I don't think Keats will be allowed take any kicks in future. 0% return rate isn't even bad, its beyond that.

The mistakes are fixable. We camped their 22 for hugh stretches of the game punching through easily enough. If we'd not have made the stupid mistakes, it might have been a hammering for Ulster.

Jaco Taute seems to be the best bit of business Munster have done since CJ. Absolute beast, is actually murdering people legally in the tackle and the work rate is right up there.

Second rows put in a immense shift as did the back rows. Williams was solid. Killer was huge for us and his work in the scrum has also come along. I would say he's may currently the best Irish front row when it comes to carrying.

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't forget for years those windows were what Leinster used to get themselves into a home play off. Don't underestimate the importance of them.

I'm not. But they're not life or death. I don't think it's worth being too fussed about that side's performance.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't forget for years those windows were what Leinster used to get themselves into a home play off. Don't underestimate the importance of them.

I'm not. But they're not life or death. I don't think it's worth being too fussed about that side's performance.

Ah no, it wasn't a disaster or anything. And as you said at this stage of the competition it was a great result. By the same token I'm just saying that it shouldn't be ignored either. And I'm sure it won't be.

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah no, it wasn't a disaster or anything. And as you said at this stage of the competition it was a great result. By the same token I'm just saying that it shouldn't be ignored either. And I'm sure it won't be.

Too fussed from a supporter's perspective I should have said.

irishbucsfan

I think Ulster fans are getting to this stage now

Adbrowne

Owens – “As he went to make the tackle, you slipped as well okay. And his arms were coming around to make the tackle, do you agree?”

O’Mahony – “Fair enough.”

Owens: “Good man. That’s a first!”

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

I was just saying that there's an issue if you do better without the ball than you do on the ball. There's nothing whacky or bizarre about that statement.

Leinster had less possession but won comfortably against Munster 3 weeks ago.

phog

Scores and defence win games. Possession is only a stat.

phog

The full match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ATIGaLVktY

phog

WTV's blog of the game



TRKs Wally Ratings

Watching through patches, Sweetnam really had a good game.