Log cabins & legality? 5k to buy, 850 pm rent.

riclad

Build directly onto the back of the house,
the land at the side will be counted as part of the 25 sq metres empty space .

Gumbo

riclad wrote: »

Build directly onto the back of the house,
the land at the side will be counted as part of the 25 sq metres empty space .

Only if useable space. A 900mm side entrance usually is not counted.
The 25 Sq. M needs to be useable space to the rear of the property but the side can sometimes be counted.

I was more correcting your comment "build onto the side of the house".

kceire

kceire wrote: »

Also, the exempted development lists the types of structures that are exempt in the regulations, maybe not stated in the Act but the regulations state what can be built under these exempted rules.

I was speaking about 'use' rather than 'building', as this seems the most legally interesting.

Regulations can't limit the provisions of an Act, unless the Act specifically gives them these powers.

It would not be legally consistent for an Act to exempt "ANY use incidental to the enjoyment of the house" and then have Regulations which decide that ANY means something less than that.

Perhaps there are such provisions, allowing the exemptions set out in the Act to be narrowed down by Regulation. I just scanned the Act and didnt notice them.

April 73

Council enforcement departments have to be aware of a structure before they can do anything about it.

I know of a case where a 50 sq m steel shed was erected at the side of a house without permission. It took two years from it first being reported but the council eventually insisted it was taken down. It was more like an aircraft hangar than a shed!

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

I was speaking about 'use' rather than 'building', as this seems the most legally interesting.

Regulations can't limit the provisions of an Act, unless the Act specifically gives them these powers.

It would not be legally consistent for an Act to exempt "ANY use incidental to the enjoyment of the house" and then have Regulations which decide that ANY means something less than that.

Perhaps there are such provisions, allowing the exemptions set out in the Act to be narrowed down by Regulation. I just scanned the Act and didnt notice them.

Probably, I won't even pretend to understand the legal end of the act. I'll route out what section the department enforce on Wednesday and post back up.

April 73 wrote: »

Council enforcement departments have to be aware of a structure before they can do anything about it.

I know of a case where a 50 sq m steel shed was erected at the side of a house without permission. It took two years from it first being reported but the council eventually insisted it was taken down. It was more like an aircraft hangar than a shed!

See this is what the public don't see. When the complaint first comes in, a warning letter goes out. The owner then has 4 weeks to respond and arrange a meeting to see what the issues are. The officer usually faciliates this and allows the owner to apply for retention to try keep the structure / use. That's takes 3-4 months to arrange and enforcement proceedings are held off during this.

If the application is refused the owner can then go to the board and during this the enforcement proceedings are also held off.

It's only after all of this can the department go in heavy with court dates etc

athtrasna

moleyv wrote: »

There is so much wrong in this thread I wouldn't even bother :pac:

If you have an issue with a post please use the report post button. Thanks

tayto lover

kceire wrote: »

Yes. Planning is required and will most likely be refused.

Would a camper van be away around this problem or would it be deemed similar to a mobile home?
Sorry for all the questions.

Commotion Ocean

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

It will not be exempt from planning permission like a 40 sq m extension is.

Interesting legal tidbit there, Higgins. How often can you build one of these 40m² extensions? 40m² isn't that small, I could easily build 5x40m² extensions over five years, thus extending my house by 200m² over a few years and circumventing our draconian North-Koran-style planning laws.

Graham

dfeo wrote: »

How often can you build one of these 40m² extensions? 40m² isn't that small, I could easily build 5x40m² extensions over five years, thus extending my house by 200m²

Here you go:

If your house has been extended before, the floor area of the extension you are now proposing and the floor area of any previous extension (including those for which you previously got planning permission) must not exceed 40 square metres.

dfeo wrote: »

circumventing our draconian North-Koran-style planning laws.

Personally I don't have an issue with planning laws that prevent ill considered and inconsiderate development.

Gumbo

tayto lover wrote: »

Would a camper van be away around this problem or would it be deemed similar to a mobile home?
Sorry for all the questions.

As in a camper van in the front garden?
Might be similar to the boat in the garden. You are allowed keep them there for 9 months in any one period but if you started living in one I'm sure they'd be able to issue proceedings against the use.

The camper van itself could be there as long as required but if you started living in it and someone complained then I'd imagine proceedings could be issued.

dfeo wrote: »

Interesting legal tidbit there, Higgins. How often can you build one of these 40m² extensions? 40m² isn't that small, I could easily build 5x40m² extensions over five years, thus extending my house by 200m² over a few years and circumventing our draconian North-Koran-style planning laws.

No, the max area is 40 Sq. M. You could build 5x8 Sq. M extensions over 5 years though.

Eric Cartman

All of this craic about people trying to loophole putting a damn shed or mobile in their back garden as a liveable structure, why.

If you want to build any bedroom / sleeping space on your land, then its pretty much always true that you need planning. If everyone in this thread would start focussing on what's easiest to get planning for , instead of what loopholes through / is the easiest scam to pull , then I think you'll get a lot better answers.

tayto lover

Eric Cartman wrote: »

All of this craic about people trying to loophole putting a damn shed or mobile in their back garden as a liveable structure, why.

If you want to build any bedroom / sleeping space on your land, then its pretty much always true that you need planning. If everyone in this thread would start focussing on what's easiest to get planning for , instead of what loopholes through / is the easiest scam to pull , then I think you'll get a lot better answers.

People are interested on what's acceptable and unacceptable rather than what's legal or illegal. It's just information they want usually just for the sake of conversation

Graham

tayto lover wrote: »

It's just information they want usually just for the sake of conversation

It's not usually for the sake of conversation though. It's usually because someone thinks they've discovered a way of building residential accommodation for a fraction of the cost of the alternatives.

That's not so say they won't get away with it, or that others aren't already getting away with it BUT anyone considering it should certainly be aware they could well end up with a €50k garden shed or an enforcement notice to remove the cabin entirely.

riclad

The rules are clear you can build a rear extension under a certain height if you leave 25metres empty in your garden ,if you happen to have a large garden,Without Getting planning permission
it wont help people living in a house with a garden of 27sq metres size.

Graham

riclad wrote: »

The rules are clear you can build a rear extension under a certain height if you leave 25metres empty in your garden

How is that relevant to log cabins?

riclad

i thought this thread had moved on to discuss building any type of extension in a garden.

Michael D Not Higgins

MOD: Riclad, your very first post on the thread was about extensions completely ignoring the topic of the thread. Can you please stay on topic?

thegodlife

I am looking into the same thing at the moment as I own a house in Cork currently rented that I want to move into but its to small for my family, my options are to sell it and buy another meaning I loose a fair bit with this transaction or put some sore of cabin in the back garden which could be used as my office or extra bedroom when required.

Gumbo

thegodlife wrote: »

I am looking into the same thing at the moment as I own a house in Cork currently rented that I want to move into but its to small for my family, my options are to sell it and buy another meaning I loose a fair bit with this transaction or put some sore of cabin in the back garden which could be used as my office or extra bedroom when required.

Use as office - no problem.
Use as bedroom - Not allowed

It also must be within the Planning Exemption limits or you need to apply for planning.

thegodlife

Well a 3 bedroom house and one bedroom is a box room which you wouldn't swing a cat in and possibility i child gone in 2 years hopefully to college. Was thinking maybe we could move in and have a study area with a drop down bed which she could use until she goes. Otherwise its sell it.

riclad

So its up to you to check is it small enough to not require planning permission,after its there is there 25sqmetres left of garden space left .
is it exempt from planning rules?

Lumen

riclad wrote: »

So its up to you to check is it small enough to not require planning permission,after its there is there 25sqmetres left of garden space left .
is it exempt from planning rules?

As I understand it, planning rules and building regulations apply to all development. Some types of development are exempted from the process of applying for permission, but doesn't mean there are no rules. You seem to be advocating staying within one aspect of the rules (size and remaining space) but ignoring the others (permitted use).

If that's the case I don't know what sort of advice you are expecting. "Ah sure it'll be grand"?

pilly

thegodlife wrote: »

Well a 3 bedroom house and one bedroom is a box room which you wouldn't swing a cat in and possibility i child gone in 2 years hopefully to college. Was thinking maybe we could move in and have a study area with a drop down bed which she could use until she goes. Otherwise its sell it.

In reality this happens all the time, my daughter has her bedroom in one for years now, no problems.

thegodlife

One in the box room is ok but 3 in the other doesnt work as youngest is girl

Graham

riclad wrote: »

So its up to you to check is it small enough to not require planning permission,after its there is there 25sqmetres left of garden space left .
is it exempt from planning rules?

My understanding is a separate habitable dwelling in a garden is never planning exempt. Your understanding is obviously not far away from mine given you're recommending hiding the purpose of the building.

Michael D Not Higgins

MOD: Just a friendly reminder that illegal advice is against the site rules and the rules of this forum. Having a habitable shed in the garden is not planning exempt and planning will not be granted for it. Discussions about how to dodge responsibilities related to law will not be tolerated.

Gumbo

riclad wrote: »

So its up to you to check is it small enough to not require planning permission,after its there is there 25sqmetres left of garden space left .
is it exempt from planning rules?

It will make no difference if he size exempts them from planning. The use requires planning and will most likely get refused.

It is deemed a garden room/shed and is exempt from building regulations.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

My understanding is a separate habitable dwelling in a garden is never planning exempt.

People keep mentioning "habitable" but as far as I have been able to find out, this concept is not in the actual planning legislation. What is exempt in a secondary building, as regards use, is " the use of any structure or other land within the curtilage of a house for any purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the house as such"

To give a practical example; i am aware of an outbuilding that has been internally modernised to include a study, a bathroom (toilet and shower) and basic food facilities (counter, kettle, microwave). The owner uses it as a home study/office and his wife as a summer/relaxation space. Its also used for storage, keeping a deep freezer etc.

I believe the above use is perfectly compatible with the exemption but I would not go so far as to state that the structure is not habitable. In fact, without doubt it is habitable ie 'capable of being lived in'.

I think the question of use, legally, must relate to the actual use the structure is put to, not to the potential use that it might be put to.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the question of use, legally, must relate to the actual use the structure is put to, not to the potential use that it might be put to.

Sounds bizarrely logical.

Different semantics but same conclusion, you can't just build usable accommodation in your back garden. Well actually, I guess you can as long as you don't actually use it.

riclad

You can call it a shed, cabin etc the point is a building at the rear of a house is exempt from planning permission if theres 25sq metres left of empty garden
space, I don,t know if this includes garden space at the side of the house.
IF its used not just as a shed,storage unit i presume it should comply with
fire safety rules re exits ,windows . new floor space must be less 40sq metres

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/planning_perm_altering_a_house.html
some people seem to think any building thats not a shed must get planning permission