Should Bow Street Luas level crossing be closed to motorists

monument

It seems like there has been a lot of collisions at Bow Street over the years -- not all as major ones as yesterday.

It's not a major route and and May Lane and other routes already offer access to areas north of the Luas tracks.

Should the crossing at Bow Street be closed to motorists?

Commotion Ocean

If it's closed to motorists, then it should be closed to cyclists too. Motorists are no more likely to break a read light than a cyclist.

Jamie2k9

Traffic camera's should be in place and any motorist who does not stop at the lights be fined. Passing lights at red or chancing it at orange and stopping would appear to be the most likely cause of yesterdays accident.

Closing a street just moves the problem somewhere else.

The amount of yellow box blocking is a joke in the city center.

Losty Dublin

Getting tour buses into Jameson, one of the city's busiest tourist attractions, is almost impossible any other way then via Bow Street. The stop also serves St. Michan's church The next best option is for tour buses to drop passengers off at Arran Quay and let them walk the 100 metres or so. Don't ask how well that will do down at Failte Ireland but I personally think it's acceptable given the awful corners that buses have to deal with at Smithfield.

PirateShampoo

Red light camera, break the red light get a fine... Simples.

Also if cyclists want to use the road then make them accountable. Cyclist number plates.

Cyril T Squirrel

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Red light camera, break the red light get a fine... Simples.

Also if cyclists want to use the road then make them accountable. Cyclist number plates.

And road tax.

magicbastarder

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Also if cyclists want to use the road then make them accountable. Cyclist number plates.

well, that didn't take long.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

magicbastarder

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Getting tour buses into Jameson, one of the city's busiest tourist attractions, is almost impossible any other way then via Bow Street. The stop also serves St. Michan's church The next best option is for tour buses to drop passengers off at Arran Quay and let them walk the 100 metres or so. Don't ask how well that will do down at Failte Ireland but I personally think it's acceptable given the awful corners that buses have to deal with at Smithfield.

if collisions are a problem at this junction - notwithstanding the fact that the recent one involved a bus - would it then make sense to allow only tour buses up this road?

PirateShampoo

Cyril T Squirrel wrote: »

And road tax.

Nope, the road tax system is highly unfair as it is.

PirateShampoo

magicbastarder wrote: »

well, that didn't take long.

And what exactly is wrong with the suggestion?

We all see cyclists break lights in the city center, or hammer straight through pedestrian crossings everyday.

What's wrong with accountability?

newacc2015

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Red light camera, break the red light get a fine... Simples.

Also if cyclists want to use the road then make them accountable. Cyclist number plates.

As a cyclist, the amount of horrific driving from 'professional drivers' such as buses is disturbing. Between their constant breaking of lights to ignore cyclists coming up the left in a cycle lane. I was only on D'Olier St on Thursday after where a private bus (a certain company that links the city to the airport) decided to open his doors in the middle of the road to let a passenger off the bus. I have had drivers from the same company drive the bus so close to my bike that they have hit my bad tyres and you will turn around to see the driver laughing.

Red light camera end up being a money spinning operation for most cities that operate them. They rarely reduce risky behaviour and in fact cause drivers to be more likely to be rear ended as drivers are so obsessed with not breaking the red light, that they break more harshly at amber.

What good is licence plates for bikes when buses/cars have them and still break the law? IMO I think the offence for breaking a light or any road law by the likes of a bus is having their operating license suspended for a few days. I imagine a driver wouldnt have break red light if the companies buses were suspended from operating for a few days and it costed them tens of thousands in lost revenue. It is a harsh penalty, but not when you consider the consequences of a bus hitting a tram full of people it isnt really.

magicbastarder

PirateShampoo wrote: »

And what exactly is wrong with the suggestion?

its sheer irrelevancy. the thread was started as a reaction to another motorised vehicle crashing into the luas.

Carawaystick

monument wrote: »

It seems like there has been a lot of collisions at Bow Street over the years -- not all as major ones as yesterday.

It's not a major route and and May Lane and other routes already offer access to areas north of the Luas tracks.

Should the crossing at Bow Street be closed to motorists?

Would you put in a pedestrian crossing there or leave it so that trams have to yield to pedestrians as it is?

monument

This thread is about the major issue of motorists and collisions with Luas -- it's not about cyclists -- keep on topic.

-- moderator

monument

Some facts:

http://www.rsa.ie/PageFiles/9764/Note%20to%20editor%20about%20Luas.pdf

The main junctions where road vehicle / tram collisions happened on the Luas Red Line are;
· Benburb St/Queen St
· Benburb St/ Blackhall Place
· Abbey St/Jervis St
· Bow St Crossing

Bow Street is the only non-major Road.

Motorists are a far larger issue overall with red light breaking at Luas crossings: http://i1.wp.com/irishcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/img_0663.jpg and cause a massive amount of damage.

Carawaystick

How many of the drivers involved in those collisions were prosecuted? Or do the rsa not bother collecting those data?

uck51js9zml2yt

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Nope, the road tax system is highly unfair as it is.

Especially since we don't have"road tax" in this country!!

highdef

newacc2015 wrote: »

Red light camera end up being a money spinning operation for most cities that operate them. They rarely reduce risky behaviour and in fact cause drivers to be more likely to be rear ended as drivers are so obsessed with not breaking the red light, that they break more harshly at amber..

That's not an issue caused by someone stopping at an amber light....that's due to the following driver not leaving a big enough gap to allow him/her to stop safely in time. You're basically saying that there are too many ****ty drivers out there, however I'm not disagreeing with that! If you are driving in a safe manner, you should never be in a situation where you will crash into the car in front if he/she decides to drop anchor at any time.
PS: I have an obsession with not breaking red lights....how weird am I??? :P

Chuchote

The problem, it seems to me, is inadequate signage for Luas crossings. There should be what Americans attractively call a big-ass sign 'TRAM CROSSING' with a picture of a Luas. These crossings aren't well warned.

Figerty

monument wrote: »

Some facts:

http://www.rsa.ie/PageFiles/9764/Note%20to%20editor%20about%20Luas.pdf



Bow Street is the only non-major Road.

Motorists are a far larger issue overall with red light breaking at Luas crossings: http://i1.wp.com/irishcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/img_0663.jpg and cause a massive amount of damage.

I think you may have a problem there.... I can't imagine that 1 in 8 people in Dublin are cyclist, yet proportionately, 1 in 8 (12.6% cyclists) are breaking the red light.

This would mean that in reality, cyclist are in proportion to the numbers on the road, are the greatest red light breakers and far in excess of car users.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Chuchote

As a start, if people would like cyclists to be prosecuted for breaking red lights, perhaps they would like to put pressure on the Gardaí to spend their valuable time contacting Dublin Bikes for data on their tracked and user-tagged bicycles? These already, in effect, have trackers, and so any cyclist riding one who goes through a light could be prosecuted, if the Gardaí wish to divert their resources to it.

Or perhaps traffic lights could have trackers that would immediately issue fines to both Dublin Bikes users and motorists who break the lights? (I should mention that a small study in Kerry found that 67% of lights-breakers were motorists.)

markpb

Chuchote wrote:

The problem, it seems to me, is inadequate signage for Luas crossings. There should be what Americans attractively call a big-ass sign 'TRAM CROSSING' with a picture of a Luas. These crossings aren't well warned.

They are, however, protected by traffic lights where one might assume motorists would stop when instructed.

Chuchote

markpb wrote: »

They are, however, protected by traffic lights where one might assume motorists would stop when instructed.

#Lolz!

quadrifoglio verde

Chuchote wrote: »

The problem, it seems to me, is inadequate signage for Luas crossings. There should be what Americans attractively call a big-ass sign 'TRAM CROSSING' with a picture of a Luas. These crossings aren't well warned.

The big red light on a steel pole isn't for decorative purposes. It's to say stop.
If someone can't see said big red light, then they shouldn't be on the road in the first place

magicbastarder

maybe we need automated level crossing gates. or perhaps one of those retracting bollards used to protect bus lanes in other jurisdictions.

quadrifoglio verde

I like the retracting bollard idea, great way of identifying numpties

Losty Dublin

magicbastarder wrote: »

if collisions are a problem at this junction - notwithstanding the fact that the recent one involved a bus - would it then make sense to allow only tour buses up this road?

Something needs to be looked at within that area with a view to general road, Luas and pedestrian safety as a whole. Alone with scheduled tour buses there can be up to 20 movements an hour at a peak; private hire coaches stop by here as well. Given the blind spot at crossing along with it's relatively low vehicle use, it is clearly a problem that needs investigation.

Earlier on this year I traveled on the Dublin Bus tours and was shocked just how tight getting into Smithfield is. Getting out of the is arguably more dangerous, customers of a local coffee show occasionally have to move tables to avoid an incident! Perhaps making the short section in question buses only is a solution but something has to be looked at, that much is clear.

Marcusm

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

The big red light on a steel pole isn't for decorative purposes. It's to say stop.
If someone can't see said big red light, then they shouldn't be on the road in the first place

And what about the amber light? That means precisely the same thing except non prosecutable.

Roadhawk

Instead of over reacting and suggesting to ban motorist from using this street would it not be a better suggestion to perhaps redesign the road and amend it to one way traffic with the inclusion of a cycle lane? To ban motorist access because of an incident is an absolute joke. Who ever was responsible should be fired and summons to court for dangerous driving.

I also agree with some of the previous posts that mention the implementation of red light cameras.

Hilly Bill

monument wrote: »

It seems like there has been a lot of collisions at Bow Street over the years -- not all as major ones as yesterday.

It's not a major route and and May Lane and other routes already offer access to areas north of the Luas tracks.

Should the crossing at Bow Street be closed to motorists?

Nope, i don't think so.

Chuchote

If I may repeat myself, the Luas junctions need better signage. It's all very well to say people should respect red lights, but surely it's levelling the playing field a bit to have a sign saying something like

EEEEEK!!! HORRIFYING HUGE TRAM COMING!!!!!! STAY BACK!!!!!!!!! OR YOU RISK YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, yes, red light cameras save lives

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/red-light-cameras-save-lives.htm

though people cause accidents by rear-ending compliant drivers; the rear-endings are less likely to be fatal.

monument

Roadhawk wrote: »

To ban motorist access because of an incident is an absolute joke.

Yes, it would be. But there's a major problem with your post...

Nobody is suggesting banning access (rerouting is not banning) and, more importantly, nobody is suggesting doing so because of an incident, but a long history of problems at this junction. I'd suggest that it should never have been left open once a Luas was planned for both safety and capacity reasons.

Access to Bow Street and Smithfield square etc would be maintained via a number of routes. The closest route for tour buses would add very little extra distance onto routes.

monument

This is my final earring in this:

Figerty wrote: »

I think you may have a problem there.... I can't imagine that 1 in 8 people in Dublin are cyclist, yet proportionately, 1 in 8 (12.6% cyclists) are breaking the red light.

This would mean that in reality, cyclist are in proportion to the numbers on the road, are the greatest red light breakers and far in excess of car users.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Chuchote wrote: »

As a start, if people would like cyclists to be prosecuted for breaking red lights, perhaps they would like to put pressure on the Gardaí to spend their valuable time contacting Dublin Bikes for data on their tracked and user-tagged bicycles? These already, in effect, have trackers, and so any cyclist riding one who goes through a light could be prosecuted, if the Gardaí wish to divert their resources to it.

Or perhaps traffic lights could have trackers that would immediately issue fines to both Dublin Bikes users and motorists who break the lights? (I should mention that a small study in Kerry found that 67% of lights-breakers were motorists.)

This thread about vehicles of a number of tons colliding with trams is not going to be derailed by off-topic nonsense about cyclists breaking red lights. I'm not the only one fed up with it, more than a few posters have expressed the same.

If you want to discuss cyclists breaking red lights feel free to add to one of the recent threads or start another one if you really think it's needed.

-- moderator

monument

For clarity: Roadhawk has a three day ban for trolling and his main offending post deleted. He was already warned by admins that he will be banned for good if he continues posting as he is.

He/she has been warned about trolling enough and a combo of (1) bringing cycling back into the thread even after a moderator warning, and (2) playing the man and not the ball is enough for me to ban him for a few days even if he was replying to my normal post.

But I am also reporting this post to get the decision reviewed by c-mods and admins.

-- moderator

tricky D

Reviewed by cmod and upheld.