The Genius of Mesut Ozil

Gringo180

For a player that was getting dogs abuse in his first season in England (mostly unwarranted), he has not only become Arsenals most valuable player but the best in his position in world football. His goal last night was nothing short of breathaking. I would say the rags of the Sun and Daily Fail are seething watching him play so well.

A thread dedicated to one of the finest playmakers the game has ever witnessed. King Ozil.

CalamariFritti

He's been my favourite player for years. Our price possession (Germany). He's on a different level to most. And not only that but he's also so elegant in what he's doing. If I was 12 again I'd be dreaming every night about being him. Playing those 60 yard miracle passes that some poacher just needs to tap in.

CSF

Relax there, he's a very talented guy but not up there with the world elite just yet. If anything this thread is much more kneejerk than the criticism he's gotten in the past. He hadn't been firing all cylinders so far this season upto last night. He is one of the most naturally talented players there is in football, so technically gifted, but he got criticism in the past (most of it over the top all the same) because his attitude has sucked at times when things weren't going well.

Sanchez is the most valuable player at Arsenal by the way IMO. Very rarely has a poor game and causes defenders a nightmare for almost all the 90 minutes of a game.

Gringo180

CSF wrote: »

Relax there, he's a very talented guy but not up there with the world elite just yet. If anything this thread is much more kneejerk than the criticism he's gotten in the past. He hadn't been firing all cylinders so far this season upto last night.

Can you name me a better playmaker than him? Hes 7 goals and 3 assists in 13 games this season so its unfair to say he wasn't firing on all cylinders up to last night. Even last season he was by far the best playmaker in the Prem Lge and Europe imo.

Lucas Hood

I think he's been the world's best number 10 for years.

Don't stick him out wing it's not his game at all.

Potential Underachiever

I just wish he could match Sanchez in FF points! But yes class act, beautiful player.

Gringo180

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

I just wish he could match Sanchez in FF points! But yes class act, beautiful player.

Sanchez up front also frees up plenty of space for him to exploit which is probably why he is scoring more goals this season.

niallo27

Poor man's Coutinho. He doesn't score enough goals for me to be one of the elite players in world football.

Gringo180

niallo27 wrote: »

Poor man's Coutinho. He doesn't score enough goals for me to be one of the elite players in world football.

Lol. Identical goals to games ratio but Ozil is way ahead on assists and thats with 26 games less played. He is on a different level to Coutinho altogether.

WesternZulu

niallo27 wrote: »

Poor man's Coutinho. He doesn't score enough goals for me to be one of the elite players in world football.

His main role is to provide chances to others. Considering that he broke the premier league record last year for assists I don't know how you can say he isn't elite.

In any case Coutinho can hardly be described as being prolific himself, I'd take Ozil above him any day of the week.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I don't think his goal last night was that brilliant it was good but the keeper was terrible for it.


Great player though.

Potential Underachiever

Coutinho is in a rich vein of form at the minute, that will skew some Liverpool fans thinking no doubt but for consistency over the last 2-3 years Ozil is a level above.

kfallon

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I don't think his goal last night was that brilliant it was good but the keeper was terrible for it.

You're right, it wasn't brilliant.....it was absolutely fan-fúcking-tastic!!!

The composure was unreal! 'Good' indeed......

Dirty Dingus McGee

kfallon wrote: »

You're right, it wasn't brilliant.....it was absolutely fan-fúcking-tastic!!!

The composure was unreal! 'Good' indeed......

It was grand.Nothing particularly special about it in my opinion.

niallo27

Gringo180 wrote: »

Lol. Identical goals to games ratio but Ozil is way ahead on assists and thats with 26 games less played. He is on a different level to Coutinho altogether.

My Coutinho post was in jest, although he has been brilliant this season. My point still stands that he does not score enough goals for me. 18 league goals in total is just not good enough if you want to make him one of the best players in the world.

Skylinehead

CSF wrote: »

Relax there, he's a very talented guy but not up there with the world elite just yet. If anything this thread is much more kneejerk than the criticism he's gotten in the past. He hadn't been firing all cylinders so far this season upto last night. He is one of the most naturally talented players there is in football, so technically gifted, but he got criticism in the past (most of it over the top all the same) because his attitude has sucked at times when things weren't going well.

Sanchez is the most valuable player at Arsenal by the way IMO. Very rarely has a poor game and causes defenders a nightmare for almost all the 90 minutes of a game.

Depends on our definition of "world elite". He's obviously not Lionel Messi, but he's 1 of the 2 best attacking midfielders in England, along with de Bruyne. Very different players so take your pick.

I don't really know what more he can do to sway the "attitude" doubters. Is this a big game jibe? Fairly sure the two teams he's scored against the most are Bayern Munich and Atletico Madrid. I honestly think it's because he has a sulky face, becomes an easy target for pundits.

As for Sanchez, as much as I love the guy, you're totally wrong there. He's easily capable of having a poor game, against packed defences he's a little bit infuriating when he runs into them and constantly loses the ball. Not sure who's more valuable to the team, you could be right there. Scoring from nothing is Sanchez' forte and that's a rare trait.

The Liverpool Coutinho fans, I won't even entertain. Not even close to Ozils level, special player as he is. No consistency.

Gringo180

niallo27 wrote: »

My Coutinho post was in jest, although he has been brilliant this season. My point still stands that he does not score enough goals for me. 18 league goals in total is just not good enough if you want to make him one of the best players in the world.

Hes not a striker. I am talking in his positon as a playmaker. Nobody in world football creates as many chances as he does on a consistent basis. Roy Keane was one of the best players in the world in his pomp but he didn't score many goals.

niallo27

Gringo180 wrote: »

Hes not a striker. I am talking in his positon as a playmaker. Nobody in world football creates as many chances as he does on a consistent basis. Roy Keane was one of the best players in the world in his pomp but he didn't score many goals.

You make a fair point in fairness, bar Messi there are not many players that do what he does on a consistent basis. To be one of the world greats he has to drag Arsenal to a title or a champions league final like what Suarez nearly did with an average Liverpool side.

cson

I guess the folks saying he's not one of the world's elite mean that he's not in that select group comprising of Mr Messi & Mr Ronaldo yet? Bearing in mind those two players are extreme outliers the likes of which we're unlikely to see again.
Judging Ozil by his position, which categorically this season appears to be an advanced #10 then who would comprise his peers? Genuinely struggling to see a list of players better than him in his position that'd relegate him to the level below elite?
He's as close to a modern day Bergkamp as you'll get.
TL;DR; Ozil = Bergkamp, Sanchez = Henry

Pepe LeFrits

Sanchez is more like Ljungberg. On steroids.

GavRedKing

Silva is better IMO but thats splitting very fine hairs.

Ozil is a fantastic footballer and allowed to be a pure #10 and not pushed onto the wing, he has practically no equal in England.

Looking at their assists and goals record, both are well above any other playmaker in the league.

Ozil in England 34 assists and 18 goals.

Silva in the same 4 year period as Ozil, 32 assists and 21 goals.

Couthino in the same period has 22 assists and 22 goals.

The Golden Miller

He is good but he's no Riquelme, that's for sure

........... his eyes are offside :pac:

liam7831

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He is good but he's no Riquelme, that's for sure

Never heard of him

Utopia Parkway

GavRedKing wrote: »

Silva is better IMO but thats splitting very fine hairs.

Ozil is a fantastic footballer and allowed to be a pure #10 and not pushed onto the wing, he has practically no equal in England.

Looking at their assists and goals record, both are well above any other playmaker in the league.

Ozil in England 34 assists and 18 goals.

Silva in the same 4 year period as Ozil, 32 assists and 21 goals.

Couthino in the same period has 22 assists and 22 goals.

Coutinho is 4 years younger than Ozil in fairness and 6 younger than Silva. Age and experience generally brings a level of consistency to players like that.

niallo27

GavRedKing wrote: »

Silva is better IMO but thats splitting very fine hairs.

Ozil is a fantastic footballer and allowed to be a pure #10 and not pushed onto the wing, he has practically no equal in England.

Looking at their assists and goals record, both are well above any other playmaker in the league.

Ozil in England 34 assists and 18 goals.

Silva in the same 4 year period as Ozil, 32 assists and 21 goals.

Couthino in the same period has 22 assists and 22 goals.

Those figures are pretty impressive for a young brazilian fella in his first few years in the premiership, if he keeps improving at this rate he should become a better player than silva and Ozil.

The Golden Miller

liam7831 wrote: »

Never heard of him

He plays for Arsenal and Germany

Too Tough To Die

Doesn't do it in the big games.

NomadicGray

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Doesn't do it in the big games.

Its arsenal, how many big games does he even get a chance to do it in

Mr.Nice Guy

He's been excellent. I was wondering why the press weren't focusing on him more.

Excellent player. Wasting his career at Arsenal

Skylinehead

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Excellent player. Wasting his career at Arsenal

Always hated this stupid line of reasoning. Slightly different situation, but ask Francesco Totti or Antonio di Natale whether they wasted their careers and they'll laugh in your face.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Always hated this stupid line of reasoning. Slightly different situation, but ask Francesco Totti or Antonio di Natale whether they wasted their careers and they'll laugh in your face.

Perhaps. They'd probably laugh at my attempt of Italian though

Skylinehead

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Perhaps. They'd probably laugh at my attempt of Italian though

CSF

cson wrote: »

I guess the folks saying he's not one of the world's elite mean that he's not in that select group comprising of Mr Messi & Mr Ronaldo yet? Bearing in mind those two players are extreme outliers the likes of which we're unlikely to see again.
Judging Ozil by his position, which categorically this season appears to be an advanced #10 then who would comprise his peers? Genuinely struggling to see a list of players better than him in his position that'd relegate him to the level below elite?
He's as close to a modern day Bergkamp as you'll get.
TL;DR; Ozil = Bergkamp, Sanchez = Henry

It's a bit of a misnomer as a lot of the biggest clubs in the world don't play someone in exactly the role that he does you know? You can't go to the likes of Barca, Bayern and Real, and say oh well he's better than their guy. Because very frequently there isn't a direct equivalent and that's just a style thing, some teams focus their attacks more frequently from wide positions.

I'll say this much if you move those exact parameters away, I would say that he is not in the top 5 attacking midfielders in the world. For me that would be Bale, Sanchez, Hazard, Iniesta and De Bruyne, in no particular order.

niallo27

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Perhaps. They'd probably laugh at my attempt of Italian though

Liam O

Ozil has been the best in his position in the league since day one. Arsenal finally have something resembling a team that he can really flourish in, even with more freedom to get forward and chip in with goals. Not that he was slacking last season at all.

As for the Coutinho comparisons that I knew would be in this thread, I'd wonder how many extra shots he's taken to get the same amount of goals and how many key pass attempts to get way less assists he's had to Ozil the last few seasons. There's a reason one plays for the team that's finished 3rd and 2nd the last 2 seasons and one for a team that has finished 6th and 8th the last 2 seasons.

Too Tough To Die

NomadicGray wrote: »

Its arsenal, how many big games does he even get a chance to do it in

That's a fair comment. I'd like to see him have one more run with a big club before he's past peak.

Liam O

CSF wrote: »

It's a bit of a misnomer as a lot of the biggest clubs in the world don't play someone in exactly the role that he does you know? You can't go to the likes of Barca, Bayern and Real, and say oh well he's better than their guy. Because very frequently there isn't a direct equivalent and that's just a style thing, some teams focus their attacks more frequently from wide positions.

I'll say this much if you move those exact parameters away, I would say that he is not in the top 5 attacking midfielders in the world. For me that would be Bale, Sanchez, Hazard, Iniesta and De Bruyne, in no particular order.

I'd far rather someone who I could consistently count on like Ozil than someone who doesn't give a shít half the time like Hazard. Ozil has proven himself at the top for Real too which is something that KDB can't say, even though he has been sublime at times since his City move. Bale is more of a forward than a midfielder and Iniesta plays a ridiculously different role to Ozil which is show by the disparaging assist totals over the last few seasons.

The only true like for like comparison on that list is KDB and while I'd rather sign KDB right now if I was a manager due to being younger, I think Ozil is the better player (may be due to him being a favourite of mine for a long time though). The fact Loew stuck with him in the WC even though he was out of form tells a lot imo.

niallo27

Liam O wrote: »

Ozil has been the best in his position in the league since day one. Arsenal finally have something resembling a team that he can really flourish in, even with more freedom to get forward and chip in with goals. Not that he was slacking last season at all.

As for the Coutinho comparisons that I knew would be in this thread, I'd wonder how many extra shots he's taken to get the same amount of goals and how many key pass attempts to get way less assists he's had to Ozil the last few seasons. There's a reason one plays for the team that's finished 3rd and 2nd the last 2 seasons and one for a team that has finished 6th and 8th the last 2 seasons.

Why so harsh on Coutinho. He is still a young lad. He actually has more goals that ozil despite having only cost a fraction of what ozil cost. You are comparing a guy just starting off in his career against one in his prime. Maybe your judgement is slightly biased for some reason. Ozil brilliant player by the way.

Liam O

niallo27 wrote: »

Why so harsh on Coutinho. He is still a young lad. He actually has more goals that ozil despite having only cost a fraction of what ozil cost. You are comparing a guy just starting off in his career against one in his prime. Maybe your judgement is slightly biased for some reason. Ozil brilliant player by the way.

I'm generally probably overly harsh on Coutinho due to the gushing praise he gets from all quarters which is undeserved imo. If he stuck to his strengths he could be great but his penchant for attempting the spectacular holds him back and means he wastes a lot of the ball. Looks like a world beater when it comes off but shrinks to pointlessness when it doesn't. Like a lot of Brazilian attacking midfielders these days.

As for "starting out his career", one of the more ludicrous statements in this thread as Ozil was playing at the very very top level when he was 22 and signed for not too much more than Coutinho for Liverpool.

CSF

Liam O wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

It's a bit of a misnomer as a lot of the biggest clubs in the world don't play someone in exactly the role that he does you know? You can't go to the likes of Barca, Bayern and Real, and say oh well he's better than their guy. Because very frequently there isn't a direct equivalent and that's just a style thing, some teams focus their attacks more frequently from wide positions.

I'll say this much if you move those exact parameters away, I would say that he is not in the top 5 attacking midfielders in the world. For me that would be Bale, Sanchez, Hazard, Iniesta and De Bruyne, in no particular order.

I'd far rather someone who I could consistently count on like Ozil than someone who doesn't give a sh t half the time like Hazard. Ozil has proven himself at the top for Real too which is something that KDB can't say, even though he has been sublime at times since his City move. Bale is more of a forward than a midfielder and Iniesta plays a ridiculously different role to Ozil which is show by the disparaging assist totals over the last few seasons.

The only true like for like comparison on that list is KDB and while I'd rather sign KDB right now if I was a manager due to being younger, I think Ozil is the better player (may be due to him being a favourite of mine for a long time though). The fact Loew stuck with him in the WC even though he was out of form tells a lot imo.

Fair enough, I'd have De Bruyne myself. Early days yet, but De Bruyne has been my player of the season so far.

mansize

NomadicGray wrote: »

Its arsenal, how many big games does he even get a chance to do it in

All those UCL games...

niallo27

Liam O wrote: »

I'm generally probably overly harsh on Coutinho due to the gushing praise he gets from all quarters which is undeserved imo. If he stuck to his strengths he could be great but his penchant for attempting the spectacular holds him back and means he wastes a lot of the ball. Looks like a world beater when it comes off but shrinks to pointlessness when it doesn't. Like a lot of Brazilian attacking midfielders these days.

As for "starting out his career", one of the more ludicrous statements in this thread as Ozil was playing at the very very top level when he was 22 and signed for not too much more than Coutinho for Liverpool.

Klopp has calmed him down a bit with the shooting lately, he has been incredible this season and only improving. My point about starting out his career meant you are comparing a young player to one in his prime.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

niallo27 wrote: »

Poor man's Coutinho. He doesn't score enough goals for me to be one of the elite players in world football.

Lol.

niallo27

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

Lol.

Omg wtf

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

niallo27 wrote: »

Omg wtf

Don't get offended. Your statement was ridiculous. Coutinho and Ozil aren't on the same planet.

CSF

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

niallo27 wrote: »

Omg wtf

Don't get offended. Your statement was ridiculous. Coutinho and Ozil aren't on the same planet.

There's not THAT much in the difference to be fair. I'd have Ozil myself and it's not so close that it's difficult for me to choose but Coutinho is very good too.

sReq | uTeK

niallo27 wrote: »

Why so harsh on Coutinho. He is still a young lad. He actually has more goals that ozil despite having only cost a fraction of what ozil cost. You are comparing a guy just starting off in his career against one in his prime. Maybe your judgement is slightly biased for some reason. Ozil brilliant player by the way.

When you put him on such a high pedestal and call Ozil a poor man's Coutinho you'd be be ready for the backlash.

Especially when it's a nonsensical statement and quite laughable

Lucas Hood

niallo27 wrote: »

Klopp has calmed him down a bit with the shooting lately, he has been incredible this season and only improving. My point about starting out his career meant you are comparing a young player to one in his prime.

I think i heard on football weekly awhile back that he takes twice as many shots under klopp compared to what he took with Rodgers.

Was a couple of months back mind you .

niallo27

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

When you put him on such a high pedestal and call Ozil a poor man's Coutinho you'd be be ready for the backlash.

Especially when it's a nonsensical statement and quite laughable

I did say my post was in jest in fairness.