The Genius of Mesut Ozil

niallo27

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I think i heard on football weekly awhile back that he takes twice as many shots under klopp compared to what he took with Rodgers.

Was a couple of months back mind you .

I think the Burnley game was a turning point. He had some crazy attempts that game. I have no stats just watching every game since he seems to have calmed down.

Quazzie

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

That's a fair comment. I'd like to see him have one more run with a big club before he's past peak.

Can you name some of the clubs bigger than Arsenal that you'd like him to play for?

niallo27

A serious question is though why can't arsenal with two world class players in its side get properly near to winning a title. These players should be the difference.

sReq | uTeK

niallo27 wrote: »

A serious question is though why can't arsenal with two world class players in its side get properly near to winning a title. These players should be the difference.

I thought 2nd was pretty close to 1st myself.....

brianregan09

The hate and bile for Arsenal in here is absolutely gold

Michael Thomas really left a lasting impression didn't he

niallo27

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I thought 2nd was pretty close to 1st myself.....

Arsenal haven't gone close to winning a title in quiet a while and you know it.

niallo27

brianregan09 wrote: »

The hate and bile for Arsenal in here is absolutely gold

Michael Thomas really left a lasting impression didn't he

I like Arsenal. Always had a soft spot for them. What hate do you talk of. Just because we don't think ozil is the next jesus doesn't mean we hate arsenal.

Quazzie

niallo27 wrote: »

Arsenal haven't gone close to winning a title in quiet a while and you know it.

They came closer than any other team apart from Leicester last year. How close do you want them to be?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

niallo27 wrote: »

A serious question is though why can't arsenal with two world class players in its side get properly near to winning a title. These players should be the difference.

You can't get closer than 2nd place. I'm not sure if you're serious or a really bad troll.

niallo27

Quazzie wrote: »

They came closer than any other team apart from Leicester last year. How close do you want them to be?

Come on come on.

Gringo180

sugarman wrote: »

If hes such a genius, why did he move to Arsenal

NomadicGray wrote: »

Its arsenal, how many big games does he even get a chance to do it in

niallo27 wrote: »

I like Arsenal. Always had a soft spot for them. What hate do you talk of. Just because we don't think ozil is the next jesus doesn't mean we hate arsenal.

That sort of hate above. Had to be from a Liverpool or Spurs fan. Ridiculous comments to be fair especially with the players that have went onto better themselves after leaving those respective clubs.

Gringo180

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Excellent player. Wasting his career at Arsenal

Is that why Suarez left Liverpool?

sReq | uTeK

Quazzie wrote: »

They came closer than any other team apart from Leicester last year. How close do you want them to be?

Give him time. The concept of 1st and 2nd will soon be understood.

TheCitizen

Completely ott thread. Nothing against Ozil, a good player certainly but not on the scale described by some on this thread. Some poster in post 5 on the thread says "I think he's been the world's best number 10 for years." What are ya talking about?
Ridiculous thread.

Gringo180

TheCitizen wrote: »

Completely ott thread. Nothing against Ozil, a good player certainly but not on the scale described by some on this thread. Some poster in post 5 on the thread says "I think he's been the world's best number 10 for years." What are ya talking about?
Ridiculous thread.

Why are you commenting so nobody asked you to post in the thread you big numpty.

sReq | uTeK

Gringo180 wrote: »

Why are you commenting so nobody asked you to post in the thread you big numpty.

Hahaha in stitches here

TheCitizen

Gringo180 wrote: »

Why are you commenting so nobody asked you to post in the thread you big numpty.

I'm commenting on the thread and how ridiculously ott it is. Have you got a problem with that?

Perhaps the thread is some kind of in-joke that I'm unaware of?

ERG89

Arsenal is the perfect place for him, suit his style and the game goes through him whereas at Madrid he wasn't able to play to his strengths.

redzerdrog

Seen a tweet after his goal last night.

'Fairplay to Ozil, chipping it over an accountant, leaving a painter on his arse and banging it past the plumber on the line!'

:-)

Liam O

TheCitizen wrote: »

Completely ott thread. Nothing against Ozil, a good player certainly but not on the scale described by some on this thread. Some poster in post 5 on the thread says "I think he's been the world's best number 10 for years." What are ya talking about?
Ridiculous thread.

Well he broke assist records as far as I remember in La Liga, everyone said it was just Ronaldo and he comes and does the same in the PL. All the while looking great in possession and with some very wasteful attackers who have if anything held his ridiculous numbers back.

Also a current World Cup holder and picked even when going through a bad patch should show how highly regarded he is. Heck given how much Mourinho played him despite the style of play he has should tell you a lot. His style in that time didn't have those kind of players as central to the system shown when he dropped Mata upon his return to Chelsea. Ozil was simply just too good.

This article shows just how good he is seen as being. I don't see how it's ridiculous to say he was the best number 10 in Europe when he assisted more goals than anyone over 3 seasons?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-cristiano-ronaldo-angry-about-mesut-ozils-departure-from-real-madrid-despite-gareth-8797944.html

domrush

TheCitizen wrote: »

Completely ott thread. Nothing against Ozil, a good player certainly but not on the scale described by some on this thread. Some poster in post 5 on the thread says "I think he's been the world's best number 10 for years." What are ya talking about?
Ridiculous thread.

Edit: Most of my points made above


I don't see why its so OTT, he's been a star for years, one of the best premier league players for the past two years, easily the best passer in the league and he's the playmaker for the current world champions. He also led Europe in assists at Real Madrid. He might not be THE best number 10 in the world but he's up there? Correct me if I'm wrong

TheCitizen

Liam O wrote: »

Well he broke assist records as far as I remember in La Liga, everyone said it was just Ronaldo and he comes and does the same in the PL. All the while looking great in possession and with some very wasteful attackers who have if anything held his ridiculous numbers back.

Also a current World Cup holder and picked even when going through a bad patch should show how highly regarded he is. Heck given how much Mourinho played him despite the style of play he has should tell you a lot. His style in that time didn't have those kind of players as central to the system shown when he dropped Mata upon his return to Chelsea. Ozil was simply just too good.

This article shows just how good he is seen as being. I don't see how it's ridiculous to say he was the best number 10 in Europe when he assisted more goals than anyone over 3 seasons?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-cristiano-ronaldo-angry-about-mesut-ozils-departure-from-real-madrid-despite-gareth-8797944.html

His "bad patch" as you put it went on for a good spell. I suppose the Arsenal fans can't help but to have a circle jerk about statistically having the best assister in the EPL, given they never actually win anything of note.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

TheCitizen wrote: »

His "bad patch" as you put it went on for a good spell. I suppose the Arsenal fans can't help but to have a circle jerk about statistically having the best assister in the EPL, given they never actually win anything of note.

What a pathetic spiteful post. Can you not discuss him without resorting to that level? Why have a go?

TheCitizen

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

What a pathetic spiteful post. Can you not discuss him without resorting to that level? Why have a go?

I already described him as a good player but said the gushing praise for him in this thread is ott, but it's not allowed it seems to demur from the prevailing view on here. Ridiculous carry on.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

TheCitizen wrote: »

I already described him as a good player but said the gushing praise for him in this thread is ott, but it's not allowed it seems to demur from the prevailing view on here. Ridiculous carry on.

Fair enough. Discuss it then? Why don't you think he's all that?

I think to the casual viewer who only looks at goals and assists and highlighs of matches you may think he's only a "good player"... I watch him every week and he's nothing short of a genius.
Even in that dry patch he had he was still creating more chances than anyone but somehow Giroud and co. messed up those chances a lot of the time.
He's a phenomenal passer...his vision is absolutely unmatched in the PL right now. The only thing I can really fault him on is his finishing. A lot of the time his shots are tame, it seems like he always needs to miss one to score one. He's getting better in that department though...he's smashed in a few this season. For me he's ahead of even Alexis as the first name on the team sheet.

bur

Would have dragged Arsenal to a real title or two if he wasn't so weak mentally.

TheCitizen

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

Fair enough. Discuss it then? Why don't you think he's all that?

I think to the casual viewer who only looks at goals and assists and highlighs of matches you may think he's only a "good player"... I watch him every week and he's nothing short of a genius.
Even in that dry patch he had he was still creating more chances than anyone but somehow Giroud and co. messed up those chances a lot of the time.
He's a phenomenal passer...his vision is absolutely unmatched in the PL right now. The only thing I can really fault him on is his finishing. A lot of the time his shots are tame, it seems like he always needs to miss one to score one. He's getting better in that department though...he's smashed in a few this season. For me he's ahead of even Alexis as the first name on the team sheet.

He's a World Cup winner on the German team in 2014 and has won a La Liga (one) with Real Madrid. Bar that he's won a few Cup medals and not won player of the year in England or Spain or Ballon D'or. No, I don't think he's "all that" that he's been written up by some on this thread.

Corholio

He's an outstanding player of course and Arsenal's style of play definitely suits him. The whole assists record at Real gets mentioned a lot and perfectly fair enough to of course but it has to be said that doesn't quite tell the whole story at Real. Arsenal got a very good player but Real selling him and transitioning in Modric was a masterstroke. He won't have assists or goals records but he made Real a better overall team than Ozil did. Ozil had some really frustrating games at Real amongst his very good ones, Modric has been far more consistent as Real player, and all this even with a difficult first season.

niallo27

Just to get this straight do arsenal fans really think they came close and actually challenged for the title last year.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

niallo27 wrote: »

Just to get this straight do arsenal fans really think they came close and actually challenged for the title last year.

What's you're game. Are you intentionally asking stupid questions for a reaction.

dfx-

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He's been excellent. I was wondering why the press weren't focusing on him more.

There is definitely an exasperation feeling towards Arsenal in general it seems. We've seen this all before and it has yet to get to the point whether this is going be any different.

On Ozil, it's sort of hard to differentiate between all of the similar type of players in his position as I see it, a roaming sort of 10? Mata, Silva, De Bruyne would be all ahead of him for me. Hazard would've been close maybe two seasons ago as well.

mansize

Mata??? Really??

Gringo180

Gringo180 wrote: »

Is that why Suarez left Liverpool?

Liverpool was a stepping stone for Suarez, absolutely.

Barcelona was a step up from Liverpool.

Arsenal a step down from Madrid.

JustTheOne

mansize wrote: »

Mata??? Really??

I know I near spit coffee over my phone when I just read that now:)

elefant

niallo27 wrote: »

A serious question is though why can't arsenal with two world class players in its side get properly near to winning a title. These players should be the difference.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I thought 2nd was pretty close to 1st myself.....

Quazzie wrote: »

They came closer than any other team apart from Leicester last year. How close do you want them to be?

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

You can't get closer than 2nd place. I'm not sure if you're serious or a really bad troll.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Give him time. The concept of 1st and 2nd will soon be understood.

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

What's you're game. Are you intentionally asking stupid questions for a reaction.

I'd only love to see Arsenal win the premier league again for excitement's sake, but they didn't come anywhere close to winning the league last season. Leicester walked away with it. The only team that looked like pushing them anyway close was Spurs.

To claim anything else is either pedantry or delusion.

KaiserGunner

JustTheOne wrote: »

I know I near spit coffee over my phone when I just read that now:)

Yeah two players I get told a lot, that are better than Ozil, are Mata and Coutinho. Quite laughable tbh. I know it's being said in jest by a couple of people on here, but some people genuinely believe that. Ozil is on another level to Coutinho and Mata.

Anyway I don't really like comparing players and having a dick measuring contest. Ozil is a quality player for Arsenal and that's all that matters as an Arsenal fan. They need to get him signed up on a new contract though as him leaving could be disastrous and be almost impossible to replace. That's the only slight worry I have with him.

KaiserGunner

elefant wrote: »

I'd only love to see Arsenal win the premier league again for excitement's sake, but they didn't come anywhere close to winning the league last season. Leicester walked away with it. The only team that looked like pushing them anyway close was Spurs.

To claim anything else is either pedantry or delusion.

Yeah I'd agree with you there, Arsenal didn't really challenge for the title as it was clear towards the end of March, early April that the title was out of reach. Was still great to pip Spurs to second place though and the league table never lies, so Arsenal were second best last season.
I'm expecting a more credible challenge this season, pushing it to the last couple of matches at least and I expect Ozil to be pivotal in this challenge.

He's a good player on a good run of form, but there was a lot of doubt at stages in his Arsenal career, one need only google "Ozil worst buy ever" to bring up a stack of headlines from 2014. Of course they were hyperbole too. But not sure the true greats are ever described as such, I can't recall Messi or Aguero ever being described in those terms.

greendom

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He's a good player on a good run of form, but there was a lot of doubt at stages in his Arsenal career, one need only google "Ozil worst buy ever" to bring up a stack of headlines from 2014. Of course they were hyperbole too. But not sure the true greats are ever described as such, I can't recall Messi or Aguero ever being described in those terms.

The Stuart Pearce remarks on Bergkamp comes to mind!

I also remember the first season or 2 when Ronaldo was at United. He was seen as a veryyoung skillful player not quite matched by his end product

gosplan

Comparisons are silly.

Especially some notion about having to win things.

I mean you can't say that Alonso and Gerrard were only great for Liverpool because of the CL victory and that Torres wasn't cause he wasn't involved. It's silly stuff.

I mean we're all grown ups capable of looking at a player as someone who makes an individual contribution and judge them on that.

As regards Ozil, Wenger was right - if you love football you love Ozil. That's purely based on how enjoyable he is to watch when he plays. It's beautiful at times.

But if he's world class now where he's only 3 off his goal record for an entire season at the beginning of November, then you have to ask questions about previous years.

Yes he's the assist king of the universe but last year when faced with a misfiring disjointed front line, is that enough to be truly effective?

Arguments on both sides hold water. I don't think there's a more skilful player around but then there have been more effective midfielders. Until this current vein of form to be honest. Right now he's having more of an impact than ever.

Arsenal fans need to accept that too. Obviously we've always been happy Ozil is at our club because he's always been really really good, but this current version that is stepping on the field is as much as we ever hoped for when he signed.

noodler

I am surprised how good Coutinho's stats are in relation to Ozil actually.

Scorer of genuinely important goals too. Winners against City, Equalisers against Arsenal, Quarter finals vs Dortmund, last 16 vs Utd etc etc.

Ozil has serious pedigree and is surely better but still think the gap between him and the Count is overrated.

Coutinho has.had to deal with some utter ****e during his time at Liverpool.

GavRedKing

Its also wise to remember that Couthino hasnt done it on a level near Ozil, be it at a European or international stage, given time he may reach those levels, he is about 4 years younger than Ozil so he has time on his side but Ozil was lining out for Real Madrid at 22 after a stellar WC.

noodler

GavRedKing wrote: »

Its also wise to remember that Couthino hasnt done it on a level near Ozil, be it at a European or international stage, given time he may reach those levels, he is about 4 years younger than Ozil so he has time on his side but Ozil was lining out for Real Madrid at 22 after a stellar WC.

Fair.

A lot of that isn't down to him I'd argue.

You could play the whole "if hebwas good enough he'd be playing for Brazil in world cups or be playing forna champions league team" butnit doesn't always work like that.

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

He's a good player on a good run of form, but there was a lot of doubt at stages in his Arsenal career, one need only google "Ozil worst buy ever" to bring up a stack of headlines from 2014. Of course they were hyperbole too. But not sure the true greats are ever described as such, I can't recall Messi or Aguero ever being described in those terms.

I'd be interested in seeing what publications these headlines are from. I remember one in particular from the Daily Mail, absolute hatchet job on him because he got injured in the first half against Bayern.

GavRedKing

Skylinehead wrote: »

I'd be interested in seeing what publications these headlines are from. I remember one in particular from the Daily Mail, absolute hatchet job on him because he got injured in the first half against Bayern.

I'll have you know that the Daily Mail are a highly reputable source of news and unbiased opinions.

> >

< <

Rayne Wooney

The first page of this thread is painful, the usual suspects massively over exaggerating a consistently average player.

Ozil is probably the best number 10 of recent years but he really lacks the killer mindset that could make him a real great player even though he's had a great career.

greendom

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'll have you know that the Daily Mail are a highly reputable source of news and unbiased opinions.

> >

< <

Was it a Daily Mail journalist who said that Ozil was "nicking a living"

MD1990

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The first page of this thread is painful, the usual suspects massively over exaggerating a consistently average player.

Ozil is probably the best number 10 of recent years but he really lacks the killer mindset that could make him a real great player even though he's had a great career.

He was voted by opposition players in the PL team of the year in 14/15.
He has been improving further since Klopp has taken over too.
Your the usual suspect downplaying any Liverpool player who is rated highly. Still happy with Darmian over Clyne lol.

Quazzie

MD1990 wrote: »

He was voted by opposition players in the PL team of the year in 14/15.
He has been improving further since Klopp has taken over too.
Your the usual suspect downplaying any Liverpool player who is rated highly. Still happy with Darmian over Clyne lol.

I think he was talking about Ozil.

:rolleyes:
Paranoid much?

MD1990

Quazzie wrote: »

I think he was talking about Ozil.

:rolleyes:
Paranoid much?

I underlined & bolded what part of the post I was referring to. Very easy to see.