The Genius of Mesut Ozil

TheCitizen

mansize wrote: »

The irony of that statement from a Celtic fan...

Whit?

TheCitizen

mansize wrote: »

I think you'll find its the same length of time...

Is it I didn't know that. You know about Arsenal stuff, fair play a duit.

KaiserGunner

niallo27 wrote: »

Think we should change the name of this thread to couthino. Brilliant again today compared to an anonymous display by ozil.

Are we going to be doing this every week now? Ozil v Coutinho watch?

Osmosis Jones

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Are we going to be doing this every week now? Ozil v Coutinho watch?

Not a bad couple of players to get to watch every week sure.

mansize

TheCitizen wrote: »

Is it I didn't know that. You know about Arsenal stuff, fair play a duit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4bIAR__Uhk

niallo27

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Are we going to be doing this every week now? Ozil v Coutinho watch?

Yes I think so.

Not too enamoured with him on the Arsenal thread...

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Not too enamoured with him on the Arsenal thread...

He buckled big time under the pressure in the 2nd half.
And I have defended him in here, yesterdays performance was very bad

noodler

I hope my fellow football fans don't go too OTT about the odd game in 20.

GavRedKing

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He buckled big time under the pressure in the 2nd half.
And I have defended him in here, yesterdays performance was very bad

I think yesterday coupled with the Everton goal mid week, will put peoples mind firmly in the "big game, doesnt play" mind set.

Its not always the case that hes under performed or "gone missing" but it speaks volume that even his own fans, when a big result doesnt go there way, land heavy criticism at Ozils feet first without looking at the collective and blaming the team or Wenger.

However, you do expect a German WC winner whos played with Real Madrid to at least perform more reguarly in these bigger games, maybe not to grab goals and assists in all these games but to have more positive influence on it.

I think it was squawka who had stats and numbers up saying he completed no take ons or created no chances during the game but again, Ozil is usually singled out first for criticism after a loss to a top rival, when others have performed equally as poor.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

I think yesterday coupled with the Everton goal mid week, will put peoples mind firmly in the "big game, doesnt play" mind set.

Its not always the case that hes under performed or "gone missing" but it speaks volume that even his own fans, when a big result doesnt go there way, land heavy criticism at Ozils feet first without looking at the collective and blaming the team or Wenger.

However, you do expect a German WC winner whos played with Real Madrid to at least perform more reguarly in these bigger games, maybe not to grab goals and assists in all these games but to have more positive influence on it.

I think it was squawka who had stats and numbers up saying he completed no take ons or created no chances during the game but again, Ozil is usually singled out first for criticism after a loss to a top rival, when others have performed equally as poor.

Ozil was never a the type of player to grasp a game when the chips are down.
I agree the issue is collective and with Wenger himself. I'm not having a one off nit pick at Ozil because he's still a quality player but not the type of player that can get Arsenal out of a situation such as yesterday.
Might sound cliche but Arsenal don't have a player to grab the game by the scruff and grind it out.
I actually think this performance was always coming and it's not that suprising.
Utd have been trying to find form and if we were more clinical we would have beaten Arsenal comfortably earlier in the season, Arsenal were equally as spineless in that game as they were against City yesterday IMO

TheCitizen

Gringo180 wrote: »

Only team in the history of the Premier Lge to go unbeaten in a season. Bottlers indeed :pac:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38359736

Hmmmm

Leroy42

There seems to be a lot of abuse in terms of his lack of chasing down, tracking back etc.

Whilst it is clearly the case, Ozil not running around in midfield is not the reason Arsenal lost. Messi etc don't spend much time chasing back. It appears to be a particular English thing that players are useless if they aren't running around with veins sticking out.

Now, that doesn't excuse his terrible contribution yesterday, but focus on the parts of the game he should be doing that he didn't, like the take on, crosses etc, not the other stuff that plenty of other players are in the team to do.

Kirby

Leroy42 wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of abuse in terms of his lack of chasing down, tracking back etc.

Whilst it is clearly the case, Ozil not running around in midfield is not the reason Arsenal lost. Messi etc don't spend much time chasing back. It appears to be a particular English thing that players are useless if they aren't running around with veins sticking out.

Now, that doesn't excuse his terrible contribution yesterday, but focus on the parts of the game he should be doing that he didn't, like the take on, crosses etc, not the other stuff that plenty of other players are in the team to do.

Messi under Pep was a tracking, pressing and chasing machine. He ran a fierce amount every game and closed down with the rest of the team because it was the way Barca played and it was demanded of everyone.

Towards the end of Peps tenure and ever since, yes he has been lazy but it wasn't always this way. Ozil has always been lazy. He just isnt that type of player and his managers don't challenge him to do it.

TheCitizen

Leroy42 wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of abuse in terms of his lack of chasing down, tracking back etc.

Whilst it is clearly the case, Ozil not running around in midfield is not the reason Arsenal lost. Messi etc don't spend much time chasing back. It appears to be a particular English thing that players are useless if they aren't running around with veins sticking out.

Now, that doesn't excuse his terrible contribution yesterday, but focus on the parts of the game he should be doing that he didn't, like the take on, crosses etc, not the other stuff that plenty of other players are in the team to do.

It's a fairly damning criticism by Phil McNulty on the Beeb website there, while also acknowledging his good points as well. I think it's fair to say that this thread was ott in its gushing appraisal.

Mesut Ozil is a graceful creator. He can make and score goals and influence games - but when Arsenal needed him as the chips were down at Everton and Manchester City, he went missing.

At Goodison Park, he carelessly squandered a potentially decisive chance when the score was 1-1, and when Ashley Williams powered in to head Everton's late winner, Ozil was heavily criticised for turning away from the challenge, appearing to flinch as the defender charged in.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Leroy42 wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of abuse in terms of his lack of chasing down, tracking back etc.

Whilst it is clearly the case, Ozil not running around in midfield is not the reason Arsenal lost. Messi etc don't spend much time chasing back. It appears to be a particular English thing that players are useless if they aren't running around with veins sticking out.

Now, that doesn't excuse his terrible contribution yesterday, but focus on the parts of the game he should be doing that he didn't, like the take on, crosses etc, not the other stuff that plenty of other players are in the team to do.

Lionel Messi scores at least 40 goals per season so I think you can give him a pass for maybe not working as hard anymore, he's way way more productive than Ozil is.

Ozil is a classy player but that's kind of the problem with him everything he does when he does it well is lovely to watch but there's doesn't seem to be much real grit to him he can't seem to play ugly and dog it out to help his team win.The likes of Bergkamp and Henry in the past who were classy players in the past for Arsenal had a lot of grit and determination.

Why didn't Ozil drop deeper yesterday and get on the ball and try and get Arsenal going? He should have showed more initiative and tried to make something happen rather than hoping for the game to came to him instead.

TheCitizen

I wonder does the op regret his opening contribution on this thread and the posters who all "thanked" him in support? Hard to justify it in the light of recent evidence.

GavRedKing

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Lionel Messi scores at least 40 goals per season so I think you can give him a pass for maybe not working as hard anymore, he's way way more productive than Ozil is.

Ozil is a classy player but that's kind of the problem with him everything he does when he does it well is lovely to watch but there's doesn't seem to be much real grit to him he can't seem to play ugly and dog it out to help his team win.The likes of Bergkamp and Henry in the past who were classy players in the past for Arsenal had a lot of grit and determination.

Why didn't Ozil drop deeper yesterday and get on the ball and try and get Arsenal going? He should have showed more initiative and tried to make something happen rather than hoping for the game to came to him instead.

Id agree with all that but he also needs someone from his team on the pitch giving him a bollocking for not doing any of the above either.

Ditto for Wenger, a manager has to get his point across and if a player isnt, or isnt appearing to be putting in a the bare minimum, someone has to spot it and tell him up his game.

Nobody is blameless, Arsenal started well but City came into it, which a side with that much talent will always do and Kosclieny among other should have demanded more from Ozil but again, I'd not be quick to push the blame all onto Ozils shoulders, its a team game but if hes not doing the minimum, someone has to have a word with him during the game and hopefully get him going.

On his day hes the best #10 in the league, some days he looks like a fella brought in from the stands in an Ozil kit.

greendom

TheCitizen wrote: »

I wonder does the op regret his opening contribution on this thread and the posters who all "thanked" him in support? Hard to justify it in the light of recent evidence.

He's not performing at his usual level at the moment but the op's posts still applies.

The old adage applies - form is temporary, class is permanent

TheCitizen

greendom wrote: »

He's not performing at his usual level at the moment but the op's posts still applies.

The old adage applies - form is temporary, class is permanent

I disagree. The op's posts were inaccurate hyperbole.

Kirby

greendom wrote: »

He's not performing at his usual level at the moment but the op's posts still applies.

The old adage applies - form is temporary, class is permanent

That adage does apply. But it's often misused. How often has Ozil been class? Has it been more than he has been poor?

Form is temporary, mediocrity is permanent.

It's not as pithy but equally true. We have seen decent players go on amazing runs of form (Andy Carroll, Jamie Vardy) and then slide back to their normal level.

Now I would not describe Ozil as mediocre. He is too talented for that. But football is full of talented players who never lived up to their potential due to lazyness.

KaiserGunner

I'm one of Ozil's biggest fans, but he really has let himself down (along with a few other Arsenal players) the past two matches. Hopefully he gets his act together for the upcoming matches. Interesting to see where he ends up next season, as I really don't think he will be signing a new deal, hope I'm wrong though.

Iused2likebusts

Bit of an overreaction he has had two poor games in what were two tough games for his club. He has had a good season and seems to have added goals to his game. There seems to be no middle ground with a lot of people that post in the SF. Arsenal were supposed no hopers after an opening day loss. Then Chelsea under conte were going nowhere, Jose has lost the magic, pep is a spoofer , klopp can only play one way etc. The league takes shape around now as everyone has played everyone in another 2 games. Lo and behold the best 6 teams are up there. No player plays well every week and teams don't win every week although Chelsea are doing a good job of that lately.

GavRedKing

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Bit of an overreaction he has had two poor games in what were two tough games for his club. He has had a good season and seems to have added goals to his game. There seems to be no middle ground with a lot of people that post in the SF. Arsenal were supposed no hopers after an opening day loss. Then Chelsea under conte were going nowhere, Jose has lost the magic, pep is a spoofer , klopp can only play one way etc. The league takes shape around now as everyone has played everyone in another 2 games. Lo and behold the best 6 teams are up there. No player plays well every week and teams don't win every week although Chelsea are doing a good job of that lately.

The Chelsea over reaction in September was brilliant from the media, over reaction saying the sky was gonna fall for Chelsea, stemmed from last years failure of Jose and by and a large, a very similar squad and one that ultimately finished 10th.

Going into September we had a 100% record in the league, it was those 3 matches coupled with Citys excellent start that made it look a lot worse for Chelsea. We've won every league match in every month other than September which made the media over reacting even better and very knee jerk.

garra

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Lionel Messi scores at least 40 goals per season so I think you can give him a pass for maybe not working as hard anymore, he's way way more productive than Ozil is.

Ozil is a classy player but that's kind of the problem with him everything he does when he does it well is lovely to watch but there's doesn't seem to be much real grit to him he can't seem to play ugly and dog it out to help his team win.The likes of Bergkamp and Henry in the past who were classy players in the past for Arsenal had a lot of grit and determination.

Why didn't Ozil drop deeper yesterday and get on the ball and try and get Arsenal going? He should have showed more initiative and tried to make something happen rather than hoping for the game to came to him instead.

Why didn't Sanchez do likewise?

Quazzie

garra wrote: »

Why didn't Sanchez do likewise?

Because Sanchez was our one and only striker!