Bank Holiday Pay: Full time temporary staff

shroomdoom

Hi there,

I've recently started new employment and didn't work 40 hours before the bank holiday so, as such, I've been informed I'm not entitled to holiday pay.

However, on investigating the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 and Citizens Information, some parts seem ambiguous. The law refers to "whole time" employees without giving specifics and Citizens Information says that only temporary staff need to work the 40 hours required before the holiday to get pay.

Does anyone have any clarity on this?

davo10

shroomdoom wrote: »

Hi there,

I've recently started new employment and didn't work 40 hours before the bank holiday so, as such, I've been informed I'm not entitled to holiday pay.

However, on investigating the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 and Citizens Information, some parts seem ambiguous. The law refers to "whole time" employees without giving specifics and Citizens Information says that only temporary staff need to work the 40 hours required before the holiday to get pay.

Does anyone have any clarity on this?

Do you want to start off a new job that you have only been in for a couple of days with a fight with your employer about a day you didn't work? I suspect you would be shown the door pretty sharpish.

shroomdoom

davo10 wrote: »

Do you want to start off a new job that you have only been in for a couple of days with a fight with your employer about a day you didn't work? I suspect you would be shown the door pretty sharpish.

I'm not sure that's how the law works.

I did work that day.

davo10

shroomdoom wrote: »

I'm not sure that's how the law works.

edit: sorry I misread your op, I thought you hadn't worked on the BH.

I still wouldn't be inclined to rock the boat after working there less than a week.

Stheno

shroomdoom wrote: »

Hi there,

I've recently started new employment and didn't work 40 hours before the bank holiday so, as such, I've been informed I'm not entitled to holiday pay.

However, on investigating the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 and Citizens Information, some parts seem ambiguous. The law refers to "whole time" employees without giving specifics and Citizens Information says that only temporary staff need to work the 40 hours required before the holiday to get pay.

Does anyone have any clarity on this?

How long are you working there and how many hours have you done so far in total?

shroomdoom

davo10 wrote: »

It's how reality works. If you haven't worked 40 hours then in all likelihood you haven't even been there one week. Do you want to fall out with your employer over a day you didn't work?

I repeat, I did work that day.

I worked 24 hours. Citizens Information interprets yes the law thus:

"Your entitlement to public holidays is set out in the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997. Most employees are entitled to paid leave on public holidays. One exception is part-time employees who have not worked for their employer at least 40 hours in total in the 5 weeks before the public holiday."

I am a full time but temporary member of staff. I had worked 24 hours before this point. It may seem pedantic but the difference is a large amount to me.

davo10

shroomdoom wrote: »

I repeat, I did work that day.

I worked 24 hours. Citizens Information interprets yes the law thus:

"Your entitlement to public holidays is set out in the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997. Most employees are entitled to paid leave on public holidays. One exception is part-time employees who have not worked for their employer at least 40 hours in total in the 5 weeks before the public holiday."

I am a full time but temporary member of staff. I had worked 24 hours before this point. It may seem pedantic but the difference is a large amount to me.

How many hours per day? How many days?

shroomdoom

davo10 wrote: »

How many hours per day? How many days?

8 hours a day over 3 days.

Stheno

And are you just getting your normal pay for working the bank holiday?

shroomdoom

Stheno wrote: »

And are you just getting your normal pay for working the bank holiday?

Yes and no day in lieu or anything like that.

davo10

shroomdoom wrote: »

8 hours a day over 3 days.

Are you working 5 days per week?

shroomdoom

davo10 wrote: »

Are you working 5 days per week?

Yes

Stheno

shroomdoom wrote: »

Yes

But only had three before the bank holiday, I can see your employers reasoning. It seems to be a grey area though

shroomdoom

Stheno wrote: »

But only had three before the bank holiday, I can see your employers reasoning. It seems to be a grey area though

I can see their reasoning too and the law is very ambiguous, it simply says "whole time" in reference to employees who aren't temporary.

davo10

shroomdoom wrote: »

Yes

Which is more important to you, getting a benefit that you may or may not be entitled to after 3 days, or holding on to your temporary job?

You may well be entitled to it but to be honest, a lot of employers may be a little peeved by you asking about so soon after you started and before you have even worked a full week. Personally I wouldn't be going to the manager about this even though you may be right.

shroomdoom

davo10 wrote: »

Which is more important to you, getting a benefit that you may or may not be entitled to after 3 days, or holding on to your temporary job?

You may well be entitled to it but to be honest, a lot of employers may be a little peeved by you asking about so soon after you started and before you have even worked a full week. Personally I wouldn't be going to the manager about this even though you may be right.

While I understand your concern, I highly doubt I'd be fired for politely asking if their policy was correct.

davo10

shroomdoom wrote: »

While I understand your concern, I highly doubt I'd be fired for politely asking if their policy was correct.

I thought you had already politely asked and they informed you that they weren't paying you extra?

I'm not concerned.

shroomdoom

davo10 wrote: »

I thought you had already politely asked and they informed you that they weren't paying you extra?

I'm not concerned.

No, they informed us and I was asking for clarity.

Your attitude is much appreciated.

Ogogo

Off the top of my head the way it works is that you get paid proportionally on the amount of hours that you have worked. eg. there are 9 bank holidays in the year, if you work the full year you get paid for all the bank holidays. If you are working on temporary contract and have so far worked 18.75 hours (approx .5 week - I assume) then you should be paid approx .5/52 of the normal rate for the bank holiday in question.

If someone normally earned €10/hour that would men under these circumstances that they would be entitled to be paid €0.72 - so while its not Zero - its probably not worth getting terribly upset over it.

This is not a shed load of cash if you are not going to be there for long, but if you will be working all year it will add up to nearly 2 weeks pay. Holiday pay is a different but additional matter that will also accumulate on all the hours you work (at the same rate a permanent person at the same company is entitled to) This might roughly equate to an accumulation of circa 8% of hours as holiday entitlement.

The law is not open to interpretation as far as holiday pay for temporary staff is concerned - its just not explained well.

shroomdoom

Ogogo wrote: »

Off the top of my head the way it works is that you get paid proportionally on the amount of hours that you have worked. eg. there are 9 bank holidays in the year, if you work the full year you get paid for all the bank holidays. If you are working on temporary contract and have so far worked 18.75 hours (approx .5 week - I assume) then you should be paid approx .5/52 of the normal rate for the bank holiday in question.

If someone normally earned €10/hour that would men under these circumstances that they would be entitled to be paid €0.72 - so while its not Zero - its probably not worth getting terribly upset over it.

This is not a shed load of cash if you are not going to be there for long, but if you will be working all year it will add up to nearly 2 weeks pay. Holiday pay is a different but additional matter that will also accumulate on all the hours you work (at the same rate a permanent person at the same company is entitled to) This might roughly equate to an accumulation of circa 8% of hours as holiday entitlement.

The law is not open to interpretation as far as holiday pay for temporary staff is concerned - its just not explained well.

Thank you for your informative response. Are public holidays treated separately to the normal accrued holiday hours or is it all part and parcel of the same process?

Ogogo

shroomdoom wrote: »

Thank you for your informative response. Are public holidays treated separately to the normal accrued holiday hours or is it all part and parcel of the same process?

They are counted separately.

Mrs OBumble

shroomdoom wrote: »

While I understand your concern, I highly doubt I'd be fired for politely asking if their policy was correct.

Maybe you're working in the sort of place where that's true. Or maybe not. We cannot tell, and it's worth saying that some employers will take even a polite request from someone just in the door badly.

Turnipman

"Conditions for qualifying for Public Holiday benefit"

3.2 Employees, other than part-time, have an immediate entitlement to
public holiday benefits. Part-time employees must have worked at
least 40 hours in the 5 weeks ending on the day before the public
holiday to qualify for public holiday benefit.

Page 13 - https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/publications_forms/guide_to_the_owt_act_-_holidays_public_holidays.pdf

Stheno

Turnipman wrote: »

"Conditions for qualifying for Public Holiday benefit"

3.2 Employees, other than part-time, have an immediate entitlement to
public holiday benefits. Part-time employees must have worked at
least 40 hours in the 5 weeks ending on the day before the public
holiday to qualify for public holiday benefit.

Page 13 - https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/publications_forms/guide_to_the_owt_act_-_holidays_public_holidays.pdf

That clarifies it for op so.

Ogogo

Stheno wrote: »

That clarifies it for op so.

Actually that document does seem very clear. i am scratching my head to figure out how I came to my original conclusion...