If England and Scotland defy the poppy ban...

...and wear the symbol, despite FIFA warnings, should they face a sanction and if so, what? There is a mention of a possible points deduction.

It would seem harsh to deduct points already earned, but perhaps a signal that any points won in that fixture may not be applied would be fairer?

greendom

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...and wear the symbol, despite FIFA warnings, should they face a sanction and if so, what? There is a mention of a possible points deduction.

It would seem harsh to deduct points already earned, but perhaps a signal that any points won in that fixture may not be applied would be fairer?

This is great for the FA. They must be delighted with the opportunity to stick it to the man and get the support of your average English fan. I think that would even be worth a points deduction especially as the group they are in looks so qualify.

That would of course all change should England fail to qualify thanks to the points lost through wearing the poppy.

I was thinking the same about England..but things might be different for Scotland, they can't be so generous with possible points.

Dirty Dingus McGee

There will be no punishment or anything like that.

It doesn't bother me but just for the laugh I hope it sets a precedent and loads of other countries decide to commemorate what they want and really piss off the British media at some stage by commemorating something that they aren't happy with.

duffman13

I seen an article yesterday (UK paper) raising it as double standards that we commemorated the 100 year anniversary of the rising in a friendly.

In some ways I think it's a ridiculous rule, in other ways the poppy can be quite divisive, imagine England meeting Iraq or Ireland in the 2022 world cup and wearing the popppy. Might not bother some but it'll bother others!

RobbieTheRobber

duffman13 wrote: »

I seen an article yesterday (UK paper) raising it as double standards that we commemorated the 100 year anniversary of the rising in a friendly.

In some ways I think it's a ridiculous rule, in other ways the poppy can be quite divisive, imagine England meeting Iraq or Ireland in the 2022 world cup and wearing the popppy. Might not bother some but it'll bother others!

They wouldn't wear the poppy unless the world cup was moved to November (armistice day 12th November.
I think the poppy is a politically divisive symbol and while I don't care if they wear it, I can see this being offensive to some.

murpho999

What has the poppy or any military event to do with football ?

The lack of choice in the UK over the last 10 years regarding the wearing of the poppy to me is denying people the freedom of choice that they say people who the poppy is supposed to commemorate, fought for.

It has just become a jingoistic event from what I can see.

TheCitizen

Throw them out. The only way they might stop acting like spoiled brats. Brexit means Brexit as that insufferable Tory boot Teresa May puts it.

razorblunt

Lol at the MP who ratted us out to FIFA , what an absolute shítstain of a man.

Fr Tod Umptious

razorblunt wrote: »

Lol at the MP who ratted us out to FIFA , what an absolute shítstain of a man.

But he makes a valid point.

If FIFA are not allowing a poppy because you are not allowed to have commercial, political or religious messages, then why did they allow the 1916 ones ?

The_Kew_Tour

Let them wear it of it makes them happy

The ****storm a poppy creates is just crazy.

TheCitizen

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But he makes a valid point.

If FIFA are not allowing a poppy because you are not allowed to have commercial, political or religious messages, then why did they allow the 1916 ones ?

If they told us we weren't allowed to wear the 1916 jersey we wouldn't have made a fuss about it or kicked up a hissy fit in our national parliament.

TheCitizen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Let them wear it of it makes them happy

The ****storm a poppy creates is just crazy.

Why should they be allowed to disregard the rules? The English and Scottish should have to abide by the rulings same as everyone else, what makes them so special? There's nothing special about, like a spoiled brat they need to learn how to behave themselves.

murpho999

TheCitizen wrote: »

If they told us we weren't allowed to wear the 1916 jersey we wouldn't have made a fuss about it or kicked up a hissy fit in our national parliament.

Also, don't forget that that friendly was not a FIFA match, so fell outside of their rules.

duffman13

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

They wouldn't wear the poppy unless the world cup was moved to November (armistice day 12th November.
I think the poppy is a politically divisive symbol and while I don't care if they wear it, I can see this being offensive to some.

That's why I said in 2022, the world cup in Qatar will take place in winter. Can't remember the exact dates in November but it could be an issue in future. Agree with you though it's hugely divisive

P_1

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But he makes a valid point.

If FIFA are not allowing a poppy because you are not allowed to have commercial, political or religious messages, then why did they allow the 1916 ones ?

I'd have thought the 1916 badge was more a historical rather than political message though

greendom

P_1 wrote: »

I'd have thought the 1916 badge was more a historical rather than political message though

Poppy wearers would say exactly the same thing. It's an act of remembrance.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But he makes a valid point.

If FIFA are not allowing a poppy because you are not allowed to have commercial, political or religious messages, then why did they allow the 1916 ones ?

In relation to the 1916 one I don't think they allowed it, so much as no one cared enough to make an issue. Plus it was a friendly.

But in this, clearly it has been flagged to them, they have said it's not allowed, so to go ahead would mean they have no "jaysis, we didn't think" excuse. It's very much an issue now.

RobbieTheRobber

greendom wrote: »

Poppy wearers would say exactly the same thing. It's an act of remembrance.

That is a charitable fund that supports ex british armed forces members.

greendom

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

That is a charitable fund that supports ex british armed forces members.

A charitable act of remembrance then

citytillidie

duffman13 wrote: »

I seen an article yesterday (UK paper) raising it as double standards that we commemorated the 100 year anniversary of the rising in a friendly.

In some ways I think it's a ridiculous rule, in other ways the poppy can be quite divisive, imagine England meeting Iraq or Ireland in the 2022 world cup and wearing the popppy. Might not bother some but it'll bother others!

Were Ireland not stopped from having an Easter Lilly on their tops so it was just 1916 / 2016 dates on it

CSF

I don't think they should be allowed break the rules. Whatever the designated punishment is should be bestowed on them if they break them. Is the punishment clearly specified? Nothing worse than rules with no mechanism to apply them.

secman

Maybe we didn't seek permission as forgiveness is sometimes easier to seek

The_Kew_Tour

TheCitizen wrote: »

Why should they be allowed to disregard the rules? The English and Scottish should have to abide by the rulings same as everyone else, what makes them so special? There's nothing special about, like a spoiled brat they need to learn how to behave themselves.

Well Ireland did it........

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well Ireland did it........

Again, in a friendly, and not really defying an express ban.

I mean, England itself has done it lots of times, and was never sanctioned afaik. They don't need to look to us at all. But this is different, now they have been told in advance of a fixture that they can't do it.

The_Kew_Tour

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Again, in a friendly, and not really defying an express ban.

I mean, England itself has done it lots of times, and was never sanctioned afaik. They don't need to look to us at all. But this is different, now they have been told in advance of a fixture that they can't do it.

What does it matter if it was a "Friendly"?

None really

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What does it matter if it was a "Friendly"?

None really

You don't get points for a friendly and it's not part of a competition, so points deductions aren't really on the table to begin with...

The_Kew_Tour

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don't get points for a friendly and it's not part of a competition, so points deductions aren't really on the table...

Why do you get points for wearing a poppy?

If that's the case I'll stick them onto shirts before Austria game myself.;)

SM01

Anyone seeing else seeing the advert for the enamel poppy appearing between posts?!

(I'm in the Uk)

Agent Smith

SM01 wrote: »

Anyone seeing else seeing the advert for the enamel poppy appearing between posts?!

(I'm in the Uk)

Ads are based on location.

godtabh

Looks like the English told on us again

https://twitter.com/breakingnewsie/status/794165898630283264

alchemist33

I don't think it really matters a damn and nobody should be offended if they wear armbands with poppies, but the lack of understanding in the UK -- that others may see it as political -- would be really funny if wasn't so endemic. I suspect that if they were playing Argentina and the opposition had a little mention of the Malvinas on their jerseys, the British media and politicians might see things a little differently.

Father Hernandez

Boot them both out of qualification if they wear them!!!!
















:P

AgileMyth

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What does it matter if it was a "Friendly"?

None really

Its a FIFA rule. Fifa don't govern friendlys. They do govern the qualifiers which is what England and Scotland are playing.

So yes it matter a lot.

Mr.Nice Guy

I read that England played a game in the 80s on the official remembrance day and there were no poppies worn, and no outcry either. England also played Scotland near to the date in November of 1999, and again there was no outcry.

This hysteria over poppies seems to have started in 2010 which, wouldn't you know it, was also coincidentally the time the Tories got back into power and the UK lurched to the right. This is now a jingoistic orgy perpetuated every year by the usual tabloid rags in which they shame and bully anyone who doesn't wear one as being unpatriotic. They have completely stripped the symbol of any dignity it may have had and it's getting way too out of hand every year.

The hypocrisy of it is staggering as well. 'Lest we forget', 'what a tragedy it was', these are the same politicians that recently committed to spending billions on a Trident nuclear weapon, and these are the same tabloid rags that hammered Corbyn because he said he didn't think he could ever see himself sanctioning the use of a nuke on innocent civilians. Wow, what a real bastard, eh? The UK is one of the biggest arms sellers in the world. Lest we forget.

As regards what should be done if they stick two fingers up to the ban, I think points deductions should be considered. They aren't bothered about fines so if you are going to set an example, that's the only way to do it and ensure this folly doesn't set a precedent elsewhere. Imagine the Balkan countries deciding to remember victims of conflicts on their jerseys. That would end well. This whole hysteria has to be confronted and challenged.

Ragnar Lothbrok

FIFA does have control over friendlies. The rule regarding political, religious, personal adornments on jerseys and clothing under jerseys etc, applies to almost all games, regardless of whether they are competitive fixtures or not (there are a few examples of games that aren't recognised as full internationals that wouldn't be covered by FIFA rules, but these are few and far between).

Ireland broke these rules, but no one really cared. I'd guess that the FAI didn't even ask FIFA for permission to embellish the jerseys with the 1916-2016 logo. The English, Scottish and Welsh FAs have specifically asked FIFA for permission and been told that they can't have the poppy on their jerseys as it's against the rules. So now they're having a hissy-fit.

The FIFA rule forbidding the addition of political/religious logos makes perfect sense when you consider the potential for offense and even violence that these could cause.

I actually hope that England choose to break the rule and are punished in some way. They are not above the laws of the game, but seem to think they are (although it's probably a case of the politicians and media whipping up a nationalistic storm, rather than any deep desire of the FA to force the issue).

greendom

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

FIFA does have control over friendlies. The rule regarding political, religious, personal adornments on jerseys and clothing under jerseys etc, applies to almost all games, regardless of whether they are competitive fixtures or not (there are a few examples of games that aren't recognised as full internationals that wouldn't be covered by FIFA rules, but these are few and far between).

Ireland broke these rules, but no one really cared. I'd guess that the FAI didn't even ask FIFA for permission to embellish the jerseys with the 1916-2016 logo. The English, Scottish and Welsh FAs have specifically asked FIFA for permission and been told that they can't have the poppy on their jerseys as it's against the rules. So now they're having a hissy-fit.

The FIFA rule forbidding the addition of political/religious logos makes perfect sense when you consider the potential for offense and even violence that these could cause.

I actually hope that England choose to break the rule and are punished in some way. They are not above the laws of the game, but seem to think they are (although it's probably a case of the politicians and media whipping up a nationalistic storm, rather than any deep desire of the FA to force the issue).

They are prepared to face sanction and are quite happy to. Great pr for the FA. They must be delighted to be regarded with anything other than suspicion by English supporters and a fine or small points deduction will suit them just fine. Especially when it makes out FIFA to be the bad guys.

Ragnar Lothbrok

greendom wrote: »

They are prepared to face sanction and are quite happy to. Great pr for the FA. They must be delighted to be regarded with anything other than suspicion by English supporters and a fine or small points deduction will suit them just fine. Especially when it makes out FIFA to be the bad guys.

Maybe if FIFA have the nerve to severely punish the FAs, they would change their tune though. If the FAs intend to blatantly and deliberately defy FIFA then FIFA should warn them that they will be thrown out of the competition.

It's not so much the fact that wearing a poppy deserves expulsion from the competition, but the fact that FAs would be telling FIFA that they won't be bound by FIFA rules. It would be a very dangerous precedent to set.

Never thought I'd be defending FIFA

greendom

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Maybe if FIFA have the nerve to severely punish the FAs, they would change their tune though. If the FAs intend to blatantly and deliberately defy FIFA then FIFA should warn them that they will be thrown out of the competition.

It's not so much the fact that wearing a poppy deserves expulsion from the competition, but the fact that FAs would be telling FIFA that they won't be bound by FIFA rules. It would be a very dangerous precedent to set.

Never thought I'd be defending FIFA

I suppose the punishment would need to be in line with former punishments handed out to national FAs for similar acts.

keeponhurling

Have Northern Ireland said anything yet ?
Can't see them letting the Scots or Welsh outdo them in a who's more British contest

Ragnar Lothbrok

greendom wrote: »

I suppose the punishment would need to be in line with former punishments handed out to national FAs for similar acts.

I don't know if action has ever been taken regarding the addition of political symbols to team kits (I'm not even sure if this situation has arisen before), but there's plenty of examples of nations being expelled from competitions for defying FIFA rules.

One of the main problems with this whole issue is that FIFA regulations don't specify the punishment for the wearing of a political symbol.

secman

So the FA are setting a fine example to clubs and players under their jurisdiction, some rules can be flouted and a wrap on the knuckle will suffice.

The_Kew_Tour

AgileMyth wrote: »

Its a FIFA rule. Fifa don't govern friendlys. They do govern the qualifiers which is what England and Scotland are playing.

So yes it matter a lot.

So why are they intervening so? Or even thinking about It?

It should be no Brainer so if that's the case

davycc

duffman13 wrote: »

I seen an article yesterday (UK paper) raising it as double standards that we commemorated the 100 year anniversary of the rising in a friendly.

In some ways I think it's a ridiculous rule, in other ways the poppy can be quite divisive, imagine England meeting Iraq or Ireland in the 2022 world cup and wearing the popppy. Might not bother some but it'll bother others!

Irelands jerseys just had 1916-2016 embroidered on them on our 100 year anniversary , we don't understand Easter Lillys on our shirts which would be a political statement . No double standards on our behalf to be fair .

Fr Tod Umptious

P_1 wrote: »

I'd have thought the 1916 badge was more a historical rather than political message though

One mans history is another mans politics.

keeponhurling

The British look a bit silly here.

If the no politics/military rule is good enough for the rest of the world, why not them?
It is only during a football match, they can wear poppies and have commemorations for the other 22 hours in the day.

If FIFA open the door for military tributes or commemorations during football matches, it's going to cause them more hassle in the long run.
Can the Russians, Chinese, Americans etc. also now commemorate their military fallen during international football games?

Anyways, I hope they take a hard line here to members willingly not playing by the rules

Cantona's Collars

ROI being charged by FIFA over the 1916 symbol on the jerseys in April.

SantryRed

Can't believe they ratted us out :pac:

flazio

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But he makes a valid point.

If FIFA are not allowing a poppy because you are not allowed to have commercial, political or religious messages, then why did they allow the 1916 ones ?

Yeah, about that....
Fifa opens disciplinary proceedings over the Republic of Ireland's use of a logo to commemorate the centenary of the Easter Rising - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37872020?ns_campaign=sport_app_alert

Lackey

SantryRed wrote: »

Can't believe they ratted us out :pac:

Snitches get stitches

NIMAN

Anyone else fed up to the back teeth of this annual nonsense?

They are so uptight about the Poppy now, even Sesame Street characters have to wear them now ffs.