If England and Scotland defy the poppy ban...

Dirty Dingus McGee

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone else fed up to the back teeth of this annual nonsense?

They are so uptight about the Poppy now, even Sesame Street characters have to wear them now ffs.

I though the cookie monster looked very dignified and respectful.It was a beautiful tribute by him.

fyfe79

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone else fed up to the back teeth of this annual nonsense?

They are so uptight about the Poppy now, even Sesame Street characters have to wear them now ffs.

You'd swear the UK were only ever involved in WWII, as that's all that's mentioned when they're discussing the poppy. The BBC did a piece this morning on a 101 year old veteran out selling them. Jesus, would you have the heart to tell him to get lost!? There's never any mention of India, Ireland etc. The poppy represents ALL British wars so that's why people have a problem with it. You can't just make it about WWII and "didn't we sort out Hitler, show some respect".

fyfe79

fyfe79 wrote: »

You'd swear the UK were only ever involved in WWII, as that's all that's mentioned when they're discussing the poppy...

Um...I'd associate it far more with WWI, Flanders Fields etc.

fyfe79

Deleted User wrote: »

Um...I'd associate it far more with WWI, Flanders Fields etc.

Fair enough, but what was going on in Ireland under their jurisdiction at the same time? Not that I'm bothered by symbolism such as the poppy, but I find it a little disengenious from UK folk, and the FA's, that they're surprised when they encounter opposition to the poppy.

Btw, I think the FAI were wrong to put the 1916 message on the shirt too. One rule for all. Although, I wouldn't seeing what kind of slogan North Korea would come up with if they thought FIFA would turn a blind eye.

Knex*

I never really get the outcry about the poppy, truth be told. Its a remembrance day.

Its not a celebration of victory, or a glorification of war and conquering, but a time of reflection for the lives lost.

Granted, its from a British Army perspective, but the whole thing came about following WWI and ridiculous loss of life that stemmed from that. I don't really see it as a major political move, or some sort of justification or dick swinging contest with regards to their invasion of Ireland, the Falklands War, or anything else along those lines, to be honest.

Knex*

davycc wrote: »

Irelands jerseys just had 1916-2016 embroidered on them on our 100 year anniversary , we don't understand Easter Lillys on our shirts which would be a political statement . No double standards on our behalf to be fair .

Phrasing it that way doesn't make it any less of a political statement.

Knex.

Knex. wrote: »

I never really get the outcry about the poppy, truth be told. Its a remembrance day.

Its not a celebration of victory, or a glorification of war and conquering, but a time of reflection for the lives lost.

I agree about the poppy itself. In focussing on WWI too, it's not overtly political in a whole stopping fascism thing either, for me it represents the huge numbers from many countries that went into the meat grinder of northern France and Belgium and the horror of war.

But on the other hand, rules are rules, FIFA has decided it is political, and if they proceed I think they should face sanction. And not sure a fine is enough, it would be kinda saying "yeah...but our political symbols are above your rules"

fyfe79

Sport is one of the last bastion's of life that tries to keep politics out of the frame, thankfully. I think allowing symbolism such as the poppy, or indeed the lily, will unlock a gate that we don't want opened.

Captain Havoc

fyfe79 wrote: »

Sport is one of the last bastion's of life that tries to keep politics out of the frame, thankfully. I think allowing symbolism such as the poppy, or indeed the lily, will unlock a gate that we don't want opened.

Sport is a Bastion of politics

bobbysands81

I despise what the poppy stands for but I couldn't care less if individuals wear it or if England and Scotland wear it in a match. If they want to then let them but will they think the same when somebody wants to wear a political symbol that they don't like?

The real debate surrounding the poppy should be why does an underfunded charity have to provide services to men and women who have risked their lives "for their country" yet their country and Government has turned their back on them.

Let the poppy fascists have their way but if they win this they'll be whinging about other political symbols in the future.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Knex. wrote: »

I never really get the outcry about the poppy, truth be told. Its a remembrance day.

Its not a celebration of victory, or a glorification of war and conquering, but a time of reflection for the lives lost.

Granted, its from a British Army perspective, but the whole thing came about following WWI and ridiculous loss of life that stemmed from that. I don't really see it as a major political move, or some sort of justification or dick swinging contest with regards to their invasion of Ireland, the Falklands War, or anything else along those lines, to be honest.

My problem with the poppy isn't with what it supposedly commemorates. It's that all the money raised goes to British soldiers who fought in recent wars, including Ireland.

brevity

David Squires on point...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/picture/2016/nov/08/david-squires-football-poppy-fury-season

bobbysands81

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

My problem with the poppy isn't with what it supposedly commemorates. It's that all the money raised goes to British soldiers who fought in recent wars, including Ireland.

It's commemorating people fighting in illegal wars and killing people in my country, I have an issue with wanting to commemorate that from my point of view but can understand why some British people want to commemorate these people.

The likes of Fine Gael's Neale Redmond wears one but does he really understand who and what he's commemorating? I don't think so.

If the poppy was merely for those who died in WW1 and WW2 would many people have issues with it? I doubt I would.

Beefy78

England and Scotland voted for the rule that England and Scotland now want to break. As an English person who has worn a poppy many, many times over the last three decades I'm kinda sick of it. If the players want to wear a poppy in the pre and post match celebrations fine, if they want a dignified minute's silence or lay a wreath before the anthem or something fine.

Stitching a poppy into the two kits and forcing people to participate annoys me. In part because I then have to read about it on here and get told again about how people in England are forced to wear poppies (they're not) and how it glorifies war (it doesn't).

Taking on Fifa sets a horrible precedent, especially considering that we just sacked a manager for acknowledging that there were ways to not abide by other Fifa rules.

Beefy78

And I've backed Scotland at 8/1. For ****s sake.

8-10

Wales are wearing plain black armbands as they can't add the poppy emblem. Out of interest since they wear red jerseys could they "cut-out" a poppy shaped stencil in the black armband so that it looked like a poppy without infringing of fifa's rule not to wear an emblem?

Billy86

Beefy78 wrote: »

And I've backed Scotland at 8/1. For ****s sake.

8/1? With Southgate as manager? Far odds to be sure, but it's hardly much of an 'away' game given the location, Southgate is manager, the Scots who will be far more up for it than the English most likely... and, and well... Southgate is manager.

8-10

8-10 wrote: »

Wales are wearing plain black armbands as they can't add the poppy emblem. Out of interest since they wear red jerseys could they "cut-out" a poppy shaped stencil in the black armband so that it looked like a poppy without infringing of fifa's rule not to wear an emblem?

Doubt it, it's still an image, albeit one made by a stencil...

Mint Sauce

Well both teams are wearing the Poppy. Does that mean FIFA are going to drop their stupid action against Ireland over their 1916 memorial if no action taken here.

ArnoldJRimmer

The poppy is probably the least offensive thing about Scotland's jersey. My eyes!

Royale with Cheese

All this remembrance day stuff is just making me want to play battlefield 1.

Mint Sauce

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

The poppy is probably the least offensive thing about Scotland's jersey. My eyes!

Yeah, apparently the white stripe on their regular Blue Jersey clashes with the England Jersey.

Beefy78

Beefy78 wrote: »

And I've backed Scotland at 8/1. For ****s sake.

Should have been 80/1. Scotland are beyond terrible.

Mr.Nice Guy

This was spotted in a bar in Torquay:

https://twitter.com/ElliottCantor/status/797500342372040705

gormdubhgorm

keeponhurling wrote: »

Have Northern Ireland said anything yet ?
Can't see them letting the Scots or Welsh outdo them in a who's more British contest

I would have a good guess and say it was them who mentioned the 1916-2016 emblem....:D

gormdubhgorm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It's commemorating people fighting in illegal wars and killing people in my country, I have an issue with wanting to commemorate that from my point of view but can understand why some British people want to commemorate these people.

The likes of Fine Gael's Neale Redmhomorating? I don't think so.

If the poppy was merely for those who died in WW1 and WW2 would many people have issues with it? I doubt I would.

That is the thing they expanded it to commemorating all British soldiers and all British wars. Which is the reason James McClean refused to wear it.

He was vilified by the British media for it.

But when players refuse/uncomfortable to wear a loan company logos for religious reasons like Papa Cisse, it is more accepted.

eyerer

They expanded it to include all British wars, but if you don't like it.. it's like you have no respect for WWI and WWII.
Politics does my head in lol.

Dirty Dingus McGee

"Honouring those who made the ultimate sacrifice, who alllowed us the freedom to be playing this game today"

That's pretty much what Martin Tyler said in his commentary at the start of the England Scotland match.

What a load of bull****e, it's not as if they didn't play football in Germany and automatically the sport would have never been played again if somehow they won either of the 2 world wars.

TheCitizen

They're still wearing poppies on English TV today. What a ridiculous ott spectacle that was on Friday before the game between England and Scotland. They're trying way too hard with all that jingoistic nonsense. Poppyfest has become a cringefest.

theoneeyedman

TheCitizen wrote: »

They're still wearing poppies on English TV today. What a ridiculous ott spectacle that was on Friday before the game between England and Scotland. They're trying way too hard with all that jingoistic nonsense. Poppyfest has become a cringefest.

Today is actually remembrance Sunday in Britain, so I suppose today of all days is the day to wear it if that's you're thing. It's the last 3 weeks of compulsion that gets on my tits.

it's embarrassing to be honest, but that's one of the ways they brainwash young lads to be 'heros' and bravely go to the likes of Afghanistan to fight for Blighty.

Danny Mills speaks sense!

He says the FA are picking the wrong fight and the money spent fighting the matter and paying any fine would have been better spent by the FA making a donation to the British Legion.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37941626

Beefy78

TheCitizen wrote: »

They're still wearing poppies on English TV today. What a ridiculous ott spectacle that was on Friday before the game between England and Scotland. They're trying way too hard with all that jingoistic nonsense. Poppyfest has become a cringefest.

Today is Remembrance Sunday.

TheCitizen

Beefy78 wrote: »

Today is Remembrance Sunday.

Why have they been wearing poppies for a month?

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Why have they been wearing poppies for a month?

Practising for today...

bobbysands81

eyerer wrote: »

They expanded it to include all British wars, but if you don't like it.. it's like you have no respect for WWI and WWII.
Politics does my head in lol.

If the British Government cared so much for their ex-servicemen and women then they wouldn't have to resort to raising money for required support services by selling poppies in the first place.

Beefy78

TheCitizen wrote: »

Why have they been wearing poppies for a month?

Why do you care? You're choosing to watch UK TV. No one is making you do so.

jaykay74

I'd be more interested in why it goes on for a month than deflection

citytillidie

jaykay74 wrote: »

I'd be more interested in why it goes on for a month than deflection

Because if they don't the poppy fascist will complain that they are not wearing a poppy

TheCitizen

Beefy78 wrote: »

Why do you care? You're choosing to watch UK TV. No one is making you do so.

I will comment on it. Is that ok with you?

bobbysands81

Beefy78 wrote: »

Why do you care? You're choosing to watch UK TV. No one is making you do so.

So you can only watch TV if you agree with everything being said and done on it?

godtabh

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So you can only watch TV if you agree with everything being said and done on it?

Probably not but dont get offended by things that the TV stations show particularly those things that are inevitable i.e poppies in November.

greendom

So when can we expect to hear what punishment is to be given to the Scottish and English FAs for defying FIFA ?

Fratton Fred

greendom wrote: »

So when can we expect to hear what punishment is to be given to the Scottish and English FAs for defying FIFA ?

have they defied FIFA?

FIFA need to decide yet if an offence has actually taken place. This will be on the basis of the report from their match official, which will then be reviewed by the disciplinary committee.

citytillidie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

have they defied FIFA?

FIFA need to decide yet if an offence has actually taken place. This will be on the basis of the report from their match official, which will then be reviewed by the disciplinary committee.

Not really if Ireland are being looked at after the English touted on them as FIFA have just shown that it can do what it wants without the need for a refs report

Fratton Fred

citytillidie wrote: »

Not really if Ireland are being looked at after the English touted on them as FIFA have just shown that it can do what it wants without the need for a refs report

is there a tar and feathering on the cards?

greendom

Fratton Fred wrote: »

have they defied FIFA?

FIFA need to decide yet if an offence has actually taken place. This will be on the basis of the report from their match official, which will then be reviewed by the disciplinary committee.

wondering what the point of this thread is then. I thought they were told not to wear poppies and then they wore poppies. The Welsh and Northern Irish went along with this requirement, Scottish and English FA didn't. To my mind that constitutes defiance

Fratton Fred

greendom wrote: »

wondering what the point of this thread is then. I thought they were told not to wear poppies and then they wore poppies. The Welsh and Northern Irish went along with this requirement, Scottish and English FA didn't. To my mind that constitutes defiance

They weren't told not to wear them, FIFA just stated they wouldn't make any exceptions.

Korat

There's something sinister about the poppy on the armband and it's more noticeable when being worn by someone who's clearly wearing it for fear of being seen not wearing it.

NIMAN

I spent a couple of days in Belfast at the weekend, and decided to have a look around at just how prevalent the wearing of the poppy is, considering how much it's shoved down people's throats and how some people get terrible abuse for making the decision not to wear one.

I would say poppy wearing in Belfast for those 2 days was maybe 2 or 3% of people I passed. I was out on the Friday night socialising, and spent most of Saturday in the main shopping streets and centres, so it's a good straw poll.

It appears the vast majority of the population don't bother themselves too much about them.

bobbysands81

godtabh wrote: »

Probably not but dont get offended by things that the TV stations show particularly those things that are inevitable i.e poppies in November.

In the context of what was being said in the quoted post that I was referring to your post doesn't really make sense.

For the record I'd defend the right of anyone to wear a poppy.