If a new team were to join the League of Ireland, who should it be?

topmanamillion

Even putting aside UEFA clearance NIFL clubs have no interest in an All Ireland league.

When the setanta cup was going they spent the entire time moaning about the travel and the different seasons.
The fact they are happy to play Scottish 3rd and 4th tier sides in a challenge cup instead of playing in a cup to be crowned all Ireland champions says it all.

From talking to some NIFL fans it's also an entirely alien concept to travel from Sligo to Cork for a match. The Irish league is heavily Belfast centered so they just can't get their head around doing a 3 or 4 hour journey to play a match.

That's before ever you start talking about sectarianism or any of the other crap that bringing teams out of these places would bring.

I'd also disagree that the likes of Newry City would automatically bring 1000s of fans to the league. They have a team now and it's an intermediate side in the third tier of the Irish league.

Fr Tod Umptious

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I think the bookies 'Sean Graham' still 'own' Belfast Celtic.

I'm surprised there's never been an attempt to bring thrm back.

If ever there was a 'franchise' based league playing in an Atlantic League or similar then they'd start off with incredible support with that name.

If an "Atlantic league" type setup was to come about then I doubt there would be room for more than one team from NI and that one team would be Linfield.

I think the answer to the OPs question is clear, there is no room for another team.in the league.

Kilkenny, Kildare, Fungal, Monaghan have all come and gone in the last few years, all decent size towns and catchment areas but none lasted, will be interesting to see if Wexford does any better in the long run, but thete does not seem to be a huge market in Ireland for more domestic soccer.

Bowlardo

Sirsok wrote: »

Being from Kilkenny I would have to say here, great soccer community, even though our local league is a shambles but we seem to produce some good players, Mikey Drennan, Gavan Holohan, Gary Breen, David Mulcahy and young Eoin Wall at waterford, as well as a few lads that played with wexford youths and waterford utd in the years gone.

We have a good ground in Buckley park, but its just empty.

Evergreen and freebooters do all right in the leinster juniors and it might put a stop to those clubs stockpiling the best players from other clubs, our premier division has 7 teams and 4 of them are made up of evergreen and freebooters A and B teams.

The ladies team in the national league arw in their second year as a young team and regulary draw good crowds.

While Buckley Park is a wonderful pitch and ground I always felt it was too far outside the city. Ideally we need a ground that is in our around the town so people good make a night of it have a few pints and walk over to the game. I think we would be a fairly popular away game for most clubs given that we are just off the motor way and not too far from Dublin or cork.

I think If the pitch was in town and and games were on a friday/Saturday night you could get a decent crowd at it. Would also help massively if there was local lads on the team.

Captain Havoc

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I'd like to see an already established team from Kilkenny enter, like Evergreen. They'd have fans to start, they're already producing players at underage (Seani Maguire, Gavan Holohan, Dave Mulcahy, Mikey Drennan, Jimmy Kehohane and yours truly). They have facilities. I think a brand new club from scratch would be hard. I also know Evergreen have zero intention of entering the LoI.

Sirsok wrote: »

Being from Kilkenny I would have to say here, great soccer community, even though our local league is a shambles but we seem to produce some good players, Mikey Drennan, Gavan Holohan, Gary Breen, David Mulcahy and young Eoin Wall at waterford, as well as a few lads that played with wexford youths and waterford utd in the years gone.

We have a good ground in Buckley park, but its just empty.

Evergreen and freebooters do all right in the leinster juniors and it might put a stop to those clubs stockpiling the best players from other clubs, our premier division has 7 teams and 4 of them are made up of evergreen and freebooters A and B teams.

The ladies team in the national league arw in their second year as a young team and regulary draw good crowds.

wadacrack wrote: »

I think a team in the Tullamore, Portlaoise, Carlow town, Kilkenny area would be a good asset. 2 Intermediate sides in Tullamore and Portlaoise and decent Junior sides in Carlow and Kilkenny. Kilkenny would probably be the best bet tho with Buckley Park and a history of LOI football.

Just on the Kilkenny thing, they have a lovely little ground a few miles out the Callan Road near Tinnypark, but in a way is this perhaps a deterrent in terms of getting local children interested and involved in following the team?

EDIT: Whatever became of Michael Reddy in the end?

civis_liberalis

osarusan wrote: »

€150,000 - €200,000 per year

This is something I've seen detailed breakdowns of and looked over a lot. Even if you take out contingencies for different things, some of which you are 100% going to dip into, IMO it can't be done for under €200k. I'd put he range at €225k - €250k

overshoot

civis_liberalis wrote: »

This is something I've seen detailed breakdowns of and looked over a lot. Even if you take out contingencies for different things, some of which you are 100% going to dip into, IMO it can't be done for under €200k. I'd put he range at €225k - €250k

Harps was run on €240k in 2015. That includes the senior, u19 & u17s teams but not the academy which is separate. Pretty sure it was just expenses to players, some may have been on a small wage.With the u15 league now added there's another expense. So your probably right enough.
Travel wise we did over 10,000km. Despite more away games in the premier we only covered c7,000 this year.

osarusan

€200,000 then, as a minimum.

500 people per game @ €12 each is €6,000 per game, times 14 home games is €84,000 in total revenue from just attendance.

Even doubling the attendances to 1,000, and your gross revenue from attendance (which is very different from net) is still nowhere near costs.

Of course there is sponsorship, and initially that might be a decent amount because of the novelty factor, but without success that will drop until it finds a suitable amount.

We have all seen clubs that plugged away for a few years but finally quit. It's a real struggle just to stay alive.

Captain Havoc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just on the Kilkenny thing, they have a lovely little ground a few miles out the Callan Road near Tinnypark, but in a way is this perhaps a deterrent in terms of getting local children interested and involved in following the team?

EDIT: Whatever became of Michael Reddy in the end?

He had a decent but injured plagued career in the championship and league 1. I think he's living in Manchester, he studied over there.

Richard Hillman

I would like to see an Apolitical Belfast team. I reckon a cross community team would have huge support

Iused2likebusts

topmanamillion wrote: »

Even putting aside UEFA clearance NIFL clubs have no interest in an All Ireland league.

When the setanta cup was going they spent the entire time moaning about the travel and the different seasons.
The fact they are happy to play Scottish 3rd and 4th tier sides in a challenge cup instead of playing in a cup to be crowned all Ireland champions says it all.

From talking to some NIFL fans it's also an entirely alien concept to travel from Sligo to Cork for a match. The Irish league is heavily Belfast centered so they just can't get their head around doing a 3 or 4 hour journey to play a match.

That's before ever you start talking about sectarianism or any of the other crap that bringing teams out of these places would bring.

I'd also disagree that the likes of Newry City would automatically bring 1000s of fans to the league. They have a team now and it's an intermediate side in the third tier of the Irish league.

Newry had issues with their former owner that meant the club needed to be reformed that's why they are down the leagues. I think they would bring reasonable crowds to the league and would be able to survive in the loi. I think they would be a better option than monaghon, Kildare county etc.

topmanamillion

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Newry had issues with their former owner that meant the club needed to be reformed that's why they are down the leagues. I think they would bring reasonable crowds to the league and would be able to survive in the loi. I think they would be a better option than monaghon, Kildare county etc.

Why though?
They might'nt fair any better than Waterford or Athlone. And please don't mention the word potential!

Newry have been reformed a longtime at this stage. Clubs like Cork and Galway have reformed and bounced back in that time. Yet Newry are still an intermediate side? It just doesn't add up.

dundalkfc10

topmanamillion wrote: »

Why though?
They might'nt fair any better than Waterford or Athlone. And please don't mention the word potential!

Newry have been reformed a longtime at this stage. Clubs like Cork and Galway have reformed and bounced back in that time. Yet Newry are still an intermediate side? It just doesn't add up.

They had to start in lower leagues and not one league away from the Prem Division like Galway n Cork.

They have been promoted last 2 seasons

Iused2likebusts

topmanamillion wrote: »

Why though?
They might'nt fair any better than Waterford or Athlone. And please don't mention the word potential!

Newry have been reformed a longtime at this stage. Clubs like Cork and Galway have reformed and bounced back in that time. Yet Newry are still an intermediate side? It just doesn't add up.

Only reformed 3 or 4 years and as mentioned below had to start down the leagues. They regularly competed in the top league up north and have a big enough catchment area and a bit of tradition. I'm not saying they would be a huge addition but would be better than previously failed clubs.

pablomakaveli

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I would like to see an Apolitical Belfast team. I reckon a cross community team would have huge support

While its a nice thought I couldnt ever see a team playing in the LOI having much support from the Unionist community.

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Newry had issues with their former owner that meant the club needed to be reformed that's why they are down the leagues. I think they would bring reasonable crowds to the league and would be able to survive in the loi. I think they would be a better option than monaghon, Kildare county etc.

I honestly think Newry would be the most viable team in Northern Ireland to join if they had stuff in order. Predominantly nationalist area right on the border so within reasonable distance of a good few of the LOI teams. I'd still prefer to see Monaghan,Kildare etc in before though since its more realistic.

Omackeral

A pie in the sky article from last year.

From SunSport
AN Isle of Man XI is bidding to join the League of Ireland.

SunSport has learned that the Isle of Man Football Association is in advanced talks with the FAI about a representative team entering the First Division in the 2017 season.

The Isle of Man FA is looking to become a Uefa member in time to compete in the Euro 2020 qualifiers but wants to ensure its national team is as well-prepared as possible.

With that in mind, the island’s soccer chiefs are looking to take a leaf out of the IRFU’s book and get their best players on centralised contracts.
They want the national team to be established on a club-like basis to minimise the chance of ritual humiliations against bigger ­countries.

But, rather than take part in the Isle of Man’s own league which would ensure the title race was a procession, they want the side to take part in a more competitive league.

And there have been high-level negotiations with the FAI about joining the League of Ireland for the season after next.
An FAI spokesman said: “We are already prepared to speak with interested parties.”

The move would have to get Uefa approval but the precedent is there with Derry City, based in Northern Ireland, a member of the league for the past 30 years.
Isle of Man FA PRO Lia Fols told SunSport: “The situation is less complicated than Derry because this has been initiated by ourselves rather than a club in our jurisdiction.

“We’re pretty hopeful that we can get the green light. We think it would be a real help if and when we realise our ambition to be accepted as a member of Uefa and take part in the European Championships qualification process.

“There’s no name for the club yet although somebody has joked that we should call it Manx-tester United!”

The move is being fully backed by the Isle of Man government and bankrolled by local businessman Joe Kerr, who has lodged a planning application to build a 6,000-seater stadium in the capital Douglas.

But SunSport columnist Dermot Keely branded the plans a joke and said: “The First Division is a laughing stock as it is, this would make it worse. If we’ve a team from the Isle of Man, does that mean we’ll have a three-legged cup final?”

chopperbyrne

Not a hope.

Who's going to foot the bill for the travelling to away fixtures.

Jayop

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Not a hope.

Who's going to foot the bill for the travelling to away fixtures.

The same people who foot the bill for travelling fans now, the fans themselves. If it's too expensive to travel there then they simply won't go in any numbers. That said, if it was to happen the novelty of it could see a fair few going for at least their first game there.

Anyway, back to this I'd say Belfast or Castlebar would be the two places that could enter a team.

dundalkfc10

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Not a hope.

Who's going to foot the bill for the travelling to away fixtures.

Well for us in Dundalk, Belfast or any other side up north would be a far handier journey for us. Derry, Finn Harps, Drogheda be the same

Dempsey

Clonmel Town or St. Michaels should have bigger aspirations than the TSDL but are happy being big fish in a small pond.

johnnyryan89

Dempsey wrote: »

Clonmel Town or St. Michaels should have bigger aspirations than the TSDL but are happy being big fish in a small pond.

Most of the top junior teams are happy to be like that. In a way you wouldn't blame them unless the FAI sort out the league's and make it attractive for teams to progress into senior ranks.

Adbrowne

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Most of the top junior teams are happy to be like that. In a way you wouldn't blame them unless the FAI sort out the league's and make it attractive for teams to progress into senior ranks.

What exactly do you mean by FAI sort out the leagues?

johnnyryan89

Adbrowne wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by FAI sort out the leagues?

Make it a proper pyramid structure that allows teams to progress, going from Regional Senoir league's to First Division and Premier Division or just change up the first division to have it resemble the way the 17s and 19s are run with a northern and southern division with top two teams going into a play off.

Could sit and talk till the cows came home about changes to the league that could improve it but until the FAI make it financially viable for new teams to wanna join the league and even teams that are struggling in the first division we'll just be stuck with the same teams as usual hoping no one goes bankrupt.

Adbrowne

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Make it a proper pyramid structure that allows teams to progress, going from Regional Senoir league's to First Division and Premier Division or just change up the first division to have it resemble the way the 17s and 19s are run with a northern and southern division with top two teams going into a play off.

Could sit and talk till the cows came home about changes to the league that could improve it but until the FAI make it financially viable for new teams to wanna join the league and even teams that are struggling in the first division we'll just be stuck with the same teams as usual hoping no one goes bankrupt.

Its interesting because I feel the clubs need to work together with 2020 in mind. The Aviva debt will be gone freeing up circa 10m a year so the clubs should be putting pressure on to do a few things

- Abolish affiliation fees [18k x 20]
- Get the FAI to cover the cost of match officials [11k x 20]
- Quit this nonsense of fines for yellow/red cards, this happens a u17, u19 and senior teams and nets the FAI about 3k a week.

The FAI are using the clubs as an ATM. The clubs need to wake up and realise if they work together in some things they can force the FAIs hand. Go as far as threatening to withdraw from the FAI and seek IFA support. No league means the national team are suspended. Instead the club just refuse to co-operate with each other.

Sue Pa Key Pa

There should be natural progression in to the top 2 tiers. Throwing a junior side in to the bureaucracy, cost and discipline of LOI is a huge culture shock. Ease the transition by having rationalised leagues beneath the 1st division and let them in to EA Sports Cup. That way the clubs have time to assimilate and see if that's what they want and test their own standard

yabadabado

eagle eye wrote: »

I notice the op has Athlone Town down as both a Westmeath and Roscommon team. Longford is as close as Athlone to Roscommon Town but both sides play their football in the province of Leinster and as a result would not be supported by Roscommon people. Boyle which would be the second most populated town is nearer to Sligo than Athlone or Longford.

That's simply not true Athlone has always had a decent following from Roscommon plenty of the population of Roscommon is within 25 mins of Athlone.
Your point regarding Boyle is true but if you divide Roscommon North and South then the south of the county is very assessable to support Athlone.

topmanamillion

Adbrowne wrote: »

I

- Quit this nonsense of fines for yellow/red cards, this happens a u17, u19 and senior teams and nets the FAI about 3k a week.

The FAI are using the clubs as an ATM. The clubs need to wake up and realise if they work together in some things they can force the FAIs hand. Go as far as threatening to withdraw from the FAI and seek IFA support. No league means the national team are suspended. Instead the club just refuse to co-operate with each other.

The issue isn't that the FAI fine clubs, which is standard practice in most if not all national leagues globally, it's the lack of transperancy.
If for instance the FAI published accounts and had open AGMs I would have no issue with clubs being fined.
Fines should go directly into a fund to assist clubs with infrastructure or to compensate clubs that have games moved due to other clubs European involvement.

Seeking IFA membership is daft. It's a far inferior league to our own. For instance, I honestly can't see the village of Ballinamallard operating in the Premier Divison of the LOI yet they are an Irish PL side for the last number of years.

The LOI clubs really don't have many cards to play. They cant/won't go it alone because they did that and it ended in the entire league going bankrupt. They are in a situation now where they have to cross their fingers the FAI undergoes change, most likely when the latest scandal eventually sticks to JD.

Adbrowne

topmanamillion wrote: »

The issue isn't that the FAI fine clubs, which is standard practice in most if not all national leagues globally, it's the lack of transperancy.
If for instance the FAI published accounts and had open AGMs I would have no issue with clubs being fined.
Fines should go directly into a fund to assist clubs with infrastructure or to compensate clubs that have games moved due to other clubs European involvement.

Seeking IFA membership is daft. It's a far inferior league to our own. For instance, I honestly can't see the village of Ballinamallard operating in the Premier Divison of the LOI yet they are an Irish PL side for the last number of years.

The LOI clubs really don't have many cards to play. They cant/won't go it alone because they did that and it ended in the entire league going bankrupt. They are in a situation now where they have to cross their fingers the FAI undergoes change, most likely when the latest scandal eventually sticks to JD.

You missing the point. Threats to leave and an active enquiry to the IFA however daft is a point of leverage. The FAI could even risk losing Euro 2020 matches.

On the cards fines, it's the fact the money disappears into the FAI. It is just another cash cow.

ArmaniJeanss

Adbrowne wrote: »

The clubs need to wake up and realise if they work together in some things they can force the FAIs hand. Go as far as threatening to withdraw from the FAI and seek IFA support. No league means the national team are suspended. Instead the club just refuse to co-operate with each other.

Adbrowne wrote: »

You missing the point. Threats to leave and an active enquiry to the IFA however daft is a point of leverage. The FAI could even risk losing Euro 2020 matches.

Nice idea but doesn't actually pass the most cursory of inspections.

Even if they wanted to the IFA couldn't take the clubs in without the go-ahead of UEFA; and the fact that the FAI wouldn't agree to it would mean UEFA wouldn't either.
As for not having a national team without a national league -whilst its kind of true theres nothing which says it has to be a league with Sligo, Bohs and Cork City. If 20, 30, even 50 clubs walk out they could still cobble together enough teams and call it the national league.

Clubs havent any potential to survive if they limit themselves to some town of 10,000 or so.

This isn't the GAA where nothing goes to the players.

Any new teams would need a base of 100,000+ thus meaning they'd need to operate on a county basis.

Tralee, Castlebar, Thurles.... they'll all fail as they wont attract the whole county.
They can, and would operate out of the same towns but would need to follow the county model.

Omackeral

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Tralee, Castlebar, Thurles.... they'll all fail as they wont attract the whole county.
They can, and would operate out of the same towns but would need to follow the county model.

So say Kerry Dynamos or Kerry United rather than Tralee Dynamos? Would that work? Didn't Newbridge do similar with Kildare County. I agree it must be easier for a lad from Tobercurry to shout ''come on Sligo'' than it is for a lad from Ardee to shout for Drogheda, even though both teams represent towns they the hypothetical lads aren't from. The fact the name Sligo is in the name of the county, ditto for Galway makes it easier for outsiders. I always say the same for the likes of Shels, Bohs , Rovers too. You're not shouting for an area of Dublin so outsiders can easily get on board. It's interesting.

Jayop

Omackeral wrote: »

So say Kerry Dynamos or Kerry United rather than Tralee Dynamos? Would that work? Didn't Newbridge do similar with Kildare County. I agree it must be easier for a lad from Tobercurry to shout ''come on Sligo'' than it is for a lad from Ardee to shout for Drogheda, even though both teams represent towns they the hypothetical lads aren't from. The fact the name Sligo is in the name of the county, ditto for Galway makes it easier for outsiders. I always say the same for the likes of Shels, Bohs , Rovers too. You're not shouting for an area of Dublin so outsiders can easily get on board. It's interesting.

Don't forget about the Tubbercurry Tornado too which helps!!

dundalkfc10

Adbrowne wrote: »

You missing the point. Threats to leave and an active enquiry to the IFA however daft is a point of leverage. The FAI could even risk losing Euro 2020 matches.

On the cards fines, it's the fact the money disappears into the FAI. It is just another cash cow.

Dundalk received €60,000 of the €110,000 we were meant to get for winning the league in 2015 after fines were deducted

topmanamillion

Adbrowne wrote: »

You missing the point. Threats to leave and an active enquiry to the IFA however daft is a point of leverage. The FAI could even risk losing Euro 2020 matches.

On the cards fines, it's the fact the money disappears into the FAI. It is just another cash cow.

A threat has to have an element of reality to it and going to the IFA wouldn't have that.
The FAI would have to sanction clubs to play outside of their jurisdiction.

topmanamillion

Adbrowne wrote: »

You missing the point. Threats to leave and an active enquiry to the IFA however daft is a point of leverage. The FAI could even risk losing Euro 2020 matches.

On the cards fines, it's the fact the money disappears into the FAI. It is just another cash cow.

A threat has to have an element of reality to it and going to the IFA wouldn't have that.
The FAI would have to sanction clubs to play outside of their jurisdiction.

Adbrowne

topmanamillion wrote: »

A threat has to have an element of reality to it and going to the IFA wouldn't have that.
The FAI would have to sanction clubs to play outside of their jurisdiction.

But the clubs need to create a **** storm about the FAI.

topmanamillion

Adbrowne wrote: »

But the clubs need to create a **** storm about the FAI.

Possibly, but they are extremely limited in what they can do.
Going to outside jurisdictions isn't an option.
Governing themselves isn't an option - was tried before and the league was in a far worse state than it is now.

It's difficult to know what they can do.

dundalkfc10

topmanamillion wrote: »

Possibly, but they are extremely limited in what they can do.
Going to outside jurisdictions isn't an option.
Governing themselves isn't an option - was tried before and the league was in a far worse state than it is now.

It's difficult to know what they can do.

Re-Form the FAI? Only ever hope of that if Delaney gets caught doing something wrong (illegal)

Sue Pa Key Pa

Just throwing it out there. Dundalk will be building a large squad to fight on all fronts, as will Cork. Would they want to put a B team in the 1st division to keep them ticking over? I know Shams B was a disaster because they just played their U19 squad

Pat D. Almighty

Lets move to Leitrim Town, start a club and build a new city around it.

Pat D. Almighty

Omackeral wrote: »

So say Kerry Dynamos or Kerry United rather than Tralee Dynamos? Would that work? Didn't Newbridge do similar with Kildare County. I agree it must be easier for a lad from Tobercurry to shout ''come on Sligo'' than it is for a lad from Ardee to shout for Drogheda, even though both teams represent towns they the hypothetical lads aren't from. The fact the name Sligo is in the name of the county, ditto for Galway makes it easier for outsiders. I always say the same for the likes of Shels, Bohs , Rovers too. You're not shouting for an area of Dublin so outsiders can easily get on board. It's interesting.

2030 FAI Cup Semi-Finals:

Roscommon Rangers vs North Tipperary FC
Kerry Dynamos vs Wicklow Town FC

topmanamillion

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Just throwing it out there. Dundalk will be building a large squad to fight on all fronts, as will Cork. Would they want to put a B team in the 1st division to keep them ticking over? I know Shams B was a disaster because they just played their U19 squad

Shams was far from a disaster.
They got a glamour friendly from the FAI against Liverpool in LR which paid for the FD team.
They threw the toys out of the pram when they were told they'd have to pay affiliation fees for 2 teams if they wanted to put 2 teams in the league.

civis_liberalis

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

I know Shams B was a disaster because they just played their U19 squad

Those players got experience they would not otherwise have gotten.

Calling it a disaster is a simplistic view. By what measure was it a disaster? It was costly, but nobody was under any illusions about that from the outset. Either you're in the football game or you're not. Fielding teams if what you do.

Reserves are generally not for mature players. They should be playing first team football elsewhere. The whole point of the reserves is to serve the first team. They played a lot of u19s, because that's the oldest youth team they have. There were also restrictions on players going between the two teams, so they couldn't really use them as a proper reserve side.

IMO the A Championship should never have been scrapped. The FAI have a lot of answer for, but the clubs need saving from themselves at times.

wadacrack

Desperatly need a reserve, u23 league or A Championship. Dundalk and cork have big squads and would have very strong B sides. It would help the development of younger sides if they came up against such sides. The gap from u19 to senior is too great as we have seen with Waterford and Athlone in the first division. Younger players just not prepared.

topmanamillion

wadacrack wrote: »

Desperatly need a reserve, u23 league or A Championship. Dundalk and cork have big squads and would have very strong B sides. It would help the development of younger sides if they came up against such sides. The gap from u19 to senior is too great as we have seen with Waterford and Athlone in the first division. Younger players just not prepared.

I disagree. The likes of Cobh, Waterford and Limerick would be more than grateful to get the likes of Ogbene on loan from Cork.
Similarly Dundalk could put out these mountains of quality kids on loan to local clubs like Bray or Shelbourne or even to LSL sides.

There eventually will be some sort of grade between U19 and senior but right now I think the priority is rightly getting the U15s and U13s up and running.
I don't think there's the massive desperation for it you seem to think there is.

The problem with Athlone in particular is they jettisoned their senior pros to cut costs and then fired in kids before they were ready. They most likely have damaged these players development by putting them in the frying pan too early.
They were still eligible for U19 football and some for U17 so I don't see how a reserve leaue would have made a difference.

Sue Pa Key Pa

topmanamillion wrote: »

Shams was far from a disaster.
They got a glamour friendly from the FAI against Liverpool in LR which paid for the FD team.
They threw the toys out of the pram when they were told they'd have to pay affiliation fees for 2 teams if they wanted to put 2 teams in the league.

C'mon, they weren't competitive and it wasn't fringe players that were used, it was the kids. If you think having young players tonked on a regular basis is not a disaster, we have a different outlook on player development.

johnnyryan89

topmanamillion wrote: »

I disagree. The likes of Cobh, Waterford and Limerick would be more than grateful to get the likes of Ogbene on loan from Cork.
Similarly Dundalk could put out these mountains of quality kids on loan to local clubs like Bray or Shelbourne or even to LSL sides.

There eventually will be some sort of grade between U19 and senior but right now I think the priority is rightly getting the U15s and U13s up and running.
I don't think there's the massive desperation for it you seem to think there is.

The problem with Athlone in particular is they jettisoned their senior pros to cut costs and then fired in kids before they were ready. They most likely have damaged these players development by putting them in the frying pan too early.
They were still eligible for U19 football and some for U17 so I don't see how a reserve leaue would have made a difference.

Yeah because Limerick are gonna drop Aaron Greene or Stephen Kenny to give Ogbene game time plus they'd be looking at bringing in someone who would be a starter not a squad player.

Also I think a u23 league is more of a priority than the u13s league, young players at 12 and 13 will be grand where they are as long as they are being challenged where as most lads who'll come out of 19s will still be developing themselves and will need to be playing with either the first team or getting game time somewhere else. While the club's in Dublin and surrounding area can easily send youngsters to other clubs in the area it's alot harder for teams like Limerick, Galway or Sligo find it harder to send youngsters out on loan as they simply couldn't afford to travel long distances or pay for accommodation and if they aren't good enough to be playing first team football at 18/19 Then there lost to junoir football and you often get lads who are late developers so somewhere for them to play while remaining at their clubs is the best option.

Plus a u23s league is another way for encouraging new teams to join the league of Ireland, no real point of Kerry and Cavan/Monaghan having a 19s team when the players then have to go back playing local football unless they are good enough to join another team. A 23s league would allow these lads another four years to develop and possibly then join the first division as they'll have a squad full of lads all aged around 22/23 instead of 18/19.

Sue Pa Key Pa

There needs to be a reserve/U23 league to keep fringe players interested and show the manager what they are capable of. For 1st division clubs, players also need to be allowed play for their local Junior club. How can you ask a player train all year with minimal prospects of playing a competitive match?

topmanamillion

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Yeah because Limerick are gonna drop Aaron Greene or Stephen Kenny to give Ogbene game time plus they'd be looking at bringing in someone who would be a starter not a squad player.

Also I think a u23 league is more of a priority than the u13s league, young players at 12 and 13 will be grand where they are as long as they are being challenged where as most lads who'll come out of 19s will still be developing themselves and will need to be playing with either the first team or getting game time somewhere else. While the club's in Dublin and surrounding area can easily send youngsters to other clubs in the area it's alot harder for teams like Limerick, Galway or Sligo find it harder to send youngsters out on loan as they simply couldn't afford to travel long distances or pay for accommodation and if they aren't good enough to be playing first team football at 18/19 Then there lost to junoir football and you often get lads who are late developers so somewhere for them to play while remaining at their clubs is the best option.

Plus a u23s league is another way for encouraging new teams to join the league of Ireland, no real point of Kerry and Cavan/Monaghan having a 19s team when the players then have to go back playing local football unless they are good enough to join another team. A 23s league would allow these lads another four years to develop and possibly then join the first division as they'll have a squad full of lads all aged around 22/23 instead of 18/19.

Thanks for that here was me thinking around 12 years is crucial in a footballers development as they need to have developed the core skills of the game by then and a point where our current system is failing young player, but you saying they'll be grand really put my mind at ease.

The whole point of the underage leagues is to hoover up young players that haven't been picked up by British academies.

So by 19 years of age a player should be able to compete for a place in either a FD or PD squad.
The FD is currently around LSL level. It's highly unlikely a player that cant get game time in a FD side is going to develop into an Irish international or even a decent LOI player.

There really isn't an exodus of great underage talent being lost to Castlebar Celtic or Fanad United.

The average age of LOI squads is around 25 with a lot of benches and first teams being heavily populated with underage graduates so the opportunity is there for any player willing to work hard and take his chance when he gets it.

topmanamillion

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

There needs to be a reserve/U23 league to keep fringe players interested and show the manager what they are capable of. For 1st division clubs, players also need to be allowed play for their local Junior club. How can you ask a player train all year with minimal prospects of playing a competitive match?

I think it's a UEFA directive that you can't have dual registered players.
Junior clubs also operate on a winter season basis so you would have a situation where players could be playing year round.
Also I'd suspect junior /LOI clubs would have no interest in sharing players with another club with an increase in fatigue and injuries that that would bring.

There is zero guarantee that a reserve/U23 league would keep anyone interested.
Players may well view the LSL or MSL or one of the big county leagues as far more competitive and a more worth while prize.

Pat D. Almighty

I think the FAI need to appoint someone soley to look after the league in conjunction with the member clubs. Also, encouraging each County to have a club. If Sligo can sustain good crowds considering the population, why can't Carlow, Leitrim, Offally etc aim to build clubs from scratch, or build on current infastructures, like Cabinteely.