Tragic situation involving a neighbour's cat

SnakePlissken

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I'd rather take my chances against a cat than an aggressive Alsatian.

I'd rather take my chances against a loved and well disciplined Alsation than an aggressive, uncontrollable cat.

*Ninja edit of unfortunate autocorrect *

LexieOnRale

LexieOnRale wrote: »

You have a duty of care to anyone who enters your property.

You most certainly do not.

Have you just taken the Occupier's Liability Act and thrown it out the window?

Just a few months ago the country was appalled to discover that there was a duty of care to recreational users who had permission to enter land. Your idea that there is a duty of care to "anyone" is gone since the early 1990s.

MeatTwoVeg

SnakePlissken wrote:

I'd rather take my chances against a loved and well disciplined Albanian than an aggressive, uncontrollable cat.

I'd rather take my chances against a small root vegetable than a armed special forces solider with a grudge.

MeatTwoVeg

Anyhow, getting back to the OP's situation, I would suggest that the only prudent action to take would be to have the animal destroyed.
It's far too great a risk to have such an animal in an environment where small children might be present.

Mary63

Sorry but when your time is up its up even if you have got nine lives.

Maybe your friend should just have buried the cat and said nothing.

muddypaws

Deleted User wrote: »

No no, we are not talking about Irish law at all.

You see...dogs don't understand the law.

We are talking about the difference between attacks by cats and dogs, and the dangers posed by each. Hilariously, you think Irish dogs are more respectful of the law than foreign dogs. I live in the real world but you work away.

Have I wandered into the twilight zone instead of boards.ie? OP asked for advice about a situation that has occurred in Ireland, or did they not?

pilly

This is a difficult situation for both parties. I have both a dog and cat and have had numerous different ones over the years. I remember a vet telling me you make a choice with a cat, you either let it wander (which is in its nature) and risk it not coming back for numerous reasons (cars, trucks, other cats, dogs) or you keep it in the house. The owner of the cat made a choice to let the cat wander and in doing so should have known the risks.

They are understandably upset but I'd imagine they will calm down and realise it wasn't your friends fault.

My only other concern though would be if the dog has such aggressive tendencies I would keep it well away from children, just in case.

heroics

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Anyhow, getting back to the OP's situation, I would suggest that the only prudent action to take would be to have the animal destroyed.
It's far too great a risk to have such an animal in an environment where small children might be present.

Next time a cat brinks home a dead animal can we also destroy (nice word) the cat? What if the dog had caught a rat in the back garden should it also be destroyed then?

OP ignore the advice above. As has been said by other people in this thread dog did nothing wrong and your friend has nothing to worry about

MeatTwoVeg

heroics wrote:

Next time a cat brinks home a dead animal can we also destroy (nice word) the cat? What if the dog had caught a rat in the back garden should it also be destroyed then?

Whataboutery.

We're discussing the OP's situation not some random event you've made up.

Allinall

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Whataboutery.

We're discussing the OP's situation not some random event you've made up.

What small children are you talking about, or did you just randomly make them up?

Ragnar Lothbrok

I've lived with cats all my life and have never owned a dog, although I do like them.

One of my cats had the misfortune to die in exactly the same way as described in the OP. I did NOT demand the dog's owner put down the dog. My cat had been in the dog's garden and sadly didn't make it back out again - I didn't blame the dog or its owner. And in fairness, the owner of the dog was almost as upset as I was.

I also think it's ridiculous to say that if the dog in question attacks and kills a cat, it follows that the same dog would attack a child. My cat chases birds on my back garden (fortunately he never seems to catch them) but that doesn't mean he'll attack a small child.

I do hope the cat owner doesn't turn out to be a crazy-cat-lady type capable of harming the dog in question. As suggested in other posts, I would recommend keeping a close eye on the dog for a while.

NickNickleby

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

It's far too great a risk to have such an animal in an environment where small children might be present.

Very well put. So when the children arrive for a visit, put the dog in the kennel till they go home. Problem solved without recourse to killing an animal for being itself.

BTW, my mother and sisters love dogs. BIG dogs. I wont visit if the dogs are loose. I won't have a dog in my house. So I'm no dog lover.

MeatTwoVeg

Allinall wrote:

What small children are you talking about, or did you just randomly make them up?

You don't believe in small children?

OK.

pilly

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

I've lived with cats all my life and have never owned a dog, although I do like them.

One of my cats had the misfortune to die in exactly the same way as described in the OP. I did NOT demand the dog's owner put down the dog. My cat had been in the dog's garden and sadly didn't make it back out again - I didn't blame the dog or its owner. And in fairness, the owner of the dog was almost as upset as I was.

I also think it's ridiculous to say that if the dog in question attacks and kills a cat, it follows that the same dog would attack a child. My cat chases birds on my back garden (fortunately he never seems to catch them) but that doesn't mean he'll attack a small child.

I do hope the cat owner doesn't turn out to be a crazy-cat-lady type capable of harming the dog in question. As suggested in other posts, I would recommend keeping a close eye on the dog for a while.

Although this discussion is not about a child I still think it's pertinent to point out that ANY dog can bite a child and should be supervised at all times around them. I mentioned it in my previous post because some dogs are naturally more snappy than others, (not the dogs fault, just nature). Point being they should be careful when kids are around.

My own dog is a Springer Spaniel whom I've never heard even bark and I wouldn't leave him alone in a room with a child, just in case. Child could poke dog in the eye and he'll react the way nature intended.

TheOven

If you let your cat wander then being attacked by another animal is something you have to be prepared for. If the dog got into their garden or was roaming outside then the dog owner would be responsible. The dog was contained. The responsibility is to keep your animal contained, not to keep everyone else's out.

Allinall

pilly wrote: »

Although this discussion is not about a child I still think it's pertinent to point out that ANY dog can bite a child and should be supervised at all times around them. I mentioned it in my previous post because some dogs are naturally more snappy than others, (not the dogs fault, just nature). Point being they should be careful when kids are around.


My own dog is a Springer Spaniel whom I've never heard even bark and I wouldn't leave him alone in a room with a child, just in case. Child could poke dog in the eye and he'll react the way nature intended.

According to genitalia above he should be exterminated.

MeatTwoVeg

pilly wrote:

Although this discussion is not about a child I still think it's pertinent to point out that ANY dog can bite a child and should be supervised at all times around them.

Very true, but German Shepard's are one of the most likely breeds to attack people and it's one of the reasons the OP can't take any chances in this scenario.
It's not a coincidence that this particular breed is used extensively in police and military forces worldwide. They were even Hitler's favourite breed.
Basically not suitable for a residential environment particularly if they've shown signs of aggression.

HellSquirrel

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Presumably it'll be the kid's fault for going into the back garden.

Bambi wrote: »

When I was kid we knew if you kicked the ball over into a neighbors garden that had a german shepherd in it then it was a bad idea to try retrieve said ball

presumably kids these days are f**kin thick

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Ignorance of the law is no excuse

Funnily enough, as far as I am aware, ignorance of the law IS an excuse specifically when it comes to children and trespassing. It appears to be accepted in law (now, I'm not 100% if it applies under IRISH law, which is admittedly the important one in this case) that kids will be kids and if you have a frankly dangerous situation on your property (like a large pit, for instance) and a child wanders in and is injured or killed, you can be liable, even if they were trespassing.

This is totally beside the point of the actual story, mind you.

Regarding the cat, I'm a cat-person myself and I'd be very upset if my cat died like that, but I also believe that a cat's nature is to wander and look after itself to some extent and there are always risks to that. The dog wasn't at fault, although your friend should keep an eye on her if she's out walking her or has her on public property for a bit, mostly in case the dog gets a taste for cat. She's a big dog and if she had her out and the dog spots a moggy and goes for it, that's when things could get messy, be it because the dog hurts the cat, the cat hurts the dog, someone tries to protect the cat and gets bitten or either dog or cat dashes into the road and gets hit by a car.

So, a bit of caution advised there, and I'd probably have shown the dog the cat and smacked her nose to tell her that no, this is not a thing to be encouraged, but if I was the cat owner, I would not try to sue the owner of the dog or see the dog put down. It's unreasonable.

pilly

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Very true, but German Shepard's are one of the most likely breeds to attack people and it's one of the reasons the OP can't take any chances in this scenario.
It's not a coincidence that this particular breed is used extensively in police and military forces worldwide. They were even Hitler's favourite breed.
Basically not suitable for a residential environment particularly if they've shown signs of aggression.

Agree some breeds are more likely to attack but if 1 or 2 adults live in a house and decide to keep a German Shepard that's their choice. I don't think children should be put a risk but going by your logic then all German Shepard's should be destroyed? Bit extreme don't you think?

HellSquirrel

waitwaitwait, did someone actually Godwin a thread about cats?

Allinall

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Very true, but German Shepard's are one of the most likely breeds to attack people and it's one of the reasons the OP can't take any chances in this scenario.
It's not a coincidence that this particular breed is used extensively in police and military forces worldwide. They were even Hitler's favourite breed.
Basically not suitable for a residential environment particularly if they've shown signs of aggression.

All complete BS.

MeatTwoVeg

Allinall wrote:

All complete BS.

A well researched rebuttal.

amcalester

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

A well researched rebuttal.

You made the assertion that German Shepherds are one of the most likely breeds to attack people.

Perhaps you should back that up?

SnakePlissken

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Very true, but German Shepard's are one of the most likely breeds to attack people.
It's not a coincidence that this particular breed is used extensively in police and military forces worldwide. They were even Hitler's favourite breed.
Basically not suitable for a residential environment particularly if they've shown signs of aggression.

They're used by police and the military due to their intelligence, obedience, and general predictable nature when trained correctly, if aggression was the deciding factor, the police and military would patrol with angry ferrets.

Might I suggest you educate yourself on this particular breed before making baseless and quite frankly infantile calls for their mass cull.

seamus

/walks into thread

/sees the hysteria about cats == children has started

/leaves thread

pilly

SnakePlissken wrote: »

They're used by police and the military due to their intelligence, obedience, and general predictable nature when trained correctly, if aggression was the deciding factor, the police and military would patrol with angry ferrets.

Might I suggest you educate yourself on this particular breed before making baseless and quite frankly infantile calls for their mass cull.

:D:D

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

They were even Hitler's favourite breed.

Godwin's law is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazism or Hitler approaches 1"

H3llR4iser

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Funnily enough, as far as I am aware, ignorance of the law IS an excuse specifically when it comes to children and trespassing. It appears to be accepted in law (now, I'm not 100% if it applies under IRISH law, which is admittedly the important one in this case) that kids will be kids and if you have a frankly dangerous situation on your property (like a large pit, for instance) and a child wanders in and is injured or killed, you can be liable, even if they were trespassing.

Worrisome how we are becoming. When I was a child, say 6-10 years old (that was only 25-something years ago, not 250), our parents made it clear to us that there were boundaries and we needed to be respectful of other people's property and about our own safety. If a few of us kids, say, climbed over a neighbour's fence to play in their garden and they kicked us out, once home we'd be scolded/grounded for being disrespectful of their home/garden and made to apologize to the family - and it'd be over there and then, lesson learned (that you don't just go into other people's gardens uninvited) and friends like before. Nowadays, mommy and daddy would sue the neighbour for "scaring" their precious little thug angel.

Likewise, if we kicked the ball in the garden with a rottweiler residing in it, the last thing we'd dream about would be to climb over to get it - ring the resident to politely ask for the ball back was the course of action, because our parents taught us about respect...oth, and that for your own safety, you just don't want to wander into a guard dog's territory

HellSquirrel wrote: »

This is totally beside the point of the actual story, mind you.

True, sorry for the derailment...

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Regarding the cat, I'm a cat-person myself and I'd be very upset if my cat died like that, but I also believe that a cat's nature is to wander and look after itself to some extent and there are always risks to that.

You sound like a very grounded and reasonable person, the one problem I have with this statement is that if the cat's "nature" is to wander and they are let to do so extensively, then they really are "urban wildlife" rather than pets - not anymore than, say, than birds coming to feed off a bird table in the garden are.

Contrary to you, unfortunately, a lot of "cat people" live in cuckoo land.

At a property I lived in the past, I had multiple dealings with people around me letting their cats out all the time and them coming over in the garden and "doing their business" everywhere; Not to mention the paintwork off my car being riddled with a million hairline scratch marks over the bonnet, roof and trunk - we're talking about 1000-1500 Euro worth of respraying, if I wished so (as it would only to get damaged again, I won't bother).

When I raised the issue, they all denied all of this was possible, that their "babies" wouldn't come to my garden, if they did they wouldn't poo and pee everywhere as they had the "litterbox", that most certainly wouldn't scratch the car and that in any case, it was their "nature" to wander and that they couldn't do anything about it. I actually showed them footage of their cats littering my property and using my car as a scratching post and they would still be in denial - and still just let the cats out in the morning before going to work :mad:

dodderangler

ken wrote: »

Mod- The next person to advocate animal cruelty in this thread is getting a very long ban.

How did I advocate animal cruelty? Giving me a warning for calling a cat smelly and for say fcuk right off?? AH really gone downhill huh

JustAThought

I see the hater from the anjmal & pets forum is here. Sad story - sorry to hear about the poor cats sudden demise. Lovely job on the garden. For all you know the cat had a bad leg/sore toe/cut toenails/overfed at breakfast & fir a variety of reasons other than your lovely garden couldn't run fast enough that day. Either way the loss of a pet is ways a very sad time - I'm assuming the cat (rip) owners know their pet is 'gone' and the circumstances & that 'you' did your best to save it. I'd leave it alone at that &Just make sure the dog(s) are licenced as if the cat people call the warden the only thing he can do IF he calls to the door and IF you decide to open it is to ask if your dog is licensed. Put the dog in the back garden or where he won't bark or be seen when you talk to him so he cannot make any observations or have any input. The poor cat met a terrible end, no doubt the owners are traumatised and may try to put restrictions on you or your garden design. You dont want to taunt them or take responsibility for their pet management . Unfortunately their cat cut across your property, you have a dog, dogs are territorial and will chase cats particularly in their own area, the cat unfortunately died as a result of its wanderings & being in your property. If they get lunatic just say you are sorry that their pet died & that you did your best to save it but don't allow them to bully you or make you put chickenwire in your trellis or make you pets life horrible or tie it up or kill it - they can create a cat run in their garden if they wish for their pet which will keep it safe & where they can supervise its activities & wanderings.

Poor ole cat!! Bet the dog was delighted with itself!!! Btw my (big) dog loved to chase cats on the street ( v dangerous/cars) & rabbits /frogs /mice in the parks etc - she never caught a cat ( thankfully) but did devour rabbits/etc - if she killed it I let her eat it as there was no point in having it die in vain but this never meant she would devour babies or gorge herself on teenagers when she had an idle moment, nor that she should be put down for doing what nature intended. Dogs and cats are natural enemies - Warner Brothers made a long running cartoon based on the luck & chaos of two - 'Tom & Jerry' - we all know it & grew up on it. Its unfortunate that this cats luck finally ran out and that its owners didn't do something for it while it was alive knowing there was a big dog next door, other than trusting to luck.

jimgoose

Cats are wild animals. They are unlicensed, no-one "owns" them and they roam as and where they will. And as is the way in the wild, sometimes they get killed. And that's about all there is to it.

Dyr

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Very true, but German Shepard's are one of the most likely breeds to attack people

Sounds interesting, feel like backing that up?

Pim Pictus

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Worrisome how we are becoming. When I was a child, say 6-10 years old (that was only 25-something years ago, not 250), our parents made it clear to us that there were boundaries and we needed to be respectful of other people's property and about our own safety. If a few of us kids, say, climbed over a neighbour's fence to play in their garden and they kicked us out, once home we'd be scolded/grounded for being disrespectful of their home/garden and made to apologize to the family - and it'd be over there and then, lesson learned (that you don't just go into other people's gardens uninvited) and friends like before. Nowadays, mommy and daddy would sue the neighbour for "scaring" their precious little thug angel.

Likewise, if we kicked the ball in the garden with a rottweiler residing in it, the last thing we'd dream about would be to climb over to get it - ring the resident to politely ask for the ball back was the course of action, because our parents taught us about respect...oth, and that for your own safety, you just don't want to wander into a guard dog's territory



True, sorry for the derailment...



You sound like a very grounded and reasonable person, the one problem I have with this statement is that if the cat's "nature" is to wander and they are let to do so extensively, then they really are "urban wildlife" rather than pets - not anymore than, say, than birds coming to feed off a bird table in the garden are.

Contrary to you, unfortunately, a lot of "cat people" live in cuckoo land.

At a property I lived in the past, I had multiple dealings with people around me letting their cats out all the time and them coming over in the garden and "doing their business" everywhere; Not to mention the paintwork off my car being riddled with a million hairline scratch marks over the bonnet, roof and trunk - we're talking about 1000-1500 Euro worth of respraying, if I wished so (as it would only to get damaged again, I won't bother).

When I raised the issue, they all denied all of this was possible, that their "babies" wouldn't come to my garden, if they did they wouldn't poo and pee everywhere as they had the "litterbox", that most certainly wouldn't scratch the car and that in any case, it was their "nature" to wander and that they couldn't do anything about it. I actually showed them footage of their cats littering my property and using my car as a scratching post and they would still be in denial - and still just let the cats out in the morning before going to work :mad:

They don't scratch cars. They know when their claws are effective and a steel car isn't. Mine spend all summer sitting on my car and there isn't a single scratch on it.

H3llR4iser

Pim Pictus wrote: »

They don't scratch cars. They know when their claws are effective and a steel car isn't. Mine spend all summer sitting on my car and there isn't a single scratch on it.

My car's paintwork says otherwise and I have personally seen some doing so (including two of them having a fight on its roof which left tiny but clear marks). They can get at least through the clearcoat / lacquer, which triggers a chain reaction that ends up ruining the paint underneath. The fact your cat doesn't scratch your car doesn't meant no cat scratches any car.

*EDIT: I had written "your car doesn't scratch your cat"

dodderangler

H3llR4iser wrote: »

My car's paintwork says otherwise and I have personally seen some doing so (including two of them having a fight on its roof which left tiny but clear marks). They can get at least through the clearcoat / lacquer, which triggers a chain reaction that ends up ruining the paint underneath. The fact your cat doesn't scratch your car doesn't meant no cat scratches any car.

*EDIT: I had written "your car doesn't scratch your cat"

I've seen several cars with scratches on em from cars. They destroy paint jobs

kylith

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

TBH putting aside the issue of whether the cat should have been in your garden, your dog sounds worryingly aggressive. Given the breed in question, it's not appropriate to have such an animal in a residential environment.

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Anyhow, getting back to the OP's situation, I would suggest that the only prudent action to take would be to have the animal destroyed.
It's far too great a risk to have such an animal in an environment where small children might be present.

Usually if I wanted to see that much bollocks I'd have to watch gay porn.

Many dogs would kill a cat if they caught it. Sight hounds kill rabbits. Terriers kill rats. Should all them be killed too?

HellSquirrel

I must admit, I have never heard of a cat scratching paintwork (bar in one very specific case where a cat was making a concerted effort to chew off the licence plate - good excuse for the Gardai there. "Sorry, Garda, I had a licence-plate, but the cat et it."), and I've lived with and around them all my life. However, doesn't mean they don't, just that I've not seen it. Some of it may be down to hedges and tree branches, mind, or wheeliebins in a town/city (those things are a menace to parked cars).

Regarding the child/trespassing thing, I think that's been around quite a while, H3llr4iser. Sure, most adults will be harsher on an adult trespassing, but are more inclined to just shoo kids out with a flea in their ear. It's just a thing that kids are adventurous and don't fully comprehend the law, not so much with gardens (although I recall a very tempting garden with all sorts of interesting things in it that used to -eat- balls on our street and several's the top secret mission various of us had involving slithering under bushes and over walls to Mission Impossible our ball back! (Yeah, we'd have all gotten a thick ear if caught by any of our parents and we'd have deserved it, but it wasn't -bad- mischief. Not one of us would have gone in to deliberately cause damage or stood on the flowerbeds. There's a difference between being bold and being bad, so to speak.)

The point of it is that people don't -entirely- have the right to have egregiously dangerous set-ups on their property, like a pit filled with broken up machinery or something equally daft*. A dog doesn't really cut it as it's a visible potential threat and as you and a few others have mentioned, the vast majority of kids have a -certain- amount of common sense!

Regarding cats wandering, certainly where I lived it was the norm. Cats were part-indoors and part outdoors and usually went roaming around until it was time to be fed. I don't mean half-wild or stray though. Admittedly, collars and microchipping weren't really a thing at the time, so it could be hard to tell the difference. And just sometimes, they didn't come back, although the only case I recall offhand is our own one wandering off when he was a day or so from being taken to the vets to be put down as the poor old thing was really on his last legs (aged 20!)

*That was actually the situation in the case I'm vaguely recalling where the point of children/trespassing was made clear.

MeatTwoVeg

kylith wrote:

Many dogs would kill a cat if they caught it. Sight hounds kill rabbits. Terriers kill rats. Should all them be killed too?

If you were anyway concerned about them attacking a small child that may have inadvertently entered their area, then I think yes, that would be the most prudent option.

ohnonotgmail

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

If you were anyway concerned about them attacking a small child that may have inadvertently entered their area, then I think yes, that would be the most prudent option.

Did the OP raise any concern that their dog might attack a child? A dog attacked a cat. that is part of being a dog. short of staking it to the ground there isnt really much you can do about it. it does not mean that the dog is a danger to children.

scamalert

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Did the OP raise any concern that their dog might attack a child? A dog attacked a cat. that is part of being a dog. short of staking it to the ground there isnt really much you can do about it. it does not mean that the dog is a danger to children.

before someone comes in and says what if little jimmy climbed in to get his ball that he was kicking and because his parents didn't give a fck attention to their kid and went into garden to get the ball and got attacked.Its this stupidity of our generation where people become egg shells when it comes to anything that happens to look to blame on someone else as little lack of consciousness bypasses them.

most dogs hunt and kill cats,this one eventually got one,end of story,by next year they will prob have another 20 breeding.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

Was kinda wrestling with this idea too.

I mean like, if a dog mauls another reasonably large animal to death, while it might not be the dog's fault, it's not of no concern whatsoever either. And it might be at least suggested that the dog needs to be removed from an environment. What if a kid tries to get his ball back...

The dog will wag its tail and try to play with them. Dogs maul things to death. As do wolves and many other animals. The big cats have given this impression that in nature predators have clean kills where they apply a precise move to kill the prey quickly, but it doesn't work like that for most predators. Wild dogs would literally eat an animal alive.

But dogs treat people different from prey animals, they put humans at the top, then themselves, then grudgingly put other dogs on the list of things it's not going to kill. Everything else can go **** itself as far as dogs are concerned.

Dogs have been killing animals side by side with humans for millennia, there's no confusion in their mind.

Dyr

dodderangler wrote: »

I've seen several cars with scratches on em from cars. They destroy paint jobs

I've seen cats with paint spray climbing up on buildings and tagging them

pilly

ScumLord wrote: »

The dog will wag its tail and try to play with them. Dogs maul things to death. As do wolves and many other animals. The big cats have given this impression that in nature predators have clean kills where they apply a precise move to kill the prey quickly, but it doesn't work like that for most predators. Wild dogs would literally eat an animal alive.

But dogs treat people different from prey animals, they put humans at the top, then themselves, then grudgingly put other dogs on the list of things it's not going to kill. Everything else can go **** itself as far as dogs are concerned.

Dogs have been killing animals side by side with humans for millennia, there's no confusion in their mind.

If there's no confusion how do you explain a dog killing a child?

jimgoose

pilly wrote: »

If there's no confusion how do you explain a dog killing a child?

Any dog is capable of killing a human child. If they feel frightened or threatened they turn on tenpence straight back to their natural instinct, which is to attack. Young children and babies are particularly in danger, as their arrival often means altering the dogs position in the "pack", e.g. from centre of attention to just De Dag.

uch

You should tell your neighbour to put up a warning sign for cats to know there's a dog over the fence and not to enter

pilly

jimgoose wrote: »

Any dog is capable of killing a human child. If they feel frightened or threatened they turn on tenpence straight back to their natural instinct, which is to attack. Young children and babies are particularly in danger, as their arrival often means altering the dogs position in the "pack", e.g. from centre of attention to just De Dag.

Precisely the point I was trying to make. There is confusion for a dog around children.

MeatTwoVeg

ScumLord wrote:

Dogs have been killing animals side by side with humans for millennia, there's no confusion in their mind.

So Dogs have never attacked people?

ScumLord

pilly wrote: »

If there's no confusion how do you explain a dog killing a child?

How do you explain a human killing a child? What incidents are you referring too? Was the dog abused? Thought to attack people? antagonized?

The majority of dogs, just like the majority of people, don't attack other people for no reason.

jimgoose

pilly wrote: »

Precisely the point I was trying to make. There is confusion for a dog around children.

No there isn't. That's the thing. A dog is a dog. Anyone who leaves a dog - any dog - to it's own devices around children is a fool.

pilly

jimgoose wrote: »

No there isn't. That's the thing. A dog is a dog. Anyone who leaves a dog - any dog - to it's own devices around children is a fool.

Not sure why you're arguing with me, we're completely on the same page.