Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Wibbs

lawlolawl wrote: »

Congrats, you just raped her with those statements by noticing something about her femininity. You should be ashamed :mad:

Eh no L, what she wears or doesn't wear, or what she looks like shouldn't and doesn't mean jack shít. For me this sorta thing comes down to; does her premise and presentation of premise pass muster, end of, full stop, period for our 'Merican viewers. And for me, it doesn't.

Connacht2KXX

midnight city wrote: »

We should refer to Louise and those like her as feminist extremists or justs extremists.

Extremists are people whose beliefs and actions stray away from the basic tenants of a particular ideology. O'Neil regurgitates the common feminist/sjw ideas and phrases - ie rape culture, white privilege, heternormative. There's not a chance in hell she authentically came up with this shít herself.

Sonics2k

zeroliner wrote: »

She writes good books, but has bought into her "FAME" and is over estimating her influence and power as of late

She also has the worst dress sense ever, and needs someone with a bit of cop to do her makeup for TV.

Who gives a flying crap about what she wears?

I don't agree with her opinions on a lot of stuff, but saying absolute dribbling nonsense like this does not help at all.

Widdershins

learn_more wrote: »

I'm going out on the rape tonight.

Sorry I mean to say 'I'm going out on the pull', not the rape , the pull.

Ah now, don't be talking about exerting force to draw someone towards yourself

Penny Tration

She just comes across as someone pretending to be offended by everything for the sake of getting attention.


As for me, a woman who has been through rape/assault, I see no rape culture in Ireland.

I see sexism, and scummy comments, and drunk men who need to be given a shove before they accept "no" as an answer. But I also see the same in women.


And that's not rape culture. That's a small % of fcuking morons that all societies have to deal with because there are some assholes everywhere.


The majority of people are good. Some are assholes. Assholes do not equal rape culture.

zeroliner

Sonics2k wrote: »

Who gives a flying crap about what she wears?

I don't agree with her opinions on a lot of stuff, but saying absolute dribbling nonsense like this does not help at all.

It was an aside.

People will find something to be offended over, where ever.

Poor Uncle Tom

Penny Tration wrote: »

She just comes across as someone pretending to be offended by everything for the sake of getting attention.


As for me, a woman who has been through rape/assault, I see no rape culture in Ireland.

I see sexism, and scummy comments, and drunk men who need to be given a shove before they accept "no" as an answer. But I also see the same in women.


And that's not rape culture. That's a small % of fcuking morons that all societies have to deal with because there are some assholes everywhere.


The majority of people are good. Some are assholes. Assholes do not equal rape culture.

Well said you...

zeroliner

Penny Tration wrote: »

She just comes across as someone pretending to be offended by everything for the sake of getting attention.


As for me, a woman who has been through rape/assault, I see no rape culture in Ireland.

I see sexism, and scummy comments, and drunk men who need to be given a shove before they accept "no" as an answer. But I also see the same in women.


And that's not rape culture. That's a small % of fcuking morons that all societies have to deal with because there are some assholes everywhere.


The majority of people are good. Some are assholes. Assholes do not equal rape culture.

Me too. I've had two really bad experiences. Louise O'Neill and her ilk don't make me feel any better about what happened to me.

storker

darkdubh wrote: »

Can anyone give a clear definition of what "rape culture" actually entails?

Rapes happening sometimes. Oh, and guys trying to cop off with girls.

Widdershins

This thread is going to be more grist to Louise's mill. Stand by for more primal screaming and floods of tears.

Connacht2KXX

Widdershins wrote: »

This thread is going to be more grist to Louise's mill. Stand by for more primal screaming and floods of tears.

She dedicated half an article in the examiner a few months ago about her online trolls when boards put up a thread criticising her. In the eyes of feminists, criticism = hate.

Ralf and Florian

Sonics2k wrote: »

Who gives a flying crap about what she wears?

I don't agree with her opinions on a lot of stuff, but saying absolute dribbling nonsense like this does not help at all.

Daft comment to make but it has to be said she's milking it for all it's worth.

http://www.her.ie/life/twitter-is-on-fire-over-a-derogatory-comment-made-about-louise-oneills-outfit/318753

lawlolawl

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

She dedicated half an article in the examiner a few months ago about her online trolls when boards put up a thread criticising her. In the eyes of feminists, criticism = hate.

Not just feminists, pretty much all young people.

So used to living in a hugbox where everyone is considered equally brilliant by default that if they encounter the slightest critism they are "being bullied".

py2006

As stated earlier, men are more likely to be physically assaulted or murdered in society. Yet we don't scream violent culture.

With regards sexual assault, when I was younger I had my ass pinched, crotch grabbed and asked how big my Penis was by girls in night clubs. I was by no means a frequent clubber. From discussions on here and elsewhere I'm not the only guy.

In the work place I've witnessed banterish comments of a sexual nature towards me and other guys from female staff. it's laughed off and not really a big deal but if men did it...

So should the raving feminists of today include women in their rape culture mantra? HIGHLY unlikely.

Wibbs

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

In the eyes of feminists, criticism = hate.

Just like an extremist group then.

py2006 wrote: »

So should the raving feminists of today include women in their rape culture mantra? HIGHLY unlikely.

True, but the rest of us, men, women, whomever don't need to be lining up with them in the Victimhood Olympics either. There's an arms race of daftness going on already, we need to dampen it down, not escalate it.

Widdershins wrote: »

This thread is going to be more grist to Louise's mill. Stand by for more primal screaming and floods of tears.

A cynic might suggest it pays her bills. It does too and like any of these "columnists" a large part of me says fair play to them for getting away with it.

Wibbs

lawlolawl wrote: »

Not just feminists, pretty much all young people.

So used to living in a hugbox where everyone is considered equally brilliant by default that if they encounter the slightest critism they are "being bullied".

I would say it's more the increasing prevalence of online echo chambers. Ten years or so ago when the internet became fully mainstream where it went from an environment mostly populated by nerds and the computer literate to most "ordinary" people(and with mobile devices everyone and their grannies). It was more a generalist environment as far as non techie discussion went. It was novel for many so they just dove in. Over the years the once generalists started to hang out with like minded people as humans will and factions became more set and echo chambers grew. Facebook, Reddit, twitter and more extreme in outlook sites, even ecosystems like whatsapp have become more popular. On all subjects.

We can even see it here on Boards as it evolved. Boards was/is a more middle of the road environment, not unlike wider Irish society. The proof of this is that you'll have extreme lefties moaning and leaving because "it's becoming too right wing" and extreme righties moaning and leaving because "it's becoming too left wing" and neither see the glaring problem with this logic.

So when people do leave generalist sites they head for echo chambers where they can egg each other on in support. Any person in a community who goes too far off script won't last long. They'll be ignored, down voted, trolled, even banned in short order(or not invited to join in the first place). This leads as we've seen to very one track communities. This type of "feminism" is but one example and as I said it sells papers and clicks and is seen as more "acceptable" by the suburban classes than a male version say. There's also an undercurrent of "ahh girls are a silly little creatures, aren't they" to it too.

cantdecide

Wibbs wrote: »

There's also an undercurrent of "ahh girls are a silly little creatures, aren't they" to it too.

I have always maintained this idea too but it does meld with the 'strong independent victim' and slacktivist mentality.

Wibbs wrote: »

This type of "feminism" is but one example and as I said it sells papers and clicks and is seen as more "acceptable" by the suburban classes than a male version say.

It's bourgeois feminism pandering to a target market. Look at TED these days. It's a product that apparently sells quite well.

The Rape of Lucretia

hollymartins wrote: »

I see a tv critic commented on Louise O'Neills outfit during one interview in the show, her bare shoulders distracted him. LON has gone to town with outrage #shouldergate

I have to admit I was distracted by this outfit too but only because it looked awful.

She had another ensemble that was very Pretty Woman in high boots, and even had shots of her strolling along alone looking like a movie caricature of a prostitute. It did make me wonder was she doing it on purpose to draw the comments so she could then criticise those same comments. Considering the subject of her programme is was more than odd. Manufacturing the outrage opportunity maybe, if you will.

Zulu

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

There's a toolbox out there missing a spanner.

I would have said wrench.

Zulu

cantdecide wrote: »

It's bourgeois feminism pandering to a target market. Look at TED these days. It's a product that apparently sells quite well.

Which is surprising considering the "wage gap"... :rolleyes:


... Or on further consideration maybe that's why!

johnnyskeleton

I thought the show would maybe involve interviews with the DPP, gardai etc and try to explain why so many reported rape cases arent sent to the dpp, so many cases sent to the dpp arent prosecuted and maybe some specific insights into why there are lots of acquittals in criminal trials.

They had a barrister who tried to explain it to her, but the presenter seemed more interested in making politicial/social points about how bad the criminal justice system is rsther than trying to actually understand how things are.

The Black Oil

Yep, she seemed to frame to documentary in such a way that her conclusions came first, i.e. 'Rape culture exists in Ireland: I'm going to check this out', rather than 'is there a problem, it might be _____what's the evidence?' Had this been Prime Time/Prime Time Investigates it would have been a very different piece.

Not to say there were no good points or speakers. There were, but if it was more factual than entertainment they could have made a two part series. I was disappointed she didn't speak to second level students even though they don't get info on consent.

johnnyskeleton

The Black Oil wrote: »

Yep, she seemed to frame to documentary in such a way that her conclusions came first, i.e. 'Rape culture exists in Ireland: I'm going to check this out', rather than 'is there a problem, it might be _____what's the evidence?'

Rape culture, in the white ribbon sense of "if guys talk about attractive girls in a jocular way it leads to a pervading sense that rape is acceptable" is too vague to be analysed based on evidence.

Meanwhile, rape culture in the sense of systemic sexual abuse in Irish institutions and the church is far too serious for this style of show.

The examples she uses, some of which are from the US e.g. brock turner, are used to show how people are, rightly, upset by certain low prison sentences. She then extrapolates the general from this, ignoring the significant sentences for rape handed out in Ireland on an almost weekly basis. Effectively, she is using a skewed sample to prove her conclusions.

I honestly believe that what really discourages genuine rape victims from coming forward and potentially emboldens rapists are these media programmes and articles that trivilaise the criminal justice process.

What she does is selectively skew the facts tomaking it seem like most rapists get away with it! If anything is "rape culture" surely her programme is.

mzungu

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I thought the show would maybe involve interviews with the gardai, gardai etc and try to explain why so many reported rape cases arent sent to the dpp, so many cases sent to the dpp arent prosecuted and maybe some specific insights into why there are lots of acquittals in criminal trials.

A full and rounded investigation? Ah look, who needs that? Instead, we were treated to a completely objective interview with two lads from Right On online publications (the only lads featured IIRC), who shockingly enough, completely shared her worldview, and waxed lyrical about the dynamics of the modern man that nicely fitted her preconceived idea of men. Sure, we don't need to be digging into any the complex legalities at play, especially when there is an axe to grind. Get with the program.

They had a barrister who tried to explain it to her, but the presenter seemed more interested in making politicial/social points about how bad the criminal justice system is rsther than trying to actually understand how things are.

The interviewees were quite interesting, but there was an element point scoring going on there. I think this did more harm than good. It would have worked better if it had been more conversational, rather than trying to get the digs in at the justice system. The viewer would have gotten a hell of a lot more information. We already know what Louise O'Neill thinks, so it would have been better to focus in a lot more on the people she was speaking to and their knowledge of the intricacies of why exactly conviction rates are so low. In general, the reasons were given, but not in an in-depth fashion.

me_right_one

If anything, there's a culture of promiscuity in Ireland. But dare you even mention it.........

midnight city

mzungu wrote: »

We already know what Louise O'Neill thinks.

Yes and she is clearly a biased journalist. I would view anything she writes or broadcasts through a very sceptical eye. If she tried to be objective she may well have got through to both men and woman. As it was she went down the usual north American feminist route of collectively blaming men for rape. The vast majority of men are not rapists, know they would never rape and are repulsed by rape. She is instantly losing the ear of those men with her message. And why did she not focus a little boys and men who have been raped. The numbers are quite high.

Fr_Dougal

me_right_one wrote: »

If anything, there's a culture of promiscuity in Ireland. But dare you even mention it.........

I disagree. Ireland has finally broken from the shackles of the Catholic Church, and that's a good thing.

Sex isn't anything to be ashamed of.

ligerdub

The Black Oil wrote:

Yep, she seemed to frame to documentary in such a way that her conclusions came first, i.e. 'Rape culture exists in Ireland: I'm going to check this out', rather than 'is there a problem, it might be _____what's the evidence?' Had this been Prime Time/Prime Time Investigates it would have been a very different piece.

This was my primary issue with her and the show when I saw the ad.

I recall from the most high level academic research I undertook that there were certain protocols to follow and what were the things which made up a poor research project. A key one there was the level of bias of the researcher and electing to focus on or ignore certain aspects observed depending on personal preference.

To me this was absolutely central to this piece of work, and why she has absolutely no credibility.

lawlolawl

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Sex isn't anything to be ashamed of.

It is the way i do it.

Widdershins

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The examples she uses, some of which are from the US e.g. brock turner,........

I don't see how people can explain away her lack of interest in crimes against women in the Middle East or grooming and abuse gangs in England, when she's doing this.

osmiumartist

Widdershins wrote: »

I don't see how people can explain away her lack of interest in crimes against women in the Middle East or grooming and abuse gangs in England, when she's doing this.

Her whole modus operandum is to rile men, not to help women in any way. It's how the modern feminist makes a living.

Galwayguy35

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I disagree. Ireland has finally broken from the shackles of the Catholic Church, and that's a good thing.

Sex isn't anything to be ashamed of.

Safe sex is nothing to be ashamed of.

osmiumartist

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I disagree. Ireland has finally broken from the shackles of the Catholic Church, and that's a good thing.

Sex isn't anything to be ashamed of.

Except for revenge porn apparently...

py2006

osmiumartist wrote: »

Her whole modus operandum is to rile men, not to help women in any way. It's how the modern feminist makes a living.

Aside from that, if you look at any of her articles she seems to think that a paragraph is merely one sentence.

Ulysses Gaze

Widdershins wrote: »

I don't see how people can explain away her lack of interest in crimes against women in the Middle East or grooming and abuse gangs in England, when she's doing this.

This.

If Louise wants to really make an impact on discussions around rape culture and further expand the discourse in a meaningful way, then she needs to become as outspoken about overt rape culture closer to home i.e. in the UK in Rotherham, Rochdale etc as she does about US cases such as Duke Lacrosse or the Revenge porn scandal in UCD she mentioned in one of her articles.

She's not the only Third-Wave feminist to fail to do so. I mentioned in a prior post that most of the leading commentators in this movement have also not done so.

Wibbs

osmiumartist wrote: »

Her whole modus operandum is to rile men, not to help women in any way. It's how the modern feminist makes a living.

As I've said about her and her various media and political bedfellow's internal logic, it always comes down to this mantra, nay axiom; Women are always agentless victims and it is always men's fault.
Put any of this "philosophy" through that sentence and it will always come out in agreement.

Certain men are given somewhat of a free ride. Gay lads generally speaking, though certainly not always as it's the gay lads who are more likely to call out their shít as they have no skin in the game. Mewling "male feminists" that agree with their insanity and insecurities and constantly support and flatter them(while often hoping to get the roooide). Non White lads up to a point, if they see them as victims. Working class men are like working class women, mostly seen from the window of daddy's Audi and only regarded if at all as quaint parishioners down the back of the Most Holy Church of the Perpetual Victim. And Daddy of course. Though he's usually the marmite figure in such things. Either hated as the cause of all her problems(see axiom above), or the Man who can Never be replaced(™)(with a side order of the Electra complex). Mainly because he sees and still treats them like a child and will take their nonsense out of a sense of parental love. The Irish Mammy© comes in for some awful stick in how some Irish men turn out, but the Irish Daddy(™) is just as bad as far as indulgence and extending adolescence goes.

lawlolawl

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

This.

If Louise wants to really make an impact on discussions around actual rape culture and further expand the discourse in a meaningful way, then she needs to become as outspoken about overt rape culture closer to home i.e. in the UK in Rotherham, Rochdale etc as she does about US cases such as Duke Lacrosse or the Revenge porn scandal in UCD she mentioned in one of her articles.

She's not the only Third-Wave feminist to fail to do so. I mentioned in a prior post that most of the leading commentators in this movement have also not done so.

That would involve going after a target other than straight white middle class males.

Her and her ilk never stray outside their comfort zone.

lawlolawl

Wibbs wrote: »

Irish Daddy(™)

Stop posting my Grindr username please.

py2006

One interesting aspect to this thread is that there is very little (if any?) people agreeing with or defending Louise and her attitude.

lawlolawl

py2006 wrote: »

One interesting aspect to this thread is that there is very little (if any?) people agreeing with or defending Louise and her attitude.

Normal people are getting fairly sick of this type of **** at this stage.

Wibbs

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

She's not the only Third-Wave feminist to fail to do so. I mentioned that most of the leading lights in this movement have also failed to do so.

Makes perfect sense UG, when one considers the cultural environments and echo chambers most of them grew up within and inhabit. White, middle class, educated and cosseted. They only eat what is fed to them as it were. Their Oracle of Delphi is American University Left wing philosophy.

So just as Irish "RedPill" eejits take examples from say American divorce stats and stories and wider US culture, which bear scant relation to Irish culture, these eejit's frames of reference also flow from their own US sources.

Rotherham wouldn't be on US campus' radar, or feminist media outlets(Jezebel took six months to report it and gave it a half page) so local Irish "feminists" almost completely ignored it. The UCD scandal that never happened looked like our own watered down for Irish tastes University of Virginia rape culture as reported by Rolling Stone and of course the usual harpies made hay. Sadly it was all too alike as both stories were nonsense and never happened.

Be mindful of this too. Local provocateurs like O'Neill peddling their wares are very aware that their stock is limited in an Irish context, so she is most certainly keeping her wallet's eye on the huge US market, where this victim porn goes over a treat. Or with enough of a treat with enough people to be nicely lucrative ta very much. Her "exotic, while still White presentable mien, with a quaint accent" song and dance would be seen as manna from heaven to US publishers and TV with a segment to fill. A perfect Colleeeeen Carrie Bradshaw for the US millennial. No way will she go against the catechism of their Most Holy Church of the Perpetual Victim and actively look for any truth. It would threaten her potential earnings.

cursai

Hugh Mungus's victim made a response...well a few responses.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHrvNYUTTpw

Dr Jakub

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

This.

If Louise wants to really make an impact on discussions around rape culture and further expand the discourse in a meaningful way, then she needs to become as outspoken about overt rape culture closer to home i.e. in the UK in Rotherham, Rochdale etc as she does about US cases such as Duke Lacrosse or the Revenge porn scandal in UCD she mentioned in one of her articles.

She's not the only Third-Wave feminist to fail to do so. I mentioned in a prior post that most of the leading commentators in this movement have also not done so.

That would involve talking about brown men preying on white women and girls. It goes against the narrative so it's not going to happen.

midnight city

Dr Jakub wrote: »

That would involve talking about brown men preying on white women and girls. It goes against the narrative so it's going to happen.

An absolutely massive issue but never highlighted. White women targeted by Muslim men in UK and black men in USA is underreported. Feminism ignores the issue too which is shameful.

Dr Jakub

midnight city wrote: »

An absolutely massive issue but never highlighted. White women targeted by Muslim men in UK and black men in USA is underreported. Feminism ignores the issue too which is shameful.

Feminists really should start talking about the rape culture which has been imported into Europe.

midnight city

Dr Jakub wrote: »

Feminists really should start talking about the rape culture which has been imported into Europe.

Entire families were getting involved in the rape of under age white girls in Rotherham, father's and sons, brothers, uncles etc all getting involved in the abuse. That's a rape culture within the Pakistani community over there.

Ulysses Gaze

midnight city wrote: »

Entire families were getting involved in the rape of under age white girls in Rotherham, father's and sons, brothers, uncles etc all getting involved in the abuse. That's a rape culture within the Pakistani community over there.

And...massive collusion by the organs of state (i.e. The Patriarchy) to keep it all hush-hush.

And yet from Feminists.....not a word.

Widdershins

cursai wrote: »

Hugh Mungus's victim made a response...well a few responses.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHrvNYUTTpw

Repeating ''internalized oppression'' like a broken record in response to every criticism isn't much of a defense. She's clearly very set in her ways and not open minded enough to take criticism on board. She persistently speaks about what women have experienced and felt while steamrolling over everything women tell her about what they experience and feel. Laughable.And controlling. Comments are disabled just in case anyone wants to disagree with her.

osmiumartist

Wibbs wrote: »

We can even see it here on Boards as it evolved. Boards was/is a more middle of the road environment, not unlike wider Irish society. The proof of this is that you'll have extreme lefties moaning and leaving because "it's becoming too right wing" and extreme righties moaning and leaving because "it's becoming too left wing" and neither see the glaring problem with this logic.

That's more a case of left and right not meaning what a lot of people think they mean. If you don't want more immigrants but you aren't a racist, which one are you? "Lefties" will tell you that's impossible...

Bonniedog

osmiumartist wrote: »

That's more a case of left and right not meaning what a lot of people think they mean. If you don't want more immigrants but you aren't a racist, which one are you? "Lefties" will tell you that's impossible...

Left and Right in traditional sense mean nothing anymore. Biggest support for allegedly "far right" parties in Europe is from people who used to vote for Communists and socialists. Indeed there is direct correlation between collapse of French CP and rise of FN.


Unfortunately, Ireland has no alternative voice.