Trap bar and muscles used.

from_atozinc

Hi,

See attached image.

The exercise being performed here - is this using the same muscles as one would use in a traditional deadlift OR traditional squat ?

Probably seems like a silly question to those in the know, so apologies in advance.

Hanley

If a barbell deadlift is 100% deadlift, and a barbell squat is 100% squat...

You can probably call a trap bar DL 25% squat / 75% deadlift.

Hope that makes sense.

from_atozinc

Hanley wrote: »

If a barbell deadlift is 100% deadlift, and a barbell squat is 100% squat...

You can probably call a trap bar DL 25% squat / 75% deadlift.

Hope that makes sense.

Yeah. Kinda does.

Just in general though, I just don't know what is wrong with me. Specifically in regard to the standard barbell squat and deadlift. I look at loads of videos online, and think right, that's easy. the fit lads on it make it look so easy. They way they engage their core and keep their chest up and shoulder blades tight, glutes engaged, weight on heels, breathing at right time, zero rounding of back etc.

But in the real world when I go to do it, I always fook it up, I practice with just the bar and 5kg bumper plates and I still can't fully master it.

With the barbell deadlift, half the time I don't know whether I should be using or engaging my legs or my hips or my glutes at certain points in the lift. I'm probably just over thinking it, but I'm just trying to get the bloody form right and it's frustrating the sh1t outta me.

Alf Veedersane

from_atozinc wrote: »

Yeah. Kinda does.

Just in general though, I just don't know what is wrong with me. Specifically in regard to the standard barbell squat and deadlift. I look at loads of videos online, and think right, that's easy. the fit lads on it make it look so easy. They way they engage their core and keep their chest up and shoulder blades tight, glutes engaged, weight on heels, breathing at right time, zero rounding of back etc.

But in the real world when I go to do it, I always fook it up, I practice with just the bar and 5kg bumper plates and I still can't fully master it.

With the barbell deadlift, half the time I don't know whether I should be using or engaging my legs or my hips or my glutes at certain points in the lift. I'm probably just over thinking it, but I'm just trying to get the bloody form right and it's frustrating the sh1t outta me.

Without someone seeing it and correcting it, what you're experiencing isn't new.

chases0102

Is the Trap Bar a useful substitute to include Deadlifts into routine?

Similar to above poster, I simply cannot seem to get any handle on the Barbell deadlift...indeed, the last time I tried to include, I ended up niggling my lower back, keeping me out of the gym for about 10 days.

And so I've started using the Trap/Hex bar...and just thinking if it's a waster of effort if I'm already doing Squats.

Cheers.

Alf Veedersane

It's not the same as a squat.

But be careful of just using it to circumvent problems you had in the conventional deadlift because while there's less stress on the lower back, the poor form might ultimately result in injuries from doing trap bar deadlifts as well.

So video yourself and check your form at the very least

LuckyLloyd

from_atozinc wrote: »

Yeah. Kinda does.

Just in general though, I just don't know what is wrong with me. Specifically in regard to the standard barbell squat and deadlift. I look at loads of videos online, and think right, that's easy. the fit lads on it make it look so easy. They way they engage their core and keep their chest up and shoulder blades tight, glutes engaged, weight on heels, breathing at right time, zero rounding of back etc.

But in the real world when I go to do it, I always fook it up, I practice with just the bar and 5kg bumper plates and I still can't fully master it.

With the barbell deadlift, half the time I don't know whether I should be using or engaging my legs or my hips or my glutes at certain points in the lift. I'm probably just over thinking it, but I'm just trying to get the bloody form right and it's frustrating the sh1t outta me.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you. For many people, particularly those who sit in an office for their working life, learning how to squat and pull with consistently good form is a journey that can take a year or so of consistent practice, review and refinement.

Are you working on mobility?
Have you looked into some basic mobility assessments and tried them?
Have you had someone teach you basic form on the lifts or assess you performing them in person?

Some people, sure, they go down a gym and see someone squatting before throwing a bar on their bag and squatting full depth with an upright torso. You get naturally athletically gifted people and / or you get people who haven't ruined themselves through years of no activity / repetitive mobility diminishing activity. The rest of us need to work on it.

It's not a question of "fitness" either. Plenty of footballers / runners with excellent cardiovascular capacity who would have severe movement impingement.

Zillah

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

For many people, particularly those who sit in an office for their working life, learning how to squat and pull with consistently good form is a journey that can take a year or so of consistent practice, review and refinement.

I found this hard to believe until I went in with a newbie friend recently. He could not, no matter what we did or what I said, stop him from either leaning forward or bringing his heels up. Eventually we managed to work out that he has poor calf and hamstring flexibility, so he couldn't do the motion properly as his own body was fighting him.

He couldn't even do a baby squat without falling over because his legs didn't want to bend the way that was required.


OP, a lot of your difficulty is probably building up a good strength base. You'll get used to it quite naturally and you'll feel more in control. However, a lot of bad form can result from poor flexibility like my friend. If your legs can't bend or stretch the way they need to, you will find yourself unconsciously avoiding the part of the motion that requires that movement, and compensate elsewhere. So you might be putting too much strain on your lower back to compensate for not going deep enough with your legs, for example.

Can you comfortably enter and hold the baby squat above? If not that's an immediate sign that your flexibility is a problem.

from_atozinc

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you. For many people, particularly those who sit in an office for their working life, learning how to squat and pull with consistently good form is a journey that can take a year or so of consistent practice, review and refinement.

Are you working on mobility?
Have you looked into some basic mobility assessments and tried them?
Have you had someone teach you basic form on the lifts or assess you performing them in person?

Some people, sure, they go down a gym and see someone squatting before throwing a bar on their bag and squatting full depth with an upright torso. You get naturally athletically gifted people and / or you get people who haven't ruined themselves through years of no activity / repetitive mobility diminishing activity. The rest of us need to work on it.

It's not a question of "fitness" either. Plenty of footballers / runners with excellent cardiovascular capacity who would have severe movement impingement.

Hey. Thanks for reply and encouraging words. I suppose like everything in life, it needs a lot of practice and not me going in and expecting everything to be perfect after 5 sessions.

No is the answer to all your questions, so I must start looking at these things.

Sounds like I am one of the people that need to work on it !

Brian?

As others have said, sound like you need to fix your squat. Maybe get some one on one instruction.

I tried to teach my brother in law to squat. It was a bamboozling experience. He couldn't stay stable with an empty bar. So I tried bodyweight squats, disaster. Ended up squatting against a wall with a Swiss ball behind his back. Once he gained some strength there it was time to try the bodweight and then barbell squats. Worked fine.

from_atozinc

Zillah wrote: »

I found this hard to believe until I went in with a newbie friend recently. He could not, no matter what we did or what I said, stop him from either leaning forward or bringing his heels up. Eventually we managed to work out that he has poor calf and hamstring flexibility, so he couldn't do the motion properly as his own body was fighting him.

He couldn't even do a baby squat without falling over because his legs didn't want to bend the way that was required.


OP, a lot of your difficulty is probably building up a good strength base. You'll get used to it quite naturally and you'll feel more in control. However, a lot of bad form can result from poor flexibility like my friend. If your legs can't bend or stretch the way they need to, you will find yourself unconsciously avoiding the part of the motion that requires that movement, and compensate elsewhere. So you might be putting too much strain on your lower back to compensate for not going deep enough with your legs, for example.

Can you comfortably enter and hold the baby squat above? If not that's an immediate sign that your flexibility is a problem.

Sorry for delay.
Yeah. I can enter and hold that pose, how long are you talking about holding it for though. 20 seconds or 120 seconds ?

I have a 2 year old and 1 year old and they are always squatting, gas and inter sting to watch them do it so naturally. Their arse is about 1cm off the ground - must ask them for tips ; )

Mellor

from_atozinc wrote: »

Sorry for delay.
Yeah. I can enter and hold that pose, how long are you talking about holding it for though. 20 seconds or 120 seconds ?

Longer again than that. 5 minutes maybe, 10 minutes if you can.
It's a resting position, you should be able to hold it with every little exertion. If you find you are having to work hard hold the position, then mobility is probably not quite fully there.

How does it look? Feel free to post a picture.
Is it a full squat, or you only able to go around parallel. How is your weight distributed. Are you on your toes or flat footed.

Examples: