Raheny 5 Mile 29th Jan

Djoucer

To be fair, Raheny has a well-deserved reputation of being a fast and very competitive race. Which can be at odds with why a few hundred sign up.

I think if you pay for a race, not a fun run, it's not much to ask that you should be able to PB it if you're in the condition to do so.

And to be fair, most people will be pissed off if a dog is allowed in. It's not a park run.

That said, I do agree with you re people obsessing about flat courses.

dublin runner

Quite simply:

You either train to race or train to get or keep fit. Maybe a mixture of the two for some.

Racing is the place you compare yourselves against others, test yourself both mentally and physically as is also, a good social outing and (usually!) enjoyable. Racing also focuses the mind and training itself.

AlanPat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that, no, to be honest. It was probably said a thousand times, but being newish to all this kinda craic a lot of things were just whooshing over my head as I simultaneously admired the lovely ladies, and pondered the benefits of wearing a black bag. :pac:




I'm gonna post something now that very well may get all my windows in my house smashed, my car burned out and my legs broken, but.. surely if you're looking to get a personal best time for a set distance, it makes more sense to map a route on google earth, get up at 6am, and fly through it as best you can?

Other than perhaps the odd 'elite' runner who wants to get prize money or something, I'd have thought that a lot of the purpose of these events was to get out and do something active, and enjoy a social event that doesn't involve binge drinking until your eyes are bloodshot?

Although I, like everyone else, recorded my time, I dont think I fully understand the mindset of entering a race where you know in advance there will be literally thousands of people on the route, and aiming for a personal best time.

Again, it could well be just that I'm too new to these events and because I'm getting into jogging from a weight loss/get in shape approach, perhaps I'mm just naive, but I know that whatever 5k or 10k I sign up to next, there's gonna be a man with a dog, a woman with a buggy, a group of ladies chatting and walking 'briskly' etc. that are gonna get in the way of me getting a personal best time, so I have to say I find it hard to get annoyed at these people (as, in fairness, they're paying the same money I am and are just as entitled to the route as I am).

I just get a little baffled when I see the odd poster here and there (not in this thread, exactly, but from mooching on this forum in general) that wont sign up until they find out if a route is 'fast' and are hymming and hawwing about doing things incase their time isnt the best they've ever done.

Much like a leaflet I got at the end of the Raheny event for another race, stating it was 'Ireland's flattest race', which to me, sounds like the opposite of a challenge?

Is there something obvious that I'm missing?

I could understand if finishing in X time got you a better goodie bag or limited edition t-shirt or something like that, that you really wanted, but if you're just doing it for yourself (which seems to be the case for 99% of people?) it just seems like you're knowingly setting yourself up for a frustrating experience by signing up to any kind of a popular road race?

"a woman with a buggy" sexist?!? What about all us dads out running with the kids?!? 👀😜😜

AlanPat

AlanPat wrote: »

"a woman with a buggy" sexist?!? What about all us dads out running with the kids?!? 👀😜😜

What about all the women with dogs. My generalising can't cover everyone.

RayCun

Simple experiment for you.

Pick a 5k route. Not one you measured yourself, but the route of an existing parkrun. Go out this weekend and run it as fast as you can.

Then go back the following weekend and run it as part of a race.

You'll be faster in the race.

HelenAnne

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that, no, to be honest. It was probably said a thousand times, but being newish to all this kinda craic a lot of things were just whooshing over my head as I simultaneously admired the lovely ladies, and pondered the benefits of wearing a black bag. :pac:




I'm gonna post something now that very well may get all my windows in my house smashed, my car burned out and my legs broken, but.. surely if you're looking to get a personal best time for a set distance, it makes more sense to map a route on google earth, get up at 6am, and fly through it as best you can?

Other than perhaps the odd 'elite' runner who wants to get prize money or something, I'd have thought that a lot of the purpose of these events was to get out and do something active, and enjoy a social event that doesn't involve binge drinking until your eyes are bloodshot?

Although I, like everyone else, recorded my time, I dont think I fully understand the mindset of entering a race where you know in advance there will be literally thousands of people on the route, and aiming for a personal best time.

Again, it could well be just that I'm too new to these events and because I'm getting into jogging from a weight loss/get in shape approach, perhaps I'mm just naive, but I know that whatever 5k or 10k I sign up to next, there's gonna be a man with a dog, a woman with a buggy, a group of ladies chatting and walking 'briskly' etc. that are gonna get in the way of me getting a personal best time, so I have to say I find it hard to get annoyed at these people (as, in fairness, they're paying the same money I am and are just as entitled to the route as I am).

I just get a little baffled when I see the odd poster here and there (not in this thread, exactly, but from mooching on this forum in general) that wont sign up until they find out if a route is 'fast' and are hymming and hawwing about doing things incase their time isnt the best they've ever done.

Much like a leaflet I got at the end of the Raheny event for another race, stating it was 'Ireland's flattest race', which to me, sounds like the opposite of a challenge?

Is there something obvious that I'm missing?

I could understand if finishing in X time got you a better goodie bag or limited edition t-shirt or something like that, that you really wanted, but if you're just doing it for yourself (which seems to be the case for 99% of people?) it just seems like you're knowingly setting yourself up for a frustrating experience by signing up to any kind of a popular road race?

I want to answer your question, and I want to try to explain why some people like racing and some people don't etc etc, but tbh I can't get past your 'admiring the lovely ladies' sentence. What????

HelenAnne

HelenAnne wrote: »

I want to answer your question, and I want to try to explain why some people like racing and some people don't etc etc, but tbh I can't get past your 'admiring the lovely ladies' sentence. What????

T'was merely supposed to be a light hearted joke about the amount of women i seen in black bags on the day (something I'd never seen before, despite two of the previous runs id done being rainy).

Not intended as a 'jaysus i spent all day staring the women out of it *drool on mouth*' kinda comment :P

RayCun wrote: »

Simple experiment for you.

Pick a 5k route. Not one you measured yourself, but the route of an existing parkrun. Go out this weekend and run it as fast as you can.

Then go back the following weekend and run it as part of a race.

You'll be faster in the race.

For me, personally, i'd say you're definitely right. When I personally am running the race, I tend to zone in on someone in front of me, and i attempt to get past them. Once i get by them, I look for someone else in front of me, and I try to overtake them, too.

So for me, I'm probably running faster but Im distracting myself as I go.

I'd have thought that for people running much faster speeds (and 'racing' the race) that because you'd be so far ahead, things like that wouldn't really apply? (as there'd be a lot fewer people around you).

Or are you saying that you'll just generally try harder because it's race day and your time will be 'official'? (which, again, i can understand, but it's just something that I'd have assumed a lot of people that are more experienced wouldn't be so interested in as they've done so many races that the 'novelty' (for lack of a better term) of an official time wouldnt appeal as much?


I know I'm probably dragging the conversation out a bit, needlessly, but I do genuinely find it interesting to see what people's mentalities are on approaching these events. I know I'm personally doing it as a keep fit (or get fit, i suppose) kinda thing, so i know that if i sign up to something like this, im less likely to completely give up on the running.

Whereas the mindset of most of the posters here will be completely different. It's interesting (to me anyway - but again, new to all this).

muddypaws

Deleted User wrote: »

For me, personally, i'd say you're definitely right. When I personally am running the race, I tend to zone in on someone in front of me, and i attempt to get past them. Once i get by them, I look for someone else in front of me, and I try to overtake them, too.

So for me, I'm probably running faster but Im distracting myself as I go.

I'd have thought that for people running much faster speeds (and 'racing' the race) that because you'd be so far ahead, things like that wouldn't really apply? (as there'd be a lot fewer people around you).

I'm a new runner, have only done a couple of races, and am really not fast at all. At one event in December I ran with a friend, and we ended up running around together, and crossed the line together, getting a joint placing. We raced again on Sunday, this time I got ahead of her a little bit, and I kept pushing on, a couple of times I wanted to slow down, but, knowing she was behind me, and might catch me up, kept me going. I crossed the line before her, and waited for her to finish, and called her in, it was competitive, but friendly. But, knowing she was coming up behind me definitely pushed me on.

Bananaleaf

sideswipe wrote: »

Off topic I know but you do know you don't get colds and flu from being out in the rain?
You are far more likely to pick up a virus from being in a warm humid building with other people.
Getting out in 'non ideal' conditions is often more rewarding.
Well done on your race and not letting the 'voices' win.

I don't know then, I must be some kind of weirdo so. Sniffles started about 11am today. Taking lemsip and more 4flu tonight so hopefully doesn't linger.

I've never been officially diagnosed as having a weak immune system, but I must. I take multivitamins every day, drink approx 2litres of water and my diet is very good so I don't know what I can do to lessen my chances of getting ill. I do shield myself from the elements by not running outdoors in the rain (so granted I've no tolerance) but that is because every time I do I end up sick. Cold temps no problem.

davedanon

RayCun wrote: »

Simple experiment for you.

Pick a 5k route. Not one you measured yourself, but the route of an existing parkrun. Go out this weekend and run it as fast as you can.

Then go back the following weekend and run it as part of a race.

You'll be faster in the race.

Quite true, and in fact you can expand on the topic thus: Take the aforementioned parkrun route, and run it 4 different ways.

1) Easy training run. You'll run quite slow, and as often as not feel tired or sluggish.

2) Tempo (fast-paced) run. You're psyched for this session and possibly running with club mates. You run quick, and feel good after.

3) parkrun. it's officially only a 'timed run', and people walk, jog, push buggies etc. At the sharp end though, people race each other. You're psyched, and you have competition, so you run pretty quick, really quick, and at the end you might be pretty gassed (or even want to throw up , as I have several times), BUT:

4) Race. Nothing compares to a race. You're psyched, you have serious competition, you may have club mates, and you have something at stake. Nothing will make you run as fast and as hard: save being chased by a lion.

Whyner

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Turned up here thinking I'd be set for about 31-32 mins , got to start like about 5-10 mins before start time, I'm not used to racing outside parkrun. I was a good distance back crossed the start line with 3 mins on the clock and hit my watch, couldn't move gridlock tried not to cut across people , was looking for gaps to pass ended up running on grass at side of road slipping so went back to the road. Looked at watch and was doing 5:30 per km after 500 metres ran stupidly hard on footpaths to get down to 4:28 for first km but started to feel I'd pushed too hard , tried to settle into a rhythm and target 4min Kim's was doing fine till turning onto howth road where I was frustrated again stick behind people nonwhere to move , after turning off the howth road I found some pace to run a sub 4 km but it never opened up for long and I was annoyed at constantly meeting runners and trying to navigate around them . All the accelerating and slowing was starting to take its toll and I didn't feel like pushing when I had a bit of space. It never really opened up that much though . Got in at 34:30ish by my watch , wasn't happy at all with time , I understand it can be tough to organise these races but sub 30 sub 35 sub 40 pens be a big addition to an otherwise flawless race , I did walk up the front at start and could have stood in beside the club guys in singlets but didnt want to be in the way , in hindsight I'll probably go the front in future and let others pass me by instead of vice Versa. Everything else was super especially the goody bag ! Support was brilliant fair play to people coming out in the rain .

Same as me

RayCun

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd have thought that for people running much faster speeds (and 'racing' the race) that because you'd be so far ahead, things like that wouldn't really apply? (as there'd be a lot fewer people around you).

You have fewer people around you, but they are much harder to beat.

On Sunday, Mark Christie beat Mick Clohissey by a few seconds to win the race, I doubt either would have run as fast without the other there, and certainly not in a training run.

rainbow kirby

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, it could well be just that I'm too new to these events and because I'm getting into jogging from a weight loss/get in shape approach, perhaps I'mm just naive, but I know that whatever 5k or 10k I sign up to next, there's gonna be a man with a dog, a woman with a buggy, a group of ladies chatting and walking 'briskly' etc. that are gonna get in the way of me getting a personal best time, so I have to say I find it hard to get annoyed at these people (as, in fairness, they're paying the same money I am and are just as entitled to the route as I am).

What's the problem with buggy runners? Most of them are experienced runners who want to train and race with their young children and really don't fit with the stereotype that you're trying to get at here.

rainbow kirby

rainbow kirby wrote: »

What's the problem with buggy runners? Most of them are experienced runners who want to train and race with their young children and really don't fit with the stereotype that you're trying to get at here.

I didn't at any point say I had any problem with buggy runners? Seems like you've cherry picked the part that you opted to get annoyed at and ignored the latter part where I clearly state I have no issue whatsoever with anyone pushing a buggy?

(for what it's worth I've been outrun by buggy pushers, people with dogs etc and don't pass any remarks. it's not me who has been complaining about people getting in my way, such has been the general tone of the thread for the last few pages)

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't at any point say I had any problem with buggy runners? Seems like you've cherry picked the part that you opted to get annoyed at and ignored the latter part where I clearly state I have no issue whatsoever with anyone pushing a buggy?

(for what it's worth I've been outrun by buggy pushers, people with dogs etc and don't pass any remarks. it's not me who has been complaining about people getting in my way, such has been the general tone of the thread for the last few pages)

I think you have miss understood the meaning of racing.

Alot of people will go out to get a pb in race, we train hard all year to do this and because we love it. But its annoying when people start a race too far up the start line when they know they can't run at that pace.

Basically people should have some manners and start from the correct area.

The Davestator

My first time doing Raheny and although I enjoyed it, I don't really get what all the fuss is about.

Lovely people and a nice goody bag. As well as an excellent number collection operation.

However, that route is simply not capable of hosting a race this large. Unless you had your chest on the tape, you were going to get stuck behind hundreds or thousands of people. Even when you found your pace, it was still very congested and resulted in people on paths and on the wrong side of the traffic cones.

Nice to have a little target for the end of Jan, but I think some form of self policed time pens would work well. (like Jingle bells 5 k in the park in December)

diego_b

davedanon wrote: »

Quite true, and in fact you can expand on the topic thus: Take the aforementioned parkrun route, and run it 4 different ways.

1) Easy training run. You'll run quite slow, and as often as not feel tired or sluggish.

2) Tempo (fast-paced) run. You're psyched for this session and possibly running with club mates. You run quick, and feel good after.

3) parkrun. it's officially only a 'timed run', and people walk, jog, push buggies etc. At the sharp end though, people race each other. You're psyched, and you have competition, so you run pretty quick, really quick, and at the end you might be pretty gassed (or even want to throw up , as I have several times), BUT:

4) Race. Nothing compares to a race. You're psyched, you have serious competition, you may have club mates, and you have something at stake. Nothing will make you run as fast and as hard: save being chased by a lion.

Especially if the lion is in for the same age category as you....

100% races all the way for your best times, I know a few people that set personal bests in training and try to tell them nicely would you ever pick a race and you'd really surprise yourself.

ooter

While I agree that races are best for running fast times I did run my 10k pb in a training run, I was in great shape at the time and have often wondered since how much more I could've shaved off that time if I'd entered a 10k race.

Murph_D

How did you measure the 10k? Garmin?

How can you be sure that PB isn't for 9.9 or 9.8k?

ooter

Murph_D wrote: »

How did you measure the 10k? Garmin?

How can you be sure that PB isn't for 9.9 or 9.8k?

Yes Garmin but I did it over the GIR course in the phoenix park so I'd say it was fairly accurate.

davedanon

The Davestator wrote: »

Even when you found your pace, it was still very congested and resulted in people on paths and on the wrong side of the traffic cones.

They weren't being forced to do that. It was entirely by choice. I've done this race half a dozen times and never had a problem staying on the course and off the path altogether (apart from Sybil Hill corner this year, where it was mandated)

average_runner

davedanon wrote: »

They weren't being forced to do that. It was entirely by choice. I've done this race half a dozen times and never had a problem staying on the course and off the path altogether (apart from Sybil Hill corner this year, where it was mandated)

Actually you were forced to do that if you wanted to keep your pace. Started about 20 rows from the front, way too many idiots up there and then blocked that road.


It's a good race for the time of year, but would never be a target race due to the narrow course and how it's handled

davedanon

average_runner wrote: »

Actually you were forced to do that if you wanted to keep your pace. Started about 20 rows from the front, way too many idiots up there and then blocked that road.


It's a good race for the time of year, but would never be a target race due to the narrow course and how it's handled

20 rows sounds a lot, although we went around the side at about 2.50pm, got to the front, hopped the barrier and went about 5-10ft back from the tape. By the time the elites finished their strides we would have been about that far back, I'd say. My starting target pace was roughly 6.30 per mile. Actual first mile was 6.42, and I had no significant baulking. Were you further back again, would you say?

The Davestator

average_runner wrote: »

Actually you were forced to do that if you wanted to keep your pace. Started about 20 rows from the front, way too many idiots up there and then blocked that road.


It's a good race for the time of year, but would never be a target race due to the narrow course and how it's handled

If I'm doing it again, this will certainly be my approach.

average_runner

davedanon wrote: »

20 rows sounds a lot, although we went around the side at about 2.50pm, got to the front, hopped the barrier and went about 5-10ft back from the tape. By the time the elites finished their strides we would have been about that far back, I'd say. My starting target pace was roughly 6.30 per mile. Actual first mile was 6.42, and I had no significant baulking. Were you further back again, would you say?

I could see the elites warming up no problem. 20 rows or a little bit less is not much. About right where I should be. Was running an average of 4:07 per km for the race.

davedanon

average_runner wrote: »

Was running an average of 4:07 per km for the race.

Similar enough pace to mine then.

racheljev

Just catching up on Sunday's race. Better day out than expected for me, managed to come in just under 40 mins despite no training and the first half of a root canal a few days earlier. (Could have been a few seconds quicker but made my usual mistake of starting too far back, so had a good bit of congestion for quite a while.) Great organisation as ever. I'm delighted route is still leaving out Watermill Road hill at the end. Goody bag went down a treat with the kids - they divided the whole lot between them but left me the protein bar "because no one else wants it" :rolleyes: One tiny quibble: who's bright idea was it to add the race category to the number? I was feeling bad enough about changing categories and running my first F45 race, and there is was, printed in huge* font on my number. As if I needed reminding. Miserable sods.

*may not have been huge font, may be overreacting ever so slightly

HelenAnne

racheljev wrote: »

Just catching up on Sunday's race. Better day out than expected for me, managed to come in just under 40 mins despite no training and the first half of a root canal a few days earlier. (Could have been a few seconds quicker but made my usual mistake of starting too far back, so had a good bit of congestion for quite a while.) Great organisation as ever. I'm delighted route is still leaving out Watermill Road hill at the end. Goody bag went down a treat with the kids - they divided the whole lot between them but left me the protein bar "because no one else wants it" :rolleyes: One tiny quibble: who's bright idea was it to add the race category to the number? I was feeling bad enough about changing categories and running my first F45 race, and there is was, printed in huge* font on my number. As if I needed reminding. Miserable sods.

*may not have been huge font, may be overreacting ever so slightly

At least they don't put our ages in huge numbers on our backs like at the open XC!

Ceekay

Video just past the 1 mile mark from Sunday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md94ybC6qgA&t=131s

HelenAnne

Ceekay wrote: »

Video just past the 1 mile mark from Sunday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md94ybC6qgA&t=131s

Ha! at about 2.30 I can see my self doing my 'squeezing up the inside' move that I mentioned in my report :-)

Also, I can see I started too far back -- I saw literally about 10 clubmates ahead of me in that video who I finished a bit ahead of!

Thanks! Great to see!