Why will the Govt not hold an "Irexit" referendum?

dxhound2005

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Irexit would be a disaster because this is not a serious nation, and the Irish are not a serious people. Unfortunately.

Foreigners do not understand us. We are a serious people.

Infini

The Irexit party reeks of a Brexiteer Front Group IMO. GTFO of our country lads your BS isnt gonna fly here were not interested in wrecking our country unlike your idiot friends over there.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Irexit would be a disaster because this is not a serious nation, and the Irish are not a serious people. Unfortunately.

Ireland is one of the wealthiest and most prosperous nations on earth.

Junkyard Tom

This Irish Nationalist is a proud EUnionist

Kermit.de.frog

They look a bit loopy

Lefty Bicek

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Foreigners do not understand us. We are a serious people.

I'm Irish, and I disagree with you.

My statement was a paraphrase of a quote from, (I stand to be corrected) the Irish economist, Colm McCarthy.

Kermit.de.frog

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I'm Irish, and I disagree with you.

My statement was a paraphrase of a quote from, (I stand to be corrected) the Irish economist, Colm McCarthy.

Don't read the Sunday Independent.

Lefty Bicek

Infini wrote: »

The Irexit party reeks of a Brexiteer Front Group IMO. GTFO of our country lads your BS isnt gonna fly here were not interested in wrecking our country unlike your idiot friends over there.

I hope you were as loudly affronted when the ECB and our 'European partners' stuffed us for debts that were not ours. For just one example.

But I doubt it.

Why would Brexiteers need a front group after the fact of Brexit ?

Lefty Bicek

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't read the Sunday Independent.

Neither do I.

Sal Butamol

Del.Monte wrote: »

How is wanting proper border controls racist?

It is to liberal lefty idiots that want to extend an open invitation to millions of Africans and Middle Easterners to flood into Ireland unchecked.

dxhound2005

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I'm Irish, and I disagree with you.

My statement was a paraphrase of a quote from, (I stand to be corrected) the Irish economist, Colm McCarthy.

The internet says you're Polish.

Capt'n Midnight

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Possibly. But Ireland rejoining would in itself reduce the likelyhood of Scotland leaving. The 26 would add to the counterweight to England, and set the template for genuine devolved government. Scotland would be delighted to see the republic unite the islands.

At the 2015 General Election out of the 650 seats in Westmister just a single MP of the main "National UK" parties was elected in Scotland and none from Northern Ireland.

The answer to the West Lothian question is that until recently it was typically a Tory or Labour majority government so Scottish votes didn't matter. Now with the SNP taking up most of the seats they still don't.

In theory Irish MPs could hold the balance, but Scotland has shown this isn't the case. Tory and Labour are too from centre for our parties. And either party could play us off against the SNP or Lib Dems to get that balance. So no we'd have no real power there.

Oddly enough our PR system means the DUP would be more likely to hold the balance of power here because more parties to deal with, bad and all as they are they aren't SF. There is also the payback due from the Tories when they are no longer needed. That will be popcorn time.

Lefty Bicek

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Ireland is one of the wealthiest and most prosperous nations on earth.

Indeed. Both the housing and health situations tend to take a little of the sheen from that decisive position of yours.

Apart from that - real prosperity comes from trade, not the kind of grand-scale welfare that we have 'enjoyed'.

While the majority of people may want to accept sweeties from strangers, we aren't all mindless consumers.

Irish Kings

Well after seeing what the EU crats have done to the UK, no other member state can ever leave now.

dxhound2005

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Indeed. Both the housing and health situations tend to take a little of the sheen from that decisive position of yours.

Apart from that - real prosperity comes from trade, not the kind of grand-scale welfare that we have 'enjoyed'.

While the majority of people may want to accept sweeties from strangers, we aren't all mindless consumers.

You're fond of the sweeties. You are Irish, and an extremely serious person. I am Irish and I am a serious person. You need to revise your statement about the Irish people not being serious.

Lefty Bicek

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The internet says you're Polish.

Is that supposed to be somehow witty ?

Lefty Bicek

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You're fond of the sweeties. You are Irish, and an extremely serious person. I am Irish and I am a serious person. You need to revise your statement about the Irish people not being serious.

Why not recognise the generality for what it was, and treat it as such ?

Use your common sense, and allow others to use theirs.

dxhound2005

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Why not recognise the generality for what it was, and treat it as such ?

Use your common sense, and allow others to use theirs.

Is this supposed to be common sense?

Nevertheless, the EU is a rotten corrupt empire and I hope I live to see three things -

1. Ireland populated by people who don't childishly need the approval, or economic sweeties of our so-called 'European partners'.

2. The UK prospering in consequence of Brexit.

3. The EU project fail.

Lefty Bicek

RobertKK wrote: »

Irexit is aligning with the UK, Theresa May last year said to the Donald Tuskr that Irish concerns should be ignored as the UK is a far more important country.
Tusk immediately put a stop to that talk and told her to sort out her problems with Ireland Bit stupid of Theresa given the UK is leaving.


https://twitter.com/cellsatwork/status/994667150316130315

I am more than happy being an Irish and European Union citizen. We are stronger working together and it brings so many benefits.

The very link that you attached - highlighted - says...

'...one country cannot hold up progress...'

Yet you translated that as '...Irish concerns should be ignored...'

Who are you trying to kid ?

storker

Harika wrote: »

. So if you still think Ireland should vote for that, great, I have some magic beans to sell.

A few years ago I was reading "Jack and the Beanstalk" to my daughter, but I couldn't get past the bit where Jack sells the cow for the magic beans because there was something about his face in the book's illustration that cracked me up...the look of gormlessness and eejitry. The very idea that someone could be so stupid was just too funny, it was so ridiculous, and I couldn't continue reading for laughing.

And a few years later came the Brexit referendum...

rgunning

Irexit would solve an extremely difficult problem that Britain manufactured by itself, one which no one is served by solving for them. If MI5/6 is not involved in this, they really should be.

So who would best be served by Irexit? My money is on a government who made a deal with the DUP without thinking of the consequences.

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I hope you were as loudly affronted when the ECB and our 'European partners' stuffed us for debts that were not ours. For just one example.

But I doubt it.

Why would Brexiteers need a front group after the fact of Brexit ?

Lefty Bicek

rgunning wrote: »

Irexit would solve an extremely difficult problem that Britain manufactured by itself, one which no one is served by solving for them. If MI5/6 is not involved in this, they really should be.

So who would best be served by Irexit? My money is on a government who made a deal with the DUP without thinking of the consequences.

I can see a point of view where the British government over the last few years have been remarkably stupid and inept. Amazingly so. And unthinking of the consequences of their actions.

I can't see any mileage for the Sir Humphrey Appleby's in even thinking Irexit a feasible escape route out of the border issue.

builder007

We should stay in the EU until we are united then probably the best thing united Ireland should do is to exit. It is as simple as that. The EU exists so that German exporters can continue to do so... they fund the the EU and in return they get more efficient export. We should be the same.... We fund the EU because we are more likely unite as a part of the EU. Once.that is done GOOD BYE Brussels. You were any a means to an end!


vote exit

Lefty Bicek

Sal Butamol wrote: »

It is to liberal lefty idiots that want to extend an open invitation to millions of Africans and Middle Easterners to flood into Ireland unchecked.

Yet people are crying out to be led by these neurotic clowns...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kgQF5rvpY0

Seth Brundle

Irish Kings wrote: »

Well after seeing what the EU crats have done to the UK, no other member state can ever leave now.

What exactly have the "EU crats" done to the UK?

Lefty Bicek

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The Republic of Ireland, unfortunately, is sleep walking into a Brexit fiasco, and seriously underestimating the damage the cataclysmic meteor hurtling towards it that is Brexit, will do. Just because Brexit is a UK decision, and ostensibly a mega change to only their position, does not mean the 26 can sail blithely on unaffected. Ireland must try to buffer this impact as much as possible. The mood is changing, as more and more understand this, and realise how, paradoxically, and Irexit could be the best of a bad set of options available to it. While privately, Dail and civil service are fully aware of this, taking the discussion to a national, public forum is proving difficult, with much of the population still unable to break free from a blinkered little-Irelander perspective. But there are positive signs this is slowly being eroded.

Explain that please ?

Balanadan

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Captain Red Beard

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it would be idiotic.

/thread

Is there any way to thank this post twice?

Lefty Bicek

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

Is there any way to thank this post twice?

Why not just buy him a Mercedes instead ?

Actions speak louder than words, and your European masters partners will be pleased.

Lefty Bicek

davedanon wrote: »

This is utterly hilarious. It's been edited, yet it's littered with more spelling and grammatical mistakes than I can count.

The term 'Grammar Nazi' seems even more apposite than usual...

Strazdas

A David Cameron style political stunt of a referendum wouldn't even be possible under the Irish Constitution.

The government would have to decide to leave the EU and put that decision to the electorate for ratification.

davedanon

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

The term 'Grammar Nazi' seems even more apposite than usual...

Two points: AH seems to be infested with actual Nazis, and, I hate misspelling but none more than the misspelling of the bigoted, one of which seems to beget the other, but I can't decide which.

Lefty Bicek

davedanon wrote: »

Two points: AH seems to be infested with actual Nazis, and, I hate misspelling but none more than the misspelling of the bigoted, one of which seems to beget the other, but I can't decide which.

Trying too hard there, sunshine.

Time better sent on your basic numeracy perhaps ?

fash

builder007 wrote: »

We should stay in the EU until we are united then probably the best thing united Ireland should do is to exit. It is as simple as that.

Why? To "take back control" and give it to the Brits and whatever remains (whatever the Brits don't want) to the bunch of incompetents we have?

builder007 wrote: »

The EU exists so that German exporters can continue to do so... they fund the the EU and in return they get more efficient export. We should be the same....

so you are accept that being in EU is economically the only sane choice? And that outside the EU, our exporting base ( all those American tech and pharmaceutical companies) that came here to be in the EU, gave Ireland at least a high "income" (even if the Irish state has never used this good fortune to invest in infrastructure), supporting the ridiculously high social welfare and public sector costs as well as the majority of high paid private sector jobs, would vanish? And that instead we should focus on improving their ability to export from within the EU?

builder007 wrote: »

We fund the EU because we are more likely unite as a part of the EU. Once.that is done GOOD BUY Brussels buuerocrats. You were any a means to an end!

In the EU, Ireland has a voice and a say (as can be seen in the current negotiations with the UK). Outside the EU, we lose the entire economy and become merely a colony for the UK to exploit.

Seriously, what sort of moron (besides a troll, or someone working for external agents) can possibly think that there are any advantages to leaving the EU?

Cabaal

Irish Kings wrote: »

Well after seeing what the EU crats have done to the UK, no other member state can ever leave now.

The UK has done all of what has happened to itself...however if you want to point out what the EU have done to the UK then by all means give a few examples?

If you have people that lie to the public and then the public vote for that lie then what else do you expect to happen?

The public were told it would be easy, straight forward,. things would be better etc. Nobody ever told them about food shortages etc....and before you claim food shortages won't happen then ask yourself why is the UK planning for them? :pac:

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because it would be idiotic.

/thread

Listening to the will of the people you serve is idiotic??

super_furry

weldoninhio wrote: »

Listening to the will of the people you serve is idiotic??

No, listening to fringe lunatics who don't in any way represent the will of the people is idiotic.

https://twitter.com/dfatirl/status/993838618606211072

Coillte_Bhoy

weldoninhio wrote: »

Listening to the will of the people you serve is idiotic??

There is no 'will' among the people to leave the EU

The Rape of Lucretia

super_furry wrote: »

No, listening to fringe lunatics who don't in any way represent the will of the people is idiotic.

Answers can be skewed though depending on the detail of the question asked, and the understanding of it of those asked.

Have they stats on how many people would be in favour, if Brexit indeed goes ahead, would be in favour of the Republic leaving the EU and Brejoining ?
A lot of people are clinging to an itll-be-all-right-on-the-night view of the impact of Brexit on the south, or even think there will be no price to pay, financially, politically, and in the integration and cooperation of all people on the island of Ireland.

Cabaal

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Answers can be skewed though depending on the detail of the question asked, and the understanding of it of those asked.

Have they stats on how many people would be in favour, if Brexit indeed goes ahead, would be in favour of the Republic leaving the EU and Brejoining ?
.

No,
if you want to go back to the ****e old days of Ireland being heavily dependent on the UK for our economy like in the 40's-70's then there's something seriously wrong with your thinking.

A lot of people are clinging to an itll-be-all-right-on-the-night view of the impact of Brexit on the south, or even think there will be no price to pay, financially, politically, and in the integration and cooperation of all people on the island of Ireland.

errr, very few people think they'll be no impact on Ireland due to the clusterf**k that is Brexit,
We all know they'll be some sort of implications for Ireland, but unlike the UK we can atleast continue to use EU trade agreements etc. WE will also benefit from company's pulling out of the UK and looking for new bases....as has happened already,.


Also:

Brejoining

Honestly, I can't roll eye enough at such a word

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ArchXStanton

Be interesting to see a poll if the majority of people would want Ireland to be part of an EU superstate... The EU always reminded me of those little green fellas in Fraggle rock...the dozers,while everyone else was going around with their lives thinking the EU was concerning itself with the regulating of shower heads and the likes...they were constructing their empire...

super_furry

"Brejoining"? Christ, I've heard it all now. Let's put Nelson's Column back up, stick a statue of Maggie Thatcher on the top and gather around for a good belt of God Save the Queen. Sure we can even rename the GPO to the Royal Post Office.

dxhound2005

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Answers can be skewed though depending on the detail of the question asked, and the understanding of it of those asked.

Now that the UK people know more about the detail, surveys show that they would vote Remain. They should have been given all the details in the question, not just this nonsense.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Irish Kings

Cabaal wrote: »

The UK has done all of what has happened to itself...however if you want to point out what the EU have done to the UK then by all means give a few examples?

If you have people that lie to the public and then the public vote for that lie then what else do you expect to happen?

The public were told it would be easy, straight forward,. things would be better etc. Nobody ever told them about food shortages etc....and before you claim food shortages won't happen then ask yourself why is the UK planning for them? :pac:

You don't get what's going on do you, or want to get it.
I'm not anti EU, I'm pro EU.
But I'm also pro democratic decision and democratic self determination, even if I don't always personally agree with what a majority may have voted for.
Ireland only got back on it's feet when the IMF got rid of Irish politicians and ran it.
I think Britain and Ireland should remain in the EU, however the EU have now made it effectively impossible and economic suicide if anyone dare challenge or leave the EU. This is not democracy.
Gloating at Britian's current EU problems is like cutting off our nose to spite our faces.

Capt'n Midnight

Sal Butamol wrote: »

It is to liberal lefty idiots that want to extend an open invitation to millions of Africans and Middle Easterners to flood into Ireland unchecked.

The only free movement is between the EU 27 and and three EEA EFTA States – Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. Switzerland is still to sort it out.

Even then unless you have the means to support yourself after three months you can be sent home. That's totally down to local governments applying the existing laws.

For anyone outside the EU or EFTA, again its all down to the local government applying whatever laws it likes.

In Ireland's case the Common Travel Area predates the EU. But there's already controls on the airports so IF the UK go fully nuts and insist on a hard border with passport controls up north we might as well join Schengen.

Cabaal

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Be interesting to see a poll if the majority of people would want Ireland to be part of an EU superstate... The EU always reminded me of those little green fellas in Fraggle rock...the dozers,while everyone else was going around with their lives thinking the EU was concerning itself with the regulating of shower heads and the likes...they were constructing their empire...

ah yeah those regulations that we don#'t benefit from :rolleyes:
..like EU roaming, cleaner water/air, better protection for wildlife, better safety standards with food, toys etc. You know, all the things Ireland is incapable of doing on its own in a decent way.

It's all fine claiming Ireland will do stuff on its own, but the reality shows that without the EU we'd still have most of the rivers in Ireland with raw sewage still being pumped into them. As it is the EU is forcing to clean up our act on this sewage because subsequent governments don't take it seriously.

If we can't clean up some rivers how do you honestly think we are capable of doing bigger stuff?

Annasopra

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland would be committing sheer economic suicide if it opted to leave the EU.

Anyone with half a brain cell can see that EU membership completely transformed this country economically and socially and modernised our infrastructure vastly since joining 45 years ago.

In 1973 we had just begun to emerge from the dark days of DeValera's backward, inward looking, church oppressor poor as dirt backwater, thanks to the vision of civil servants like TK Whittaker and 1960s Taoiseach Sean Lemass. But we were still quite poor and underdeveloped by Western standards in 1973, our infrastructure was abysmal and educational attainment was still poor.

The 80s was a bad decade of setbacks and stunted growth and loss of non competitive (formerly protected) industry but since the early 1990s the benefits of EU membership are visible for all to see. A wealthy society, a much more educated, travelled and empowered populace, a world class motorway system , women and LGBT attaining equal rights and a church being out rightly into its place.

Without EU membership, this would alm have hapoened at a much slower pace, and some key ecomonic changes as a result of our membership of the single market would never have happened at all.

Only the crackpots want IREXIT.

This party has its fair share of crackpots with their anti choice anti women anti lgbt agendas. Paddy Manning, Hermann Kelly, Kate Bopp etc

dxhound2005

Irish Kings wrote: »

You don't get it do you. I'm not anti EU, I'm pro EU. Ireland only got back on it's feet when the IMF got rid of Irish politicians and ran it.
I think Britain and Ireland should remain in the EU, however the EU have now made it effectively impossible and economic suicide if anyone dare challenge or leave the EU. This is not democracy.

That is very much democracy. There is nothing stopping Italy or Poland or Ireland leaving. The EU is a community of nations, not some entity that can override democracy.

Irish Kings

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is very much democracy. There is nothing stopping Italy or Poland or Ireland leaving. The EU is a community of nations, not some entity that can override democracy.

In theory only. In practice, no country is going to attempt to leave again, (even if they wanted / needed to), after watching the bullying of Britain's democratic decision.
(whether we agree with it or not (and I don't agree with Britain's decision to leave) if we don't respect and facilitate genuine democratic decisions, then democracy has just become a sham)
If you think that's good for the EU, then think again.

The Rape of Lucretia

super_furry wrote: »

"Brejoining"? Christ, I've heard it all now. Let's put Nelson's Column back up, stick a statue of Maggie Thatcher on the top and gather around for a good belt of God Save the Queen. Sure we can even rename the GPO to the Royal Post Office.

Sorry, Brejoining, Breunion - no point getting hung up on words Its the issue that is important here. And no, this is not turning back the clock - such examples are as deceitful, provocative and as unhelpful to a proper discussion as the £350M bus, Turkey joining the EU, etc.
There is a lot to be said for the monarchy though - its not that the present presidential system in the republic is such a essential pillar of its democracy. The next election is shaping up to be no more than a once in seven year bonus prize for the media peacocks wanting to try their hand at a state sponsored celebrity post.