**Nov 2016 Teacher Dispute / See post 1 for Warning **

PowerToWait

Deleted User wrote: »

We already attract Nurses and doctors from around the world, why would Teaching be any different?

Ah here, you should probably go back to school yourself for a wee bit.

Member warned

Connor2016

The government infuriated me coming on saying that all other public sector bodies do their croke park hours. IMPACT further came on sprouting something which further infuriated me. In my experience SNA's do not do their 72 croke park hours - I am just after doing up a separate post in relation to this. Fair is fair.

worseforwear

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? Do you think you are better than Teachers from the UK or other parts of Europe?

We already attract Nurses and doctors from around the world, why would Teaching be any different?

Its not that, but i'm just wondering when all the existing teachers are sacked, where are all the new recruits going to find accommodation?
Or better still, maybe send all the students to the uk and europe and close the schools to save on heat and light while your at it.

implausible

implausible wrote: »

I don't really know how you can say that while coming on here and showing disdain for the people who provide that education. Comparing to creche workers or any other profession, public or private, is comparing apples and oranges. Suggesting importing cheaper labour suggests that you regard education as another type of industry. Is your child a product on a conveyer belt, there to be shaped by general operatives who will fill him/her with information? Such an attitude does not suggest having value for education.

I value my child's education that's a given, however right now the ASTI teachers are not valuing the education of children with their actions.

I doubt for one minute a teacher in the UK or any other part of the world would be any less caring or valuable than an Irish teacher, but if Irish ASTI teachers want to continue destroying my child's education then I have no problems with the government replacing them with suitable teachers from elsewhere. At the end of the day its about whats best for My Child, ASTI Teachers are not giving whats best for my child.

As for Creche workers, they are also qualified workers, I except they are not as qualified as a Secondary school teacher but qualified all the same.

Unfortunately despite them being educators of children too most creches start on minimum wage, have no extra payments and work far long hours. They equally look after children in supervision and substitution without any extra. In short, You have it good, yes its not perfect, but life very seldom is, you should be happy with what you have whilst the country is still recovering.

PowerToWait

PowerToWait wrote: »

Ah here, you should probably go back to school yourself for a wee bit.

Why?

worseforwear

worseforwear wrote: »

Its not that, but i'm just wondering when all the existing teachers are sacked, where are all the new recruits going to find accommodation?
Or better still, maybe send all the students to the uk and europe and close the schools to save on heat and light while your at it.

The same place that everyone has to find accommodation?

Im sorry but you are not alone in Ireland as the only people who need accommodation, imagine someone working on minimum wage looking for accommodation, how do they cope?

I just cant fathom where ASTI teachers beleive the money is going to come from to pay these demands, every Public sector Union is going to come with the begging bowl.

Teachers are far from stupid, so why then knowing what the countries finances are, where do you think more money can be found?

Over the next three years this country has to repay over 50 Billion Euro to bond holders, we still have a budget deficit and we are still borrowing money to stay afloat.

If Brexit or the Euro collapses we will be toast, and with nearly 200 Billion worth of debt already around our necks it will be much worse than 2008 and hard choices will have to be made and that would mean public sector job loses this time.

Just look at our finances and tell me where you expect this extra money to come from, what services do you want to see cut to find the extra money for your demands?

Inspector Coptoor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just cant fathom where ASTI teachers beleive the money is going to come from to pay these demands, every Public sector Union is going to come with the begging bowl.

Teachers are far from stupid, so why then knowing what the countries finances are, where do you think more money can be found?

Over the next three years this country has to repay over 50 Billion Euro to bond holders, we still have a budget deficit and we are still borrowing money to stay afloat.

If Brexit or the Euro collapses we will be toast, and with nearly 200 Billion worth of debt already around our necks it will be much worse than 2008 and hard choices will have to be made and that would mean public sector job loses this time.

Just look at our finances and tell me where you expect this extra money to come from, what services do you want to see cut to find the extra money for your demands?

Do the Gardai care where their extra €50M comes from?

A "deal" they are likely to reject as members on the ground think an average increase of €35 a week is crap.

Nurses voting to strike on Nov 24th.
I wonder what way that will go.

If, as a government, you keep banging a recovery drum and tell people they have been good boys and girls who did their part during the austerity years, you can't be surprised when they come looking for some of the cake.

Under the LRA, no new TD is on a lower wage than any other TD.

TDs are in line for an extra €5k in "pay restoration".

Ministers were in line for an extra €18k in pay restoration so the average monster was in line for €23k in pay restoration, an amount so obscene Noonan and Donoghue has to ask all the monisters to forego the extra €18k.

I notice the TDs haven't given up the €5k mind you.

Powerhouse

worseforwear wrote: »

When the ASTI have created this problem for their members, I don't think they should be looking to others to solve it, particularly when it is within their gift to solve it themselves.

It's odd that you think the ASTI and "their members" are somehow different entities. All the union executive is doing is advocating what its members voted for. Presumably if it was within the "union's gift" to solve "the problem" then they would pay its members for S&S and have done with it. Not sure they have such power though.

Iused2likebusts

Deleted User wrote: »

I just cant fathom where ASTI teachers beleive the money is going to come from to pay these demands, every Public sector Union is going to come with the begging bowl.

Teachers are far from stupid, so why then knowing what the countries finances are, where do you think more money can be found?

Over the next three years this country has to repay over 50 Billion Euro to bond holders, we still have a budget deficit and we are still borrowing money to stay afloat.

If Brexit or the Euro collapses we will be toast, and with nearly 200 Billion worth of debt already around our necks it will be much worse than 2008 and hard choices will have to be made and that would mean public sector job loses this time.

Just look at our finances and tell me where you expect this extra money to come from, what services do you want to see cut to find the extra money for your demands?

The money is there for the S & S members of another union are already getting this money its a net cost of approx 6 euro a week. The asti are looking for a timeline on when new entrants can expect to get their pay restored. We are also currently saving the government money by not doing the CP hours.

implausible

Deleted User wrote:

I doubt for one minute a teacher in the UK or any other part of the world would be any less caring or valuable than an Irish teacher, but if Irish ASTI teachers want to continue destroying my child's education then I have no problems with the government replacing them with suitable teachers from elsewhere. At the end of the day its about whats best for My Child, ASTI Teachers are not giving whats best for my child.

And in the UK, they cannot keep teachers, indeed they come here to recruit them. I'm sure someone has the figures handy, but there it a very high percentage not staying in the job beyond 5 years.

Deleted User wrote:

As for Creche workers, they are also qualified workers, I except they are not as qualified as a Secondary school teacher but qualified all the same.

Deleted User wrote:

Unfortunately despite them being educators of children too most creches start on minimum wage, have no extra payments and work far long hours. They equally look after children in supervision and substitution without any extra. In short, You have it good, yes its not perfect, but life very seldom is, you should be happy with what you have whilst the country is still recovering.

The pay for early childhood educators is criminal, but that does not justify a race to the bottom. Apples and oranges again but I'll bite - those providing the free preschool year teach for one or two 3 hour stints per day with 1 or 2 groups of children of the same age with an adult to child ratio of 1:10 and s/s doesn't come into it.

Should they be paid more? Yes.

Does that mean a teacher supervising 12-18 year olds in a ratio that can be 1:50 should not be paid for it at all? No. (Especially when that teacher did it for free for a few years in the bad times, was promised that they would be paid again this Sept and now find that the Govt has reneged on the deal).

km79

Confirmed

solerina

All open tomorrow....just on the news

Inspector Coptoor

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Do the Gardai care where their extra €50M comes from?

A "deal" they are likely to reject as members on the ground think an average increase of €35 a week is crap.

Nurses voting to strike on Nov 24th.
I wonder what way that will go.

If, as a government, you keep banging a recovery drum and tell people they have been good boys and girls who did their part during the austerity years, you can't be surprised when they come looking for some of the cake.

Under the LRA, no new TD is on a lower wage than any other TD.

TDs are in line for an extra €5k in "pay restoration".

Ministers were in line for an extra €18k in pay restoration so the average monster was in line for €23k in pay restoration, an amount so obscene Noonan and Donoghue has to ask all the monisters to forego the extra €18k.

I notice the TDs haven't given up the €5k mind you.

In short you dont care where the money comes from?

A very short sighted approach that is similar to how this country went bust to begin with.

For the record the Gardai shouldn't have been paid extra, but its a more complicated issue when the guardians of law and order decided they will no longer protect the citizens. The government had no choice otherwise it would have been open season for criminals and law breakers.

As for TD salaries increases, that was for all public servants was it not? However I do agree they shouldn't have got extra either.

Villain

Action suspended, WRC to get involved now

worseforwear

At Last !!! common sense prevails

km79

Villain wrote: »

Action suspended, WRC to get involved now

I hope / assume in return pay deductions will be suspended

Mardy Bum

Deleted User wrote: »

worseforwear wrote: »

Its not that, but i'm just wondering when all the existing teachers are sacked, where are all the new recruits going to find accommodation?
Or better still, maybe send all the students to the uk and europe and close the schools to save on heat and light while your at it.

The same place that everyone has to find accommodation?

Im sorry but you are not alone in Ireland as the only people who need accommodation, imagine someone working on minimum wage looking for accommodation, how do they cope?

It takes a Master's degree now to become a teacher. This costs 12k. It also takes at least 5 years of college. How much does it cost to qualify to work in the corner shop and how much experience does one need?

Now if you cannot see the different skill sets and qualifications involved in attaining a minimum wage job and teaching then there is little anyone here can help clarify for you.

If you are worried about your child encourage them to do exam papers and practise their exam timing in subjects like English and history. Studyclix is a very handy website as well.

Relatively speaking recently qualified Irish teachers are paid less than the majority of our OECD counterparts according to recent studies.

Villain

I can't see how WRC or LC can give them anything outside Lansdowne so sounds like ASTI have begun the walk back down the hill!

solerina

I hope this doesn't mean that we have lost a days pay only for the union to sell us down the river over S&S, I am glad to get back to work but I hope yesterday is of some benefit to us in the long run !!

km79

solerina wrote: »

I hope this doesn't mean that we have lost a days pay only for the union to sell us down the river over S&S, I am glad to get back to work but I hope yesterday is of some benefit to us in the long run !!

Surely the pay will not be deducted now pending outcome of talks
I'm worried
I may not be a union member after Xmas if I fear what will happen come to pass

Lord TSC

I do hope his wasn't just the ASTI giving up. It just looks like they didn't want a long term fight so gave up

solerina

km79 wrote: »

Surely the pay will not be deducted now pending outcome of talks
I'm worried
I may not be a union member after Xmas if I fear what will happen come to pass

I assume it will be as we were not in work yesterday so I cant see them paying us

Mardy Bum

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It takes a Master's degree now to become a teacher. This costs 12k. It also takes at least 5 years of college. How much does it cost to qualify to work in the corner shop and how much experience does one need?

Now if you cannot see the different skill sets and qualifications involved in attaining a minimum wage job and teaching then there is little anyone here can help clarify for you.

If you are worried about your child encourage them to do exam papers and practise their exam timing in subjects like English and history. Studyclix is a very handy website as well.

Relatively speaking recently qualified Irish teachers are paid less than the majority of our OECD counterparts according to recent studies.

It costs €1,200 to complete a level 5 in creche work, then an extra €12,000 to become a level 6, and then to become a level 8 a further €6,000 which is a BA honours in child hood studies. Overall anywhere between 2-5 years depending on what level you want to reach.

So like a Teacher a creche worker can be just as qualified, now compare the salaries, far far different. Most Creche workers are on minimum wage.

Yes Teachers are qualified, and yes they are valuable, that is why they are paid decent salaries already. In fact Irish teachers are among the best paid teachers on the planet.

Irish teachers amongst best paid in world, despite 'austerity' cuts - OECD

km79

solerina wrote: »

I assume it will be as we were not in work yesterday so I cant see them paying us

I was at work ........

km79

km79 wrote: »

Surely the pay will not be deducted now pending outcome of talks
I'm worried
I may not be a union member after Xmas if I fear what will happen come to pass

So you want to be paid for doing no work?

It must be a great life.

Lord TSC

I hope there is more to it than just "talks". Cause talks will turn to promises which they have already shown they won't fulfil. It's kicked the can down the roads, while the Gardai got what they wanted, the nurses will get what they want, while the ASTI run away with tails between their legs

km79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you want to be paid for doing no work?

It must be a great life.

I was at work
You are referring to the Dole I believe

judeboy101

Ok so I opted out of s&s, circular made it plain that on monday 7th my opt out disappeared. So what do I do tomorrow? Am I suddenly opt out again?

solerina

km79 wrote: »

I was at work ........

I cant see them drawing a distinction between those like you who were inside the building and those like me who were locked outside the gates, I assume if student were getting taught you will be paid, if they were not you wont...time will tell I suppose !!