**Nov 2016 Teacher Dispute / See post 1 for Warning **

strawberrie

I have a leaving cert child too and I am glad teachers are on strike over new entrants pay levels. In just a few years my child and her cohort will be these new entrants to many areas of the public service and they should not be subject to separate lower pay scales just because of their age

I also don't feel her future is being destroyed. She is using the time wisely to revise, catch up and read ahead. I'm proud to see her work independently and show me that she will cope with college work in the same fashion.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My child's future is being destroyed by these teachers, why target leaving Cert students?

At least when the Gardai were striking they had the decency to allow essential services to remain without the threat of a strike, why cant the teachers ensure leaving cert students are not having their futures destroyed?

worseforwear

worseforwear wrote: »

So you do think that teachers are valuable to society?

Yes and that's why they get paid higher than most, but this strike is pathetic and without merit. Teachers were extremely lucky to keep their pay, suffer no job loses and hold onto their pensions during the bad times, as the country recovers there are a hell of a lot more worthwhile people who need extra supports, teachers are not one of them. Id rather do more for the homeless on the streets if the country has more money to spend, in time pay restoration could be looked at but considering the country is still running a deficit and the finances starting to look shaky is foolish to be awarding pay increases at a time like this.

Meanwhile young adults taking their leaving certs are having their futures damaged.

kerryguy78

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Less of the hand wringing and "think of the children" line.

My two leaving Cert classes have plenty of work to keep them going.
The course is almost complete.

This will be resolved and any time lost will be made up.

There is a lot more people effected by the teachers action. My wife is out of work because of this so she got no wage because of midterm and hasn't earned a penny this week. Do the teachers think of anyone else? It's about time the public sector was reformed. People should earn pay rises and not just get them because others earn more for the same job!

strawberrie

strawberrie wrote: »

I have a leaving cert child too and I am glad teachers are on strike over new entrants pay levels. In just a few years my child and her cohort will be these new entrants to many areas of the public service and they should not be subject to separate lower pay scales just because of their age

I also don't feel her future is being destroyed. She is using the time wisely to revise, catch up and read ahead. I'm proud to see her work independently and show me that she will cope with college work in the same fashion.

So you are standing over your child for the 7 hours of so of a school day watching exactly what they are upto?

As for new entrants, like most people they will be able to look at the job and see what the pay and conditions are before taking on that role, if they dont like whats on offer then they can move along to the next job.

It is ridiculous to expect gold plated salaries before they have even started working, that is whats wrong with this country, people expecting huge pay without putting the effort in first.

Inspector Coptoor

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Less of the hand wringing and "think of the children" line.

My two leaving Cert classes have plenty of work to keep them going.
The course is almost complete.

This will be resolved and any time lost will be made up.

Also, I was in My LC year in 2001 when teachers were on strike.

I stayed at home, I studied and my leaving Cert went just fine.

Im delighted that your children are doing just fine, the same cant be said for all children.

My child takes learning support and relies on being in school to help them prepare for their exams and get through them.

As it is they may just only scrape through their leaving cert, but with these continued strikes the likelihood of even scrapping through decreases without the supports they receive from the school.

kerryguy78

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes and that's why they get paid higher than most, but this strike is pathetic and without merit. Teachers were extremely lucky to keep their pay, suffer no job loses and hold onto their pensions during the bad times, as the country recovers there are a hell of a lot more worthwhile people who need extra supports, teachers are not one of them. Id rather do more for the homeless on the streets if the country has more money to spend, in time pay restoration could be looked at but considering the country is still running a deficit and the finances starting to look shaky is foolish to be awarding pay increases at a time like this.

Meanwhile young adults taking their leaving certs are having their futures damaged.

Well said at least someone is talking sense

km79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Im delighted that your children are doing just fine, the same cant be said for all children.

My child takes learning support and relies on being in school to help them prepare for their exams and get through them.

As it is they may just only scrape through their leaving cert, but with this continues strikes the likelihood of even scrapping through increases without the supports they receive from the school.

It's been 2 days probably a maximum of one more
Some kids miss that many over 2 weeks playing sports and they get on just fine

Iused2likebusts

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Im delighted that your children are doing just fine, the same cant be said for all children.

My child takes learning support and relies on being in school to help them prepare for their exams and get through them.

As it is they may just only scrape through their leaving cert, but with these continued strikes the likelihood of even scrapping through decreases without the supports they receive from the school.

Get onto your local TD and tell them to stop playing games and pay the asti teachers the net cost of 6 euro a week that they promised they would 3 years ago.

Pang

I am disgusted by the TD vote today on amending Dail business for Thursday. There is a list gone up online of the TDs who voted against discussing the lockout etc..

I am hoping someone can verify also if our pay will be docked by 1/167th or 1/14th? I originally thought it would be 1/14th as this is what happened the last time. Now I am reading online that it may be 1/167th.

trilobite80

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you are standing over your child for the 7 hours of so of a school day watching exactly what they are upto?

Are teachers just babysitting for people...?

A little less spoon feeding would probably be beneficial in the long run, though i take your point regarding Learning Support.
Wouldn't those Croke park hours be better used to help students in receipt of support.

Independent study though.
Isnt that what the all powerful new JC is all about.

km79

km79 wrote: »

It's been 2 days probably a maximum of one more
Some kids miss that many over 2 weeks playing sports and they get on just fine

It should be no days, simple as that.

Imagine if just one of those days were the difference between a decent Leaving cert score?

At the end of the day Teachers are paid a pretty decent salary when compared to many in the private sector struggling on minimum wage.

Instead of demanding more you should be happy with what you have, the country has over 184 Billion worth of debt, we still run a budget deficit, where do you Teachers get off thinking the country is safe to pay more in wages and public sector demands?

You are not only damaging the future of leaving cert students, you are damaging the future of this country by pushing us back into more debt, this time however we wont be able to go running for more loans and the next government will have no option but to finally sack public servants. Its also your own futures you put in danger.

Iused2likebusts

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Get onto your local TD and tell them to stop playing games and pay the asti teachers the net cost of 6 euro a week that they promised they would 3 years ago.

Teachers are well paid already, if I get onto my TD it will be to tell them to sack the lot of the striking ones and go replace them with low paid teachers from Eastern Europe.

strawberrie

No, I don't stand over for seven hours but we do discuss what she has done, look at notes taken talk about what areas/ subjects she can cover. She will be 18 shortly and is very nearly a grown independent woman!

By your logic we will have no decent teachers in a few years time. As the word is out on the low salary scale for new entrants, the lack of contracts with decent hours and those who wish to be able to afford a basic standard of living from their job will jog on. Fair pay is needed.

As for the gold plated salary, well you must be a bit confused somewhere!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you are standing over your child for the 7 hours of so of a school day watching exactly what they are upto?

As for new entrants, like most people they will be able to look at the job and see what the pay and conditions are before taking on that role, if they dont like whats on offer then they can move along to the next job.

It is ridiculous to expect gold plated salaries before they have even started working, that is whats wrong with this country, people expecting huge pay without putting the effort in first.

trilobite80

trilobite80 wrote: »

Are teachers just babysitting for people...?

A little less spoon feeding would probably be beneficial in the long run.

Isnt that what the all powerful new JC is all about.

No teachers are not babysitting, the are paid to go to school and educate children. I would have also thought it a given that whilst a child was in the care of a teacher they would also be responsible for the safety and well being of that child and not paid extra for this.

km79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It should be no days, simple as that.

Imagine if just one of those days were the difference between a decent Leaving cert score?

At the end of the day Teachers are paid a pretty decent salary when compared to many in the private sector struggling on minimum wage.

Instead of demanding more you should be happy with what you have, the country has over 184 Billion worth of debt, we still run a budget deficit, where do you Teachers get off thinking the country is safe to pay more in wages and public sector demands?

You are not only damaging the future of leaving cert students, you are damaging the future of this country by pushing us back into more debt, this time however we wont be able to go running for more loans and the next government will have no option but to finally sack public servants. Its also your own futures you put in danger.

By your thinking so.......there should be NO extra curr in school . Students miss days because of these .
Any parent whose child misses a day uncertified should be reported to Social Welfare immediately for neglect. This day could mean they miss out on their Leaving Cert

judeboy101

Union has backed down press release on its way. School tm.

Inspector Coptoor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes and that's why they get paid higher than most, but this strike is pathetic and without merit. Teachers were extremely lucky to keep their pay, suffer no job loses and hold onto their pensions during the bad times, as the country recovers there are a hell of a lot more worthwhile people who need extra supports, teachers are not one of them. Id rather do more for the homeless on the streets if the country has more money to spend, in time pay restoration could be looked at but considering the country is still running a deficit and the finances starting to look shaky is foolish to be awarding pay increases at a time like this.

Meanwhile young adults taking their leaving certs are having their futures damaged.

We didn't keep our pay.
We had to endure a lot of pay cuts and austerity like everyone else, none more so than the younger and Lower paid teachers who are down around €8000 a year.

Teachers can't lose their jobs when the population is growing.
That would make zero sense so "luck" has nothing to do with it.

A lot of us are a long long way from claiming a pension, 35 years away for me.

There are undoubtedly teachers who are very comfortable and don't need any more money.

There are, however, a cohort of teachers who are really struggling and living from fortnight to fortnight, so who are you to say who is "deserving"?

Less hysteria & more reasoned debate is what is needed.

trilobite80

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No teachers are not babysitting, the are paid to go to school and educate children. I would have also thought it a given that whilst a child was in the care of a teacher they would also be responsible for the safety and well being of that child and not paid extra for this.

Paid to educate, and do educate.

And then the next crew come in and are educated.

Paid extra for supervising outside of that classroom... Well there are security staff in shops, couldn't the shop staff do that....?

strawberrie

strawberrie wrote: »

No, I don't stand over for seven hours but we do discuss what she has done, look at notes taken talk about what areas/ subjects she can cover. She will be 18 shortly and is very nearly a grown independent woman!

By your logic we will have no decent teachers in a few years time. As the word is out on the low salary scale for new entrants, the lack of contracts with decent hours and those who wish to be able to afford a basic standard of living from their job will jog on. Fair pay is needed.

As for the gold plated salary, well you must be a bit confused somewhere!

Well whats the starting salary for a teacher ?

According to the ASTI its €33,950 and it increases every year.

Minimum wage in this country pays €18,000 per year.

So yes the teachers start on a decent salary.

Irish teachers are also among the highest paid in the world,
Irish teachers amongst best paid in world, despite 'austerity' cuts - OECD

So if we do have a teacher shortage in a few years time we will be able to recruit quite easily from the UK and Europe.

km79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It should be no days, simple as that.

Imagine if just one of those days were the difference between a decent Leaving cert score?

At the end of the day Teachers are paid a pretty decent salary when compared to many in the private sector struggling on minimum wage.

Instead of demanding more you should be happy with what you have, the country has over 184 Billion worth of debt, we still run a budget deficit, where do you Teachers get off thinking the country is safe to pay more in wages and public sector demands?

You are not only damaging the future of leaving cert students, you are damaging the future of this country by pushing us back into more debt, this time however we wont be able to go running for more loans and the next government will have no option but to finally sack public servants. Its also your own futures you put in danger.

Looks like school tomorrow
So 2 days missed
Make sure your child does not attend any extra curr activities , open days, family events for the rest of the year now .

Peppa Pig

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Get onto your local TD and tell them to stop playing games and pay the asti teachers the net cost of 6 euro a week that they promised they would 3 years ago.

Would you come off strike if that happened?

km79

km79 wrote: »

By your thinking so.......there should be NO extra curr in school . Students miss days because of these .
Any parent whose child misses a day uncertified should be reported to Social Welfare immediately for neglect. This day could mean they miss out on their Leaving Cert

Not all children miss school, some only miss for sickness.

Even for those who do, the teachers strike only adds to their future problems.

Icsics

judeboy101 wrote: »

Union has backed down press release on its way. School tm.

Emergency SC meeting this eve, I'm hoping its derogation for principals....

Inspector Coptoor

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

We didn't keep our pay.
We had to endure a lot of pay cuts and austerity like everyone else, none more so than the younger and Lower paid teachers who are down around €8000 a year.

Teachers can't lose their jobs when the population is growing.
That would make zero sense so "luck" has nothing to do with it.

A lot of us are a long long way from claiming a pension, 35 years away for me.

There are undoubtedly teachers who are very comfortable and don't need any more money.

There are, however, a cohort of teachers who are really struggling and living from fortnight to fortnight, so who are you to say who is "deserving"?

Less hysteria & more reasoned debate is what is needed.

All existing teachers kept their core pay, what cuts did you have to take?

Regardless of what extras you lost the starting core salary is still far higher than anyone on minimum wage or less that 30k per year.

judeboy101

Icsics wrote: »

Emergency SC meeting this eve, I'm hoping its derogation for principals....

Nope, looks like full back down on s&s

Iused2likebusts

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Teachers are well paid already, if I get onto my TD it will be to tell them to sack the lot of the striking ones and go replace them with low paid teachers from Eastern Europe.

Thats a great idea I reckon there would be no knock on effects from that in years to come. Do you reckon your overpaid yourself.

trilobite80

trilobite80 wrote: »

Paid to educate, and do educate.

And then the next crew come in and are educated.

Paid extra for supervising outside of that classroom... Well there are security staff in shops, couldn't the shop staff do that....?

If a member of staff goes absent in a shop then another member of staff covers them for that shift.

In a creche a creche worker not only educates a child but is fully responsible for their safety, wellbeing and health.

Why should a teacher be any different?

Inspector Coptoor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All existing teachers kept their core pay, what cuts did you have to take?

Regardless of what extras you lost the starting core salary is still far higher than anyone on minimum wage or less that 30k per year.

Imposition of pension levy of 7.5% that doesn't go towards the pension itself.
It's just another tax.
USC which everyone has to pay.
3 years of S&S for free at a loss of €1600 per year.
Increments frozen

I could go on.

Iused2likebusts

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Thats a great idea I reckon there would be no knock on effects from that in years to come. Do you reckon your overpaid yourself.

It is a great idea, already happened in the private sector since 2002, maybe its time the public sector experienced the same?

Peppa Pig

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

This will be resolved and any time lost will be made up.

How will that happen?