Reach 'Advantage'

VulcanRaving

You hear it being mentioned at nearly every Tale of the Tape:
'Joe Bloggs has a X inch reach advantage'
Does anyone else think it could be objectively called longer reach rather than straight out the gate being referred to as an 'advantage?'

I realise when it comes to the boxing aspect of the game it is certainly advantageous to be able to hit your opponent when they can't hit you.

However, if you talk about the grappling aspect of MMA I think there can be a case made that longer reach can be in certain situations, a disadvantage.

For example, I find it a lot easier locking on armbars and kimuras from guard on someone with longer arms than a stockier opponent.
With standup wrestling I find it far more difficult to get and underhook and particularly a 2-on-1 Russian Tie on a stockier opponent than a rangier one.

MartyMcFly84

Long limbs can also be an advantage for submissions.

I know some long limbed guys who can hit things like darce choke or triangles from everywhere is it much easier for them to lock them up.

In general for two guys the same weight having long reach is an advantage, perhaps not in wrestling specifically but in a lot of martial arts having longer limbs would be an advantage.

Especially arts that involve striking and start standing. Jon Jones for example is an long limbs fighter who uses it to his advantage in every range.

wonderfullife

Jack Slack of Fightland does great work and i encourage everybody to check out his articles and podcasts. He's extremely knowledgeable on the technical aspects of the fight game.

What he reminds people, constantly, is a reach advantage is never just the numbers on the screen.

For example:

Conor has a 74" reach, Eddie 69" reach. But when you see them standing face-to-face it's easy to argue Conor is an inch, if not 2 inches, taller than Eddie. Conor claimed Eddie stood on his tippy-toes during the face-off.

It's more than a 5" reach in practice. What Jack Slack always emphasises is the true metric is height x reach.

If you stand parallel to a wall and put your arm out at shoulder height to touch the wall, shoulder height is the straightest line to the wall and where your reach is at its optimum.

If you move your arm up higher on the wall without moving your feet, your fingers are no longer touching the wall. You need to step closer to the wall. Whereas if you move your arm lower on the wall, it is still touching the wall.

In practice for Eddie to hit Conor in the head he has to punch upwards and raise his hands above his shoulder. Conor is punching downwards to hit Eddie in the head.

Slack also points out that the longest weapon at a fighters disposal is often their leg. Again, your leg reach is at its optimum when standing up straight.

Where height and reach can be a disadvantage, against a wrestler, is that the smaller man is closer to the legs of his opponent for a level-change.

On paper, Conor has a 5" reach. In practice, it's bigger. It's a huge advantage on the feet, especially if a fighter has excellent control of range and distance. Eddie must close the distance to hit Conor and leaves himself vulnerable to eating clean punches and kicks in doing so. Range will be a huge factor in the fight.

Mellor

VulcanRaving wrote: »

For example, I find it a lot easier locking on armbars and kimuras from guard on someone with longer arms than a stockier opponent.

That's probably true for me too. The longer arms means they re further past your hips. With their hand in the same spot, their elbow is more open.

But this is cancelled out by the fact that can hit darces, triangles, etc easier. And have more scope to control range in an open guard.

With standup wrestling I find it far more difficult to get and underhook and particularly a 2-on-1 Russian Tie on a stockier opponent than a rangier one.

Maybe. But its easier to get a double leg as you can get closer to them before you shoot. And so on. Pros and cons in different areas. Overall I'd say it's an advantage in jiu jisu but not as outright an advantage as in striking

VulcanRaving

Mellor wrote: »

That's probably true for me too. The longer arms means they re further past your hips. With their hand in the same spot, their elbow is more open.

But this is cancelled out by the fact that can hit darces, triangles, etc easier. And have more scope to control range in an open guard.



Maybe. But its easier to get a double leg as you can get closer to them before you shoot. And so on. Pros and cons in different areas. Overall I'd say it's an advantage in jiu jisu but not as outright an advantage as in striking

Actually I'm a 6 footer myself with a long reach.
I agree with the D'Arce choke, I've had more success trying to lock that up from a sprawl than a guillotine. The Team Alpha male guys (Mendes, Faber) seem to be guillotine advocates, maybe their bodytype suits it.
Triangles would be true as well but we are now getting into leg length where I'm zoning in on Mike Goldberg announcing arm reach as an advantage in the tale of the tape.

MartyMcFly84

Because it is an advantage.

In MMA the fight starts standing, so whoever can hit and not get hit will have an advantage. Straight away the person with shorter arms will need to have a strategy to cancel that reach. Be it head movement, setting up takedowns, rushing etc.

But the onus will be on the shorter armed fighter to work the beat the reach advantage or he/she will just get picked off on the outside.

Mellor

VulcanRaving wrote: »

Actually I'm a 6 footer myself with a long reach.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You are comparing "you vrs long" and "you vrs short". In both cases you're the long guy. You are comparing two different fights.

But you should be looking at a single fight. Sure it can be tricky to lock a Russian tie on a short guy, but he prob has a much harder time locking one on you. That's the reach advantage.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I've a long reach, and whether its MMA, Judo, BJJ or Wrestling I'll take the advantage a long reach gives me any day [over a shorter reach].

If you're being caught out because of your long reach, then I often tell a newbie 'T-Rex arms' and stop giving straight, long arms.. I'd tell someone the same irregardless what style they're training.

I'm primarily a Judoka, so I've dying for you to give me long arms.. They're like the golden ticket for me, and this works for MMA training, BJJ, Wrestling or Judo and it works the same on the ground.. You've got long arms, think 'T-Rex arms and pull those elbows in.

My two cent.