It's here: Election Day in America. Indecision 2016.

Fr Tod Umptious

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

What about the white racists with Trump flags blocking blacks from voting ?

How many of them did you see ?

It was the south after all.

Amazingfun

lol.....

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/796010008811098113

Jayop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Read the article. The election judges verified there was something wrong with the machines.

Amerika wrote: »

But didn't CBS report election officials verified that the machines were switching votes from Trump to Clinton. Can't get much more verified than that.

Did they?

Pennsylvania State Representative Daryl Metcalfe went to Clinton Township to check on the reports for himself.

“If somebody has an issue, they should certainly let the judge of elections at the precinct know and also call their county bureau of elections as folks have done here this morning,” Pa. Rep. Daryl Metcalfe said.


“Those machines should be taken out of the mix and they shouldn’t be using those machines. They ought to be replacing those and using new machines to replace the ones that are acting up,” Metcalfe said.

Officials have recalibrated the machines and are confident that the problem has been resolve

No they didn't actually, but carry on making ****e up!

Jayop

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Both parties engage in election fraud. The Democrats use the voter registration to get as many votes as they can. Don't believe many of those voters are voting for the right reasons.

getting voters to vote for you isn't election fraud.

KingBrian2

Jayop wrote: »

getting voters to vote for you isn't election fraud.

Signing people up to vote and telling them a pile of lies is blatant corruption. Many of these voters have never voted before and immediately are steered towards the Democratic party. Just to follow up on that here in Ireland we have a voter registration system so people are encouraged to vote but both sides are presented. In America you go straight to one side.

Jayop

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Signing people up to vote and telling them a pile of lies is blatant corruption. Many of these voters have never voted before and immediately are steered towards the Democratic party. Just to follow up on that here in Ireland we have a voter registration system so people are encouraged to vote but both sides are presented. In America you go straight to one side.

Still not election fraud. Might be unethical, might be wrong, might even at a stretch be corrupt. Still miles from any definition of election fraud.

dball

KingBrian2

Jayop wrote: »

Still not election fraud. Might be unethical, might be wrong, might even at a stretch be corrupt. Still miles from any definition of election fraud.

You want to change the system but tolerate corrupt practices from one party over another. As I said both parties are corrupt not like the Republicans have a monopoly on corruption.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Both parties engage in election fraud. The Democrats use the voter registration to get as many votes as they can.

Oh dear.

Voter registration isnt fraud.

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

Oh dear.

Voter registration isnt fraud.

I did not say it was I said the way it is used is. The tactic by way the Democrats use it as a method to get as many votes as possible.

Fr Tod Umptious

Jayop wrote: »

Did they?



No they didn't actually, but carry on making ****e up!

Here I'll quote the bit that you ignored cos it does not suit your argument

Election judges in Clinton Township, Butler County confirmed there were issues with two of their eight automated voting machines. Most of the issues came when people tried to vote straight party ticket.

However, others said they specifically wanted to vote for Republican Donald Trump only to see their vote switched before their eyes to Democrat Hillary Clinton.

“I went back, pressed Trump again. Three times I did this, so then I called one of the women that were working the polls over. And she said you must be doing it wrong. She did it three times and it defaulted to Hillary every time,” Bobbie Lee Hawranko said.

Jayop

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You want to change the system but tolerate corrupt practices from one party over another. As I said both parties are corrupt not like the Republicans have a monopoly on corruption.

Where did I say I wanted to change the system? The American political system is corrupt to the core, both parties and pretty much all candidates are at the mercy of vested interests.

Jayop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Here I'll quote the bit that you ignored cos it does not suit your argument

They confirmed there were issues with two of the machines. They didn't confirm that they were doing what the people said they did.


Just to clarify. I could go in to vote, say the machine punched me in the face and that would be an issue whether it happened or not.

Amalgam

Brian? wrote: »

Anyone else betting on the outcome?

4/1 Ten euro on Trump winning. Paddy Power, a week or three back, I'll check the docket later.

I hope I don't win. The idea of having to listen to Trump's partner give the world life advice for the next 4/8 years, shudder..

KingBrian2

Jayop wrote: »

Where did I say I wanted to change the system? The American political system is corrupt to the core, both parties and pretty much all candidates are at the mercy of vested interests.

Trump is opposed by virtually all those in Washington. He is hated for his no nonsense approach to economics & politics.

Jayop

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump is opposed by virtually all those in Washington. He is hated for his no nonsense approach to economics & politics.

No, he's hated for his racism, xenophobia, and lies among other things.

Fr Tod Umptious

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Signing people up to vote and telling them a pile of lies is blatant corruption. Many of these voters have never voted before and immediately are steered towards the Democratic party. Just to follow up on that here in Ireland we have a voter registration system so people are encouraged to vote but both sides are presented. In America you go straight to one side.

The usual line is that it's the GOP support that is ill informed whereas in reality its the Dem voters that are the low information ones.

Why else do you think that the Dems target the poor and minorities, because they have a vote for life.

There was an Irish American GOP guy on Morning Ireland on Radio 1 this morning.

The interviewer asked him how as an Irish American was he with the GOP, and he said that over the years Irish Americans have become better educated and more middle class and therefore no longer blindly follow the union/Democrat line in voting.

Amerika

A good and concise piece on how to vote on hot button issues. I would say fairly accurate. And important to remember SCOTUS picks will determine the outcome. Going by the guide it's Trump all the way for me.

Second Amendment

Do you believe that guns are inherently bad? Do you believe that there are too many guns, that gun manufacturers should be held responsible for what individuals do with them, and that the government needs to further restrict the public’s right to own and use guns? If so, you must vote for her. She has publicly promised to appoint judges that will make these beliefs the basis for laws by which we all will live for the rest of our lives.

Or do you believe strongly in the “right to bear arms”? Do you believe that further gun restrictions will only restrict the access honest citizens have to firearms and ammunition? Do you believe that a gun—while dangerous—is a tool like a car and that when used incorrectly, it is the fault of a person, not the fault of the tool? If so, you must vote for him. He has publicly promised to appoint judges that will make laws according to this line of thinking. At that point, we will live with those laws for the rest of our lives.

And this Second Amendment issue will be determined by the Supreme Court.

Abortion

Do you believe that the fetus inside a pregnant woman is a tissue mass and that a woman should be able to rid her body of that tissue mass at any time during the nine months prior to that tissue mass being born? Do you believe that tissue mass only becomes a human being once it is outside the woman’s body? Do you believe that your tax dollars should be used to allow anyone who chooses, for whatever reason, to rid their body of that tissue mass?

Do you believe that counseling centers, funded by churches, set up for the purpose of encouraging adoption should be forced by law to offer abortion counseling as an alternative? If so, you must vote for her. She has publicly promised to appoint judges that will enforce these beliefs into laws by which you and I must live for the rest of our lives.

Or do you believe that the baby inside a mother is a human being? Do you believe that life has a purpose and that, from the moment of conception, each and every child is unique and valuable?

Do you believe that you should not be forced to fund Planned Parenthood—the largest abortion provider in America—with your tax dollars? Do you believe more than 50 million government-approved abortions in the United States since 1970 are enough? If so, you must vote for him. He has publicly promised to appoint judges that will reduce, restrict, and eventually do away with abortion on demand and what you believe will be made into laws by which you and I will live for the rest of our lives.

And this abortion issue will be determined by the Supreme Court.

Immigration

Do you believe the United States should move toward a policy of “open borders”? Do you believe undocumented persons in the United States illegally should not only be allowed to stay, but issued driver’s licenses, food stamps, and provided medical care? Do you believe that if someone wishes to enter our country, they have every right to do so without explanation? If so, you must vote for her, for she has publicly promised to appoint judges that will reverse laws currently on the books regarding immigration. These laws will eventually lead to her stated “dream of open borders” and a new way of life for us all.

Or do you believe that America’s borders are her first line of defense? Do you believe that the word “illegal” means just that? Do you believe that only legally recognized citizens of America have a right to her benefits and protection as provided by your tax dollars? Do you believe America has not only the right, but the responsibility to carefully vet those who seek to enter our country? If so, you must vote for him, for he has publicly promised to appoint judges that will make and defend laws in line with those beliefs.

Regulatory Oversight

Do you believe the government is more capable of determining how your money should be used? Do you believe the government is better able to determine how your children should be educated? Do you believe the government should determine who can do business where and with whom? Do you believe a person should be given priority because of what they believe, what they are, or what they believe they are? If so, you must vote for her, for she has publicly promised to appoint judges who will open our borders, our bathrooms, and our wallets. She has promised laws to punish those who do not agree.

Or do you believe you can decide what’s best for your family? Do you believe that if you earn a certain amount of money you should be able to keep and reinvest the largest part of it to benefit those things you decide are important? Do you believe the government has been created to serve the people, not the other way around? If so, you must vote for him, for he has publicly promised to appoint judges whose rulings allow prosperity for those who work to deserve it.

http://yellowhammernews.com/politics-2/andrews-trump-clinton-will-president-heres-decide-vote/

ThisRegard

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump is opposed by virtually all those in Washington. He is hated for his no nonsense approach to economics & politics.

His approach to both economics and politics are mostly nonsense.

Fr Tod Umptious

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Signing people up to vote and telling them a pile of lies is blatant corruption. Many of these voters have never voted before and immediately are steered towards the Democratic party. Just to follow up on that here in Ireland we have a voter registration system so people are encouraged to vote but both sides are presented. In America you go straight to one side.

The usual line is that it's the GOP support that is ill informed whereas in reality its the Dem voters that are the low information ones.

Why else do you think that the Dems target the poor and minorities, because they have a vote for life.

There was an Irish American GOP guy on Morning Ireland on Radio 1 this morning.

The interviewer asked him how as an Irish American was he with the GOP, and he said that over the years Irish Americans have become better educated and more middle class and therefore no longer blindly follow the union/Democrat line in voting.

They think for themselves.

Advbrd

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Signing people up to vote and telling them a pile of lies is blatant corruption. Many of these voters have never voted before and immediately are steered towards the Democratic party. Just to follow up on that here in Ireland we have a voter registration system so people are encouraged to vote but both sides are presented. In America you go straight to one side.

Not sure I get that. So you sign up to vote. You are still free to vote for whomever you want. What's corrupt about that? If a party or candidate convinces you to vote one particular way, so what? That's politics.
What's with the "both sides are presented" in Ireland? What are "both sides"?

learn_more

There is a cute little 'predict the pesident' game on the bbc website where you select who wins the swing states and gives you a final result in terms of electoral votes. Takes 2 minutes to play.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-ae25cd31-fdd8-45f8-a0f6-ae7ac1efb08a

I got 316 / 222 to Hillary.

Jayop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The usual line is that it's the GOP support that is ill informed whereas in reality its the Dem voters that are the low information ones.

Why else do you think that the Dems target the poor and minorities, because they have a vote for life.

There was an Irish American GOP guy on Morning Ireland on Radio 1 this morning.

The interviewer asked him how as an Irish American was he with the GOP, and he said that over the years Irish Americans have become better educated and more middle class and therefore no longer blindly follow the union/Democrat line in voting.

Go here and click on the education tab. Clinton leads among college educated voters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/who-is-winning-the-presidential-election-so-far/?tid=a_inl

Fr Tod Umptious

Jayop wrote: »

Go here and click on the education tab. Clinton leads among college educated voters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/who-is-winning-the-presidential-election-so-far/?tid=a_inl

True enough in this election but what was it like in others where the candidate was not Trump.

The point is Dems use minorities because they know its a vote for life

KingBrian2

Advbrd wrote: »

Not sure I get that. So you sign up to vote. You are still free to vote for whomever you want. What's corrupt about that? If a party or candidate convinces you to vote one particular way, so what? That's politics.
What's with the "both sides are presented" in Ireland? What are "both sides"?

The minority voters sign up to vote and end up voting Democrats they might like what the Republicans stand for when you become a citizen of America you have to pay taxes and start a life so policies pursued by the GOP might actually improve your ability to spend and work. As for Ireland as far as I know. A while since my civics class everyone is automatically placed on the voter registration. You enter the voting booth and show you ID and hey presto all is clear.

TheOven

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

True enough in this election but what was it like in others where the candidate was not Trump.

The point is Dems use minorities because they know its a vote for life

Well it isn't like the GOP are showing any signs of changing, why would they switch?

Jayop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

True enough in this election but what was it like in others where the candidate was not Trump.

The point is Dems use minorities because they know its a vote for life

And the GOP target uneducated rednecks for the same reasons. Shocker.



What is interesting is I was reading about the history of the Civil war recently and (correct me if I'm wrong here) the Democrat party was actually the one which was defending the right to own slaves and the likes whereas the republican party was the one which campaigned to free slaves.

FatherTed

Voted at 6:30am this morning and have to say it was the most busiest I've seen it since I've been voting(since 2000) at this voting location here in CT.

Going back to vote again later after work

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I did not say it was I said the way it is used is. The tactic by way the Democrats use it as a method to get as many votes as possible.

Its generally the political parties that arrange "voter drives", its extremely common in the USA. All parties do it. Once you're registered to vote you can vote for whoever you want though.

I've no idea how you got it in your head this was Democratic party corruption.

Some parties will actually arrange lifts for people to get to the polls to vote too. There's nothing illegal about it.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The usual line is that it's the GOP support that is ill informed whereas in reality its the Dem voters that are the low information ones.

Why else do you think that the Dems target the poor and minorities, because they have a vote for life.

I don't see a correlation between minorities and the "ill informed". Are gay people or black people less informed than your average white male religious Texan?

InTheTrees

FatherTed wrote: »

Voted at 6:30am this morning and have to say it was the most busiest I've seen it since I've been voting(since 2000) at this voting location here in CT.

Going back to vote again later after work

Its only by mail here in Washington. Its odd not to have polling places anymore.

Although I don't have a vote. Twenty years and I'm still on a green card.

Advbrd

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The minority voters sign up to vote and end up voting Democrats they might like what the Republicans stand for when you become a citizen of America you have to pay taxes and start a life so policies pursued by the GOP might actually improve your ability to spend and work. As for Ireland as far as I know. A while since my civics class everyone is automatically placed on the voter registration. You enter the voting booth and show you ID and hey presto all is clear.

Any voter registered to vote in America is entitled to vote for whomever they chose in their particular area.
Any voter registered to vote in Ireland is entitled to vote for whomever they chose in their particular area.
You are not automatically placed on the register in Ireland. I actually was but it is not a guaranteed automatic process.

Amerika

FatherTed wrote: »

Voted at 6:30am this morning and have to say it was the most busiest I've seen it since I've been voting(since 2000) at this voting location here in CT.

Going back to vote again later after work

You're a Democrat? :P

Jayop

Amerika wrote: »

You're a Democrat? :P

Catholic too. He must be from South America.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

And the GOP target uneducated rednecks for the same reasons. Shocker.

What is interesting is I was reading about the history of the Civil war recently and (correct me if I'm wrong here) the Democrat party was actually the one which was defending the right to own slaves and the likes whereas the republican party was the one which campaigned to free slaves.

The Republican Party was certainly seen as the anti slavery party, the antipathy amongst the Irish towards black people - who were rivals in the post Civil War cheap labour market - is often given as one of the reasons that Irish people were drawn to the Democrats.

Fr Tod Umptious

Jayop wrote: »

And the GOP target uneducated rednecks for the same reasons. Shocker.



What is interesting is I was reading about the history of the Civil war recently and (correct me if I'm wrong here) the Democrat party was actually the one which was defending the right to own slaves and the likes whereas the republican party was the one which campaigned to free slaves.

Yes the Democrat party was the party of slavery and the party of the south.

The Republicans were only new during the civil war, and Lincoln was their first president.

Even as late as the 1960s civil right movement you had Democrats like George Wallace in the south.

I also believe that's why the Irish traditional supported the Democrats, they did not like blacks as they were competing for the same jobs etc in northern cities.

I'm not sure when it swung, probably during the Kennedy and Johnson years.

My grandfather who left the NY and returned to Ireland in the late '30s hated the Kennedy's, because they gave too much to the blacks.

TheOven

Jayop wrote: »

And the GOP target uneducated rednecks for the same reasons. Shocker.



What is interesting is I was reading about the history of the Civil war recently and (correct me if I'm wrong here) the Democrat party was actually the one which was defending the right to own slaves and the likes whereas the republican party was the one which campaigned to free slaves.

Yup, Dems and Reps swapped. Dems used to be the racists and then the reps went for southern strategy. Here's a map I found earlier, you can see the south states that we see as republican now voting democrat in the past.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/animated-map-states-vote-every-presidential-elections-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

Jayop

Deleted User wrote: »

The Republican Party was certainly seen as the anti slavery party, the antipathy amongst the Irish towards black people - who were rivals in the post Civil War cheap labour market - is often given as one of the reasons that Irish people were drawn to the Democrats.

Yeah I can see how that could be the case. I was surprised at that and how the perceived roles have been switched from the GOP being the protector of minorities and slaves to the Dems now being the ones seen to be fighting for minorities.

Advbrd

FatherTed wrote: »

Voted at 6:30am this morning and have to say it was the most busiest I've seen it since I've been voting(since 2000) at this voting location here in CT.

Going back to vote again later after work

I hear you're a racist now father.

Jayop

Cheers for the replies guys. Must be one of the biggest ideological switcheroos in history.

FatherTed

Advbrd wrote: »

I hear you're a racist now father.

No I'm not a Trump supporter.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm not sure when it swung, probably during the Kennedy and Johnson years.

My grandfather who left the NY and returned to Ireland in the late '30s hated the Kennedy's, because they gave too much to the blacks.

Interesting.

I had 2 uncles in the States, now deceased. One was a priest and a committed Democrat who revered the Kennedys. The other was a businessman who disliked the Kennedys because he saw them as pivotal in opening up the wave of Asian immigrants in the mid 60s following the lifting of quotas, and diluting the influence and position of the older European immigrants such as the Irish.

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I did not say it was I said the way it is used is. The tactic by way the Democrats use it as a method to get as many votes as possible.

On one side, we have republicans removing eligible voters from the register and denying them their right to vote,
This is fraud.

On the other side, you have a a party encouraging its likely supporters to register and use their vote. This is not fraud.

Overheal

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I did not say it was I said the way it is used is. The tactic by way the Democrats use it as a method to get as many votes as possible.

The GOP doesn't register voters? News to me.

FatherTed

Amerika wrote: »

You're a Democrat? :P

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Fr Tod Umptious

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting.

I had 2 uncles in the States, now deceased. One was a priest and a committed Democrat who revered the Kennedys. The other was a businessman who disliked the Kennedys because he saw them as pivotal in opening up the wave of Asian immigrants in the mid 60s following the lifting of quotas, and diluting the influence and position of the older European immigrants such as the Irish.

One thing that annoys me about the Irish media and the narative about Irish America is the assumptions that all Irish Americans are progresdive Democrats and that all universally supported the Kennedy's.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

One thing that annoys me about the Irish media and the narative about Irish America is the assumptions that all Irish Americans are progresdive Democrats and that all universally supported the Kennedy's.

My uncle who was a Republican liked certain aspects of the Kennedys, they were articulate, passionate etc. He just didn't particularly like some of their policies. He was in business and, I guess unsurprisingly, he loved Reagan, for him it was economic policy first, social issues second. And that is critical to so many in the USA, one remembers the "it's the economy, stupid" line that was taken up in the first Clinton campaign, The uncle who was a priest would have a very different take and was big into issues like support for the most deprived, and that's classic Democrat country. Of course one might expect a priest would be Republican given their stance on matters like abortion or gay rights, but as he spent a lot of time in Central America he was from that whole left wing that characterised the Catholic Church in Central America.

Rjd2

what thread are we using mods for this farce? This or the superthread?:o

learn_more

Rjd2 wrote: »

what thread are we using mods for this farce? This or the superthread?:o

Election night, this one.

Tomorrow, the superthread.