ECCE scheme - creche forcing me to pay for more hours

Claire de Lune

Hi,

My son is due to be start creche with the ECCE scheme in September 2017, he'll be 3 years and 5 months then. I started ringing creches to find a place for him this summer but they are all booked out. I widened my search to a 10/12 km radius, again all booked out until September 2019, some even until 2020! His name is on every waiting list possible but I was told not to hold my breath. Most of them have closed their waiting as it's too long. It seems like it's becoming like the schools in my area, put your child's name as soon as they are born.

The only place that would take him is that chain of creches, but they are forcing me to pay extra hours. They told me that they don't have a place for the 3 free ECCE hours 9.30 am till 12.30, but they do have places for their 9.30 am - 2pm session. They charge 300 euros a month for the extra 1h30 a day they mind my child + dinner after the ECCE hours.

1) We can't afford this. I am a stay at home mum, living on 1 salary in Dublin is hard enough. 300 euros a month is a lot of money for us.

2) My son won't be able for a 5 hour day. It's as long as a school day for JI/SI in school. He's never been in a creche or classroom environment, only playgroups. It's going to be a huge change for him and 3 hours a day is enough initially. Even if I had the money to pay the 300, I would still pick him up at 12.30. The 3 ECCE hours are perfect for a 3/4 year old child. This creche only see the extra money they can make!

What are my options... If any? I rang the department of children and youth, I talked to a very nice man who understood my situation very well, but told me that creches can do whatever they like when providing the free ECCE hours eg forcing extra billable hours is allowed. He advised me to look for another creche and gave me the number of my local childcare committee, which unfortunately is no help.

I haven't signed the contract yet with this creche... Deposit is 250 euros. They are telling me that places are limited, which I believe given how many creches are already booked out. Any advice?

Thanks

Edups

There isn't a whole lot you can do OP.. You're choice is either don't send to creche or pay the 300 p/m, neither are what you want but if you can't afford the creche you can't send.. I wouldn't advise breaking the bank just for that

2xj3hplqgsbkym

If I were you I wouldn't send him
- too much hassle getting there and back every day
- you don't seem happy with the place
- you can't afford it
Instead you could go to more playgroups, swimming lessons, libraries etc. if you are worried about socialisation, at a time you choose.
Consider getting a local babysitter for yourself to have a few hours and him getting used to bring minded.

lazygal

I would put the child's name down for a couple of other places. People move house, change their minds etc all the time. If this is the only service with places there isn't a lot you can do though, they are a private business and they aren't breaking any rules.

newwan

I don't understand. You are a stay at home mum. Why does your son need to go to a crèche?

ThisRegard

Claire de Lune wrote: »

2) My son won't be able for a 5 hour day. It's as long as a school day for JI/SI in school. He's never been in a creche or classroom environment, only playgroups. It's going to be a huge change for him and 3 hours a day is enough initially. Even if I had the money to pay the 300, I would still pick him up at 12.30. The 3 ECCE hours are perfect for a 3/4 year old child. This creche only see the extra money they can make!

Your son will be well able for 5 hours a day, unless he has some social issues you haven't mentioned. Remember there are 4 year olds in primary school at the moment and many many 3/4 year olds doing a full day in childcare without any issue.

alexonhisown

They are not forcing you to pay extra, they cant be expected to give all their morning time slots to the free places. Its just unfortunate that all the free places are booked up so far in advance

daymobrew

newwan wrote: »

I don't understand. You are a stay at home mum. Why does your son need to go to a crèche?

It is for the preschool aspect. The following year her son will enter primary school. The preschool year can be very useful to prepare children for primary school - the small class sizes are a gentle introduction to the classroom.

Edups

newwan wrote: »

I don't understand. You are a stay at home mum. Why does your son need to go to a crèche?

People want time to themselves? Errands are easier without a child to bring around? Creche isn't just for people who work. And that's not to speak of how good for the childs social skills it is.

Claire de Lune

Thank you all for the replies. Yes I technically I am not forced into paying anything but it feels that way... The creche in question have a free place for him on the ECCE scheme which is funded by the governement but so they are not out of pocket but their policy is to charge extra for it. Anyways, there's nothing I can do about it!

I really want my son to go to a creche/preschool before he enters big school. I think they are great way to ease children gently into classroom environment, learning to stay seated for a bit, listening to instructions, sharing/taking turns. And of course for the social aspect. At the moment he's alone at home with me most of the day and although we go to playgroups, he never leaves my side. Creche/Preschool would hopefully help him gain confidence.

Claire de Lune

ThisRegard wrote: »

Your son will be well able for 5 hours a day, unless he has some social issues you haven't mentioned. Remember there are 4 year olds in primary school at the moment and many many 3/4 year olds doing a full day in childcare without any issue.

Yes, he'd probably be able for 5 hours, but just not initially. Only because he's never been away from me, creche is going to be huge shock! 3 hours would be ideal to start with. My older son went to creche full time from the age of 9 months till he started school, no bother on him! But he didn't know any different.

pwurple

Yup, I'm afraid it's the same shortage all over.

The lauded 'second ecce year' is not available to my smallie in Cork city, because of her birthday. No place that I found will take them unless their birthday falls into the first intake window. The older ECCE session I'm having difficulty with as well, for the same reasons. They give priority to the full time creche children, giving them a discount, they the do part-timers... again giving them a discount, and then they see if there is any space left for children who are not already there.

To be honest, I can easily see it from the providers point of view. How are they supposed to employ staff to support those hours, and even more so for just 1 term? It's not fair to employ people in such a haphazard way, especially those with such a large responsibility of safeguarding small children. The alternative is to employ them with decent hours, and not provide the part time, single term service. Which is the ethically correct thing to do as far as I am concerned.


On your salary, if you are stay at home full time, make absolutely SURE you are tax assessed jointly, not as single people. Your husband should have double tax credits... all yours as well, if you are both living on his salary.

Typer Monkey

Are you solely looking at creches? Are there no stand alone pre schools or montessori in your area? My daughter goes to a 'Tiger' preschool in the local community centre. She only attends for 3 hours. The facility does a breakfast club and after school care for children in the next door primary school but operates as a preschool between 9.30 and 12.30. Is there anywhere like this in your area? A creche is unlikely to have space for a few hours a day for your child. They probably have children there for full day childcare and they deduct the 3 ECCE hours a day for the 3 and 4 year olds from the fees paid by their parents. So I'd forget looking at creches.

Are there any Naonaira (irish language preschools) local to you? They usually run two lots of 3 hour preschool days monday to Fri ie: 9am start and 1pm start etc

galah

daymobrew wrote: »

It is for the preschool aspect. The following year her son will enter primary school. The preschool year can be very useful to prepare children for primary school - the small class sizes are a gentle introduction to the classroom.

Not always - in some cases the creche group sizes are larger than the school classes and can cause more stress in kids due to sheer amount of kids n noise etc. Was our experience at least. But technically it's probably not a bad idea to send kids to preschool. Also for a bit of me time for mummy!

Naoinra would be a good choice as well if creche isnt an option.

ThisRegard

galah wrote: »

Not always - in some cases the creche group sizes are larger than the school classes and can cause more stress in kids due to sheer amount of kids n noise etc. Was our experience at least. But technically it's probably not a bad idea to send kids to preschool. Also for a bit of me time for mummy!

Naoinra would be a good choice as well if creche isnt an option.

There were serious issues with the creche you were using if the group sizes were so big.

galah

Not in the grand average scheme of things - think there was about 20 kids, our child couldnt cope with that amount coming from a quiet childminder setting before (he also had some sensory/behavioural issues). School class much much smaller (at least one benefit of country life :pac:)

Ruddler

Claire de Lune wrote: »

Hi,

My son is due to be start creche with the ECCE scheme in September 2017, he'll be 3 years and 5 months then. I started ringing creches to find a place for him this summer but they are all booked out. I widened my search to a 10/12 km radius, again all booked out until September 2019, some even until 2020! His name is on every waiting list possible but I was told not to hold my breath. Most of them have closed their waiting as it's too long. It seems like it's becoming like the schools in my area, put your child's name as soon as they are born.

The only place that would take him is that chain of creches, but they are forcing me to pay extra hours. They told me that they don't have a place for the 3 free ECCE hours 9.30 am till 12.30, but they do have places for their 9.30 am - 2pm session. They charge 300 euros a month for the extra 1h30 a day they mind my child + dinner after the ECCE hours.

1) We can't afford this. I am a stay at home mum, living on 1 salary in Dublin is hard enough. 300 euros a month is a lot of money for us.

2) My son won't be able for a 5 hour day. It's as long as a school day for JI/SI in school. He's never been in a creche or classroom environment, only playgroups. It's going to be a huge change for him and 3 hours a day is enough initially. Even if I had the money to pay the 300, I would still pick him up at 12.30. The 3 ECCE hours are perfect for a 3/4 year old child. This creche only see the extra money they can make!

What are my options... If any? I rang the department of children and youth, I talked to a very nice man who understood my situation very well, but told me that creches can do whatever they like when providing the free ECCE hours eg forcing extra billable hours is allowed. He advised me to look for another creche and gave me the number of my local childcare committee, which unfortunately is no help.

I haven't signed the contract yet with this creche... Deposit is 250 euros. They are telling me that places are limited, which I believe given how many creches are already booked out. Any advice?

Thanks

Are you planning on giving your son 2 years of preschool or just one? If just one, he will be starting at 4 years and 5 months. That's quite young so you could keep him until September 2019 to start big school and September 2018 for preschool and keep him at home with you for an extra year. My eldest is doing his second year of preschool this year and will be 5 years and 6 months starting school next year. The difference in him this year is huge. He'll be 100% ready for school nexr year. I wouldn't rule out waiting another year to start your son OP.

Millem

OP that's terrible ;( have you checked to see if any primary schools/scout dens have an ecce class? They wouldn't have a website etc
Best of luck with the search. Maybe someone here may be able to suggest some sessional ones in your area?

evolving_doors

Check out if there are any primary schools in the area that run the Early Start program. It's only in areas designated as 'socially disadvantaged' though (for want of a better word!).

uma10

Well I know this post is old but I would have supported this mother, why? bc the creches are taking advantage, the government is giving a scheme where kids are entitled to pre-school, more means should be put in place to satisfy this and make sure every child gets its right. No creche should be asking for more hours etc.
There is so much demand and so little... now they have so much power that they can do whatever they want even to increase the price of the creche knowing that the parents are getting a discount. (The same abuse suffered by rent increases and ridiculous house market, and house and education are basics). Their prices are sky rocket and I am not that kind of person that says oh well if you dont like it dont do it.
I like to raise an awareness and yes people together can change things to make a better place. ECCE is a preparation for primary not only a creche discount for working parents.

ted1

newwan wrote: »

I don't understand. You are a stay at home mum. Why does your son need to go to a cre?

to play with other kids his own age. To give herself a three hour break do have cup of coffee a sandwich, clean the house.

when I'm at work I get an hour lunch break to relax, head to the gym etc. a stay at home parent doesn't get the a lunch break as such.

ted1

uma10 wrote: »

Well I know this post is old but I would have supported this mother, why? bc the creches are taking advantage, the government is giving a scheme where kids are entitled to pre-school, more means should be put in place to satisfy this and make sure every child gets its right. No creche should be asking for more hours etc.
There is so much demand and so little... now they have so much power that they can do whatever they want even to increase the price of the creche knowing that the parents are getting a discount. (The same abuse suffered by rent increases and ridiculous house market, and house and education are basics). Their prices are sky rocket and I am not that kind of person that says oh well if you dont like it dont do it.
I like to raise an awareness and yes people together can change things to make a better place. ECCE is a preparation for primary not only a creche discount for working parents.

I don't think that the cre is taking advantage. They are providing a service that generally lasts 5 hours or more, the state is paying for 3.5 hours, if they let parents only take the free hours then the cre losses out at they now have 1.5 hours that they are no making an income for.

Our kids went/go to Montessori which is 9:30 to 1. I think that's the difference, the OP needs to look for a Montessori which is for pre learning where as cres offer more of a baby sitting with learning

uck51js9zml2yt

pwurple wrote: »

Yup, I'm afraid it's the same shortage all over.

The lauded 'second ecce year' is not available to my smallie in Cork city, because of her birthday. No place that I found will take them unless their birthday falls into the first intake window. The older ECCE session I'm having difficulty with as well, for the same reasons. They give priority to the full time creche children, giving them a discount, they the do part-timers... again giving them a discount, and then they see if there is any space left for children who are not already there.

To be honest, I can easily see it from the providers point of view. How are they supposed to employ staff to support those hours, and even more so for just 1 term? It's not fair to employ people in such a haphazard way, especially those with such a large responsibility of safeguarding small children. The alternative is to employ them with decent hours, and not provide the part time, single term service. Which is the ethically correct thing to do as far as I am concerned.


On your salary, if you are stay at home full time, make absolutely SURE you are tax assessed jointly, not as single people. Your husband should have double tax credits... all yours as well, if you are both living on his salary.

Our sons montessori has 2 sessions per day of 3 hours each.
He didnt qualify for the first semester so we just paid the €65 per week and availed of the free place in january. It was quiet reasonable that the montessori shouldnt be down revenue.