The Fischer Legacy

sodacat11

Many of today's chessplayers are too young to remember the phenomenal effect that the Fischer v Spassky world championship match had on the world of chess. This week's Carlsen Karjakin encounter will largely go unnoticed by the general public but the 1972 match made front page headlines and was avidly followed by millions with no prior knowledge of chess. Chess boards sold out and anything to do with chess became relatively big business. The main benefit was the huge amount of people who actually took up chess and began to play in tournaments. I was probably, indirectly, one of these myself.
This was a golden age and managed properly the chess world now would be a lot bigger than it actually is but over the years numbers receded and chess again became very much a minority passtime.
The Fischer Generation are now all over fifty years old and many are no longer active in chess BUT as the huge amount of entries for the Senior World Chess Championships shows http://www.wscc2016.net/ the oldies have not yet quite lost interest and are willing to come out of (semi)retirement to compete with their peers.
I have often made the case that senior players do not enjoy playing kids and invariably I have been abused and held up to ridicule for this view while others have accused me of being anti- children (completely ignoring the fact that I have coached over a hundred of them).
There are very real reasons that "we" (the oldies) don't like playing kids.
Firstly, they have all been coached, an advantage we never had at their age.
Secondly, they are all booked up to the nines so often we feel that instead of playing them we are playing theory that we are too busy or old or too lazy to bother with. many oldies still play the same lines that Fischer did.
Many youngsters are allowed to play in tournaments that they would otherwise not be qualified for.
There isn't any social side to a tournament infested with kids and one can hardly have a pint with one;s opponent after the game.
Finally no adult enjoys getting mashed by someone young enough to be his grandkid.
I am not saying that children should be banned from tournaments or kept apart from adults but children should be encouraged to play with their peers more than they do . For example weekenders could have a "junior" section based on age rather than rating. More importantly there should be more senior tournaments or at least senior sections in tournaments. The oldies all play all that was held in Dublin this year was a fantastic innovation and long may it continue. The Irish Senior Championship is another tournament that I shall very much look forward to. There is definitely a cohort of senior players who could easily be tempted back into chess and never again will this group be as big as it is now because of the Fischer legacy.This resource should be tapped.

cdeb

All stuff and nonsense.

I'm actually tempted to close this thread as the "arguments" have been done so often at this stage, and I don't think it's ever been shown how such blatant discrimination against one cohort of players can serve any real purpose for the game. (Maybe a moany aul fella section instead of a junior section in tournaments?)

But let's give this thread a chance and see if anything new arises.

sodacat11

cdeb wrote: »

All stuff and nonsense.

I'm actually tempted to close this thread as the "arguments" have been done so often at this stage, and I don't think it's ever been shown how such blatant discrimination against one cohort of players can serve any real purpose for the game. (Maybe a moany aul fella section instead of a junior section in tournaments?)

But let's give this thread a chance and see if anything new arises.

My post isn't meant to be "moany". There are over 500 players entered for the world seniors next week. Does this not show that there if the conditions are right that oldies will support tournaments? I don't see that many doing so in Ireland now. Instead of dismissing my points why not think of ways to tempt lapsed members back into chess?

cdeb

There may well be lapsed players out there who could be brought back into the game.

Banning a large subset of players is not the way to do it though.

The game is thriving here in the past decade, and is all the better for it.

Tim Harding

Personally, as one of the "auld fellas" going to the World Seniors next week, I would be happy to play against the new generation in a specially formatted event that could assist them, e.g., maybe:

a) Clock simuls by three or four of us against groups of the best Under-12s with analysis of the games afterwards; this could easily be done during the junior championships after Christmas?

and/or:

b) a rapid tournament along Scheveningen lines, say, eight seniors (50+) against the same number of juniors (up to perhaps 14-year-olds), where each of the old guys plays each of the young ones over a weekend or 2-day holiday period, supplemented by a couple of lectures beneficial to the juniors, maybe by Alex Baburin and Sam Collins? Especially on endings where the juniors still tend to be weak.

The Senior players to get their expenses paid and lunches provided. Prizes for the best juniors.

No ratings at stake but some interesting games and beneficial to the juniors.

Would you be up for that sodacat?

ComDubh

I've no problem playing juniors. It's one of the positive aspects of chess that we can all compete together. Junior players have certain advantages, but as Tim points out older players have other advantages. Actually, I much rather play a strong Junior I've never played before than another old fogey I've played twenty times already.

sodacat11

cdeb wrote: »

There may well be lapsed players out there who could be brought back into the game.

Banning a large subset of players is not the way to do it though.

The game is thriving here in the past decade, and is all the better for it.

I said nothing about "banning" anyone

sodacat11

Tim Harding wrote: »

Personally, as one of the "auld fellas" going to the World Seniors next week, I would be happy to play against the new generation in a specially formatted event that could assist them, e.g., maybe:

a) Clock simuls by three or four of us against groups of the best Under-12s with analysis of the games afterwards; this could easily be done during the junior championships after Christmas?

and/or:

b) a rapid tournament along Scheveningen lines, say, eight seniors (50+) against the same number of juniors (up to perhaps 14-year-olds), where each of the old guys plays each of the young ones over a weekend or 2-day holiday period, supplemented by a couple of lectures beneficial to the juniors, maybe by Alex Baburin and Sam Collins? Especially on endings where the juniors still tend to be weak.

The Senior players to get their expenses paid and lunches provided. Prizes for the best juniors.

No ratings at stake but some interesting games and beneficial to the juniors.

Would you be up for that sodacat?

I would be happy to participate, especially with the expenses being thrown in.

cdeb

sodacat11 wrote: »

I said nothing about "banning" anyone

You said "For example weekenders could have a "junior" section based on age rather than rating."

That's effectively banning juniors from weekenders. And it's utterly daft

Juniors, IMO, actually play too many junior tournaments.

sodacat11

cdeb wrote: »

Juniors, IMO, actually play too many junior tournaments.

And horses run in too many horse races? Perhaps they would be better off entering the greyhound derby?

cdeb

Thread locked so, as it's clear this is just an attack on a large enough group of players, and it's clear nothing constructive can come out of it, particularly given this "debate" has been facilitated here too many times before, and no new points are forthcoming here.