Vat on 2nd hand tractor

db1694

Hello, quick question, if a contractor with a vat number was to buy a new tractor from the UK, (and therefore not pay the uk vat as they are vat registered), and then 6months later sell the tractor in the south to a non vat registered farmer (as a 2nd hand tractor), is there any Irish vat still liable on the tractor?

alps

db1694 wrote: »

Hello, quick question, if a contractor with a vat number was to buy a new tractor from the UK, (and therefore not pay the uk vat as they are vat registered), and then 6months later sell the tractor in the south to a non vat registered farmer (as a 2nd hand tractor), is there any Irish vat still liable on the tractor?

He should charge vat on the sale....

The sale price should include vat and up to him to make that vat return..

lakill Farm

db1694 wrote: »

Hello, quick question, if a contractor with a vat number was to buy a new tractor from the UK, (and therefore not pay the uk vat as they are vat registered), and then 6months later sell the tractor in the south to a non vat registered farmer (as a 2nd hand tractor), is there any Irish vat still liable on the tractor?

the contractor selling the tractor to the farmer, the price agreed is including vat. So really the contractor is getting 123% of the price and will need to pay the 23% to revenue.

stanflt

lakill Farm wrote: »

the contractor selling the tractor to the farmer, the price agreed is including vat. So really the contractor is getting 123% of the price and will need to pay the 23% to revenue.

I think the op wants to pay the price without the vat iykwim

Glass fused light

db1694 wrote: »

Hello, quick question, if a contractor with a vat number was to buy a new tractor from the UK, (and therefore not pay the uk vat as they are vat registered), and then 6months later sell the tractor in the south to a non vat registered farmer (as a 2nd hand tractor), is there any Irish vat still liable on the tractor?

Been a while but from memory

The importer/contractor is supplying the uk seller with an irish vat number.
Once quoted on the invoice the uk seller is charging vat at the export rate of zero.
importer/contractor reports transaction in books and
A) 'reclaims' zero rate to vat ac and ex vat cost to asset ac and can claims capital allowance off tax bill or
'reclaims' zero rate to vat ac and ex vat cost to sale stock ac.
The importer/contractor is a vat registered business and sells items at a vatable rate by a written sales invoice. They are moving tractor from asset ac and treats as disposal (to sale stock ac), sells with vat rate applied and pays vat over to revenue.
Farmer buys tractor , gets invoice, reports transaction in books and reclaims vat rate to vat ac (off setting against vat payable to revenue) and ex vat to asset ac and can claims capital allowance off tax.

Bass Reeves

Yes OP vat has to be paid on the transaction. When a vat registered person sells anything(that is vat rated) he has to charge vat on the transaction. It is really immaterial to the seller or buyer the market value is the market value of the product. Where it comes into play is if the buyer is vat registered then he can claim the vat back off this tractor.

There is an anomoly in the system of second hand tractors if vat was reclaimed on a tractor when purchassed first day then it can be reclaimed again. However if vat was not claimed by a non registered farmers then it cannot be reclaimed. This gives farmers that are not vat reghistered a bit if an advantage as it is immaterial what tractor they look at. However for registered farmers/contractots buying second had they are looking for atractor taht there is vat on to reclaim.

lakill Farm

stanflt wrote: »

I think the op wants to pay the price without the vat iykwim

2 options

sell back to NI/Uk where the buyer has a valid VAT number

or

Sell to someone in Ireland who has a VAT exemption

Glass fused light

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Yes OP vat has to be paid on the transaction. When a vat registered person sells anything(that is vat rated) he has to charge vat on the transaction. It is really immaterial to the seller or buyer the market value is the market value of the product. Where it comes into play is if the buyer is vat registered then he can claim the vat back off this tractor.

There is an anomoly in the system of second hand tractors if vat was reclaimed on a tractor when purchassed first day then it can be reclaimed again. However if vat was not claimed by a non registered farmers then it cannot be reclaimed. This gives farmers that are not vat reghistered a bit if an advantage as it is immaterial what tractor they look at. However for registered farmers/contractots buying second had they are looking for atractor taht there is vat on to reclaim.

the vat is on the value of the item being sold, and has to be charged if the seller is vat registerd. That buyer is vat registered it or not will not matter the market value is the cash the seller can keep plus the vat due to the revenue.

If its imported and the buyer has a vat number the export rate is zero, but they have to charge vat on the resale.
If the contractor had bought it from an Irish seller the vat would have been split out from the cost of the machine, and reclaimed against the next vat return, and the sale price would include the vat which has to be paid over to revenue.
The sale value would normaly be less so the resale vat would be calculated on the reduced amount.

It is possible for some items bought in the uk by an Irish buyer to be charged uk vat. If the contract for the tractor was made in the uk without the vat number the seller would have charged uk vat. But the Irish buyer could reclaim the uk vat from the uk revenue as it was exported.

If the farmer buyer is not vat registered the vat would not be reclaimed on purcahse and on resale the farmer would not charge vat.

In theory in this the farmer would be as well off as the registered seller purchase price and sale price being the same would result in the farmer recovering and keeping the same amount of vat
Purchase - Sale 246e-123e or (200+46vat) - (100+23vat)

lakill Farm wrote: »

2 options

sell back to NI/Uk where the buyer has a valid VAT number

or

Sell to someone in Ireland who has a VAT exemption

The contractor is vat registered and has to charge vat on the sale if it's an export the rate is zero if Irish its 23%.
From memory if the buyer is vat exempt the seller still charges vat but the buyer can't reclaim the input vat.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/guide/registration.html#section4 and from this is looks as if a mode of transport should be registered:

It should be noted that exempt persons and non-taxable entities acquiring new means of transport or excisable goods must register for VAT irrespective of the value. Registration by exempt and non-taxable persons for receipt of intra-Community acquisitions does not give VAT deduction rights (see State Procurement, Acquisitions from other EU Member States and VAT Due VAT Deductible).

Bass Reeves

Glass fused light wrote: »

the vat is on the value of the item being sold, and has to be charged if the seller is vat registerd. That buyer is vat registered it or not will not matter the market value is the cash the seller can keep plus the vat due to the revenue.

In general vat registered sellers try to sell to vat registered buyers. The issue with 2nd hand tractors is that a lot of buyers are non registered farmers. It is immaterial to them whether seller is vat registered or not. Because of this If you are Vat registered if you can find a vat registered buyer you will tend to get a better price as vat registered buyer may pay a little more as he can reclaim vat.

lakill Farm

There are persons, companies & organisations that revenue issue vat exemption on paying vat on purchases . I know of a handful within 10 mile of me.

Revenue issue the entity with a vat exempt cert

In this case the seller does not charge such an entity VAT , however must state the VAT exempt cert number on the invoice

Glass fused light wrote: »

the vat is on the value of the item being sold, and has to be charged if the seller is vat registerd. That buyer is vat registered it or not will not matter the market value is the cash the seller can keep plus the vat due to the revenue.

If its imported and the buyer has a vat number the export rate is zero, but they have to charge vat on the resale.
If the contractor had bought it from an Irish seller the vat would have been split out from the cost of the machine, and reclaimed against the next vat return, and the sale price would include the vat which has to be paid over to revenue.
The sale value would normaly be less so the resale vat would be calculated on the reduced amount.

It is possible for some items bought in the uk by an Irish buyer to be charged uk vat. If the contract for the tractor was made in the uk without the vat number the seller would have charged uk vat. But the Irish buyer could reclaim the uk vat from the uk revenue as it was exported.

If the farmer buyer is not vat registered the vat would not be reclaimed on purcahse and on resale the farmer would not charge vat.

In theory in this the farmer would be as well off as the registered seller purchase price and sale price being the same would result in the farmer recovering and keeping the same amount of vat
Purchase - Sale 246e-123e or (200+46vat) - (100+23vat)



The contractor is vat registered and has to charge vat on the sale if it's an export the rate is zero if Irish its 23%.
From memory if the buyer is vat exempt the seller still charges vat but the buyer can't reclaim the input vat.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/guide/registration.html#section4 and from this is looks as if a mode of transport should be registered:

topaha

Hi all,

Rather than start a new thread i'd thought i'd resurrect an old one with a similar theme. I've followed most of this thread so far but there's one instance i don't see covered in relation to VAT payable (and where).

I'm not registered for VAT. What if i'm to buy a tractor from a private (non VAT registered) seller in the UK? Would revenue or hmrc try to apply VAT somewhere there?

I can't remember the source but i'm under the impression that a VAT receipt has to be shown to NCT before an imported tractor can be cleared for ROI reg plates.

Bass Reeves

topaha wrote: »

Hi all,

Rather than start a new thread i'd thought i'd resurrect an old one with a similar theme. I've followed most of this thread so far but there's one instance i don't see covered in relation to VAT payable (and where).

I'm not registered for VAT. What if i'm to buy a tractor from a private (non VAT registered) seller in the UK? Would revenue or hmrc try to apply VAT somewhere there?

I can't remember the source but i'm under the impression that a VAT receipt has to be shown to NCT before an imported tractor can be cleared for ROI reg plates.

First very few farmer's in the are not VAT registered. But if UK owner has not claimed vat back there should be no issue. I have never imported a tractor but I imagine there is a way to verify the vat situation. I do know if you bought a tractor with out paying the vat the tax authority here can verify that

Bass Reeves

topaha wrote: »

Hi all,

Rather than start a new thread i'd thought i'd resurrect an old one with a similar theme. I've followed most of this thread so far but there's one instance i don't see covered in relation to VAT payable (and where).

I'm not registered for VAT. What if i'm to buy a tractor from a private (non VAT registered) seller in the UK? Would revenue or hmrc try to apply VAT somewhere there?

I can't remember the source but i'm under the impression that a VAT receipt has to be shown to NCT before an imported tractor can be cleared for ROI reg plates.

First very few farmer's in the are not VAT registered. But if UK owner has not claimed vat back there should be no issue. I have never imported a tractor but I imagine there is a way to verify the vat situation. I do know if you bought a tractor with out paying the vat the tax authority here can verify that

lakill Farm

As far as I’m aware NCT look for proof of purchase and proof when it entered the country. So an invoice or receipt from the seller to you is fine. No vat is also ok once seller is not vat reg.

Proof of entering the country could be a simple line on receipt “delivered on xx may 2019”. Or invoice off a haulage company who state the date they transported the machine. Maybe a sailing number also

topaha wrote: »

Hi all,

Rather than start a new thread i'd thought i'd resurrect an old one with a similar theme. I've followed most of this thread so far but there's one instance i don't see covered in relation to VAT payable (and where).

I'm not registered for VAT. What if i'm to buy a tractor from a private (non VAT registered) seller in the UK? Would revenue or hmrc try to apply VAT somewhere there?

I can't remember the source but i'm under the impression that a VAT receipt has to be shown to NCT before an imported tractor can be cleared for ROI reg plates.

slivebloom

Hi Guys.

Just jumping on this thread to get my confusion cleared up.

I'm not VAT registered and I want to buy a second tractor from a garage in the North or UK or Europe (E.g. Germany).

Germany VAT is 19%, UK/North is 20%, and IRE 23%.

What VAT do I have to pay from each country. If I buy from North and don't pay VAT to the garage when I'm paying VRT here will I have to pay 23% or 20%. OR if I pay VAT to the garage at 20% will I have to pay 3% when VRT-ing the Tractor....

Same questions for Germany and Mainland UK.

Thanks

148multi

As I understand it, if you buy in the EU you only pay vat where the tractor is sold, in the UK you now pay vat and prove you exported it to reclaim the UK vat, but you must pay irish vat too.

Not sure about customs charges.

If imported into NI legally (vat paid and proper paper work) or in the north before brexit, then pay vat in the north, that's my understanding.

Purchase in Germany 19%,

Purchase in UK 20%,

Payments to irish revenue 23%.

cbb1982

Just wondering if anyone can help

Imported a 2018 NH tractor from UK in 2020

No VAT paid as import but VAT details given to UK dealer

Im now looking to trade Irish dealer said he won’t take a trade in as no VAT docket sell privately come back to us & buy new one

Its a 200hp tractor don’t know if I’d sell it privately

Is this correct - Accountant to come back to me!

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244184#Comment_120244184

You supply the vat invoice the same as issuing any other invoice. Nothing to it only you will have to pay revenue their cut of the price