Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

evolving_doors

littelady wrote: »

To begin your opening statement stating if you mention 3 months hols, 22 hours work, performance related your post will be deleted to me you are glossing over the facts, they are great benefits and should be at least be allowed to be mentioned.

Now in my job in finance I started off on 29k worked hard and built up experience since the crash those coming in are starting off on 21k. It's tough luck as far as management cares and the roles are been filled.

Regarding the supervision pay, you really are in a great job and you do get well treated and the perks are there regardless if you want to forget them on boards. Just get on with it.

Member Banned.
Get with the forum rules as per any forum on boards.ie
21k is great by the way for starting off (more than I got myself back in the boom times!.. presume you didn't start off as a sub with temporary hours.
Also if it's such a great job then jump in.. the water's lovely and warm..
But g'luck anyway.

vin33

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Interesting argument. I will consider it but is it not the case we could have got this mediation and continued action? The more days we closed the better deal to get us back in.

Ask yourselves this question-if a ****ty deal emerges -can you see us reverting back to Industrial action? Not a chance.
As for comments about house repossession-does any teacher have a clue about the mortgage arrears out there? Do you really think one or 2 missed payments would cause that? The bank take no notice until you miss 3

I doubt anybody would be flippant about missing a mortgage repayment. The one time I was involved in an industrial dispute this was the main concern, especially with the younger people with bigger mortgages. ultimately we backed down and felt disillusioned with siptu. Plus the missed payment still needs to be paid. Of course you are correct about repossession.

MrJones1973

We used to live in a land obsessed with paying our mortgages I dont think thats the case anymore but to each his own. My main point is that if you are not ultimately willing to do that well then ultimately they will always corral you into profession sapping agreements. If somebody else has a workable strategy then Im all ears (honestly) but all I have seen is this ground hog day. I have tried fruitlessly at CEC to get a ban on Voluntary tutorships which in some cases are a lot of work or any voluntary work. So this is what usually happens

1. Gov announces outrageous idea/'agreement'
2. ASTI last union standing to its credit usually we stop croke park hours in the autumn
3. Gov threatens Union with redundancy which directly would only affect a couple of hundred teachers ex quota but if actually tried would create a legal quagmire as well as a robust response . Or Government uses FEMPI
4. ASTI caves with a few tweaks as gradually bit by bit Job becomes crap. Usually we do 3-5 days
5. But to be fair its still a way better gig than England whose Unions are total wimps.

I wonder if we should start doing the marshmallow Test ?! Look it up people. Most teachers would fail.

vin33

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

No, ASTI are playing for time. They want to push the dispute out to early next year where they can force the hand of the government by threatening the state exams.

ASTI reached out for a third party intervention in order to lend the climbdown credibility and to save face.

I would find this very concerning and cynical. I hope it's not a widespread opinion of teachers that threatening state exams is a good way to go. Do you really believe that the public would then support the teachers or forget it?
I honestly have no idea where this intervention will go.
I do think ASTI made strategic mistakes here. I suspect ASTI have been sidelined and that other unions (nurses?) will decide all of this. Note that agsi have recommended accepting so the gra are not as potent now.

Villain

Do people honestly think that WRC or LC will deliver what the ASTI want?

The US elections have just added more uncertainty on top of Brexit, this country is still living beyond its means and has a Homeless crisis along with a mess of a health system, do ASTI members live in a bubble of just think sod the economy and homeless etc we just want our money regardless of the consequences??

Teachers also need to remember that when they tell those who raise holidays etc that they can train to be a teacher, that any teacher can also retrain and go into the private sector and work to increase their salary!

mirrorwall14

I think this was the best move by the ASTI. The guards are reballoting. The nurses are balloting. There are rumours of discontent in pretty much every union. Take a break. Let the other unions get their **** together. And if something comes of it thats a bonus

coillsaille

vin33 wrote: »

I would find this very concerning and cynical. I hope it's not a widespread opinion of teachers that threatening state exams is a good way to go.

Just popping in and having looked around not going to stick around tonight.

Just one quick pointer regarding your post, please don't assume posters you are replying to are teachers unless they've stated that.

Peppa Pig

deiseindublin wrote: »

So you still don't know anything about the strike and reasons if you're depending on media.

* S&S money under HRA was reneged on
* Equality for LPTs is equality - no matter the conditions of service/hols.

deiseindublin wrote: »

You read one little line in the paper and that's the best you can come up with? I can only presume that paper was published yesterday, 8 November when ASTI were indeed on strike?

There were 2 different formats to the ASTI dispute.
1. S&S was withdrawn, this was not a strike, just stopped doing work that they weren't paid to do, as promised HRA money was reneged on by Government.
2. 7 x 1 day strikes, as you were good enough to point out, was in pursuit of Equal Pay for Equal Work.


Honestly, it's an absolute head wreck to have to continually explain the simplest of detail to non-teachers that think they've it all sewn up.

Perhaps you should not use strike and dispute interchangeably, they are 2 different things. On Tuesday teachers went on strike for equal pay. You told the poster they did not know the reason for the strike. You gave erroneous information about it yourself

deiseindublin

It's mainly teachers here Peppa Pig so we don't usually have to tie ourselves up in knots repeating Dispute Facts 101.

Also, if you re-read my posts that you've helpfully quoted above, I never said that the S&S was a strike? I said the poster didn't know anything about the strikes if they were depending on the media.

Peppa Pig

deiseindublin wrote: »

Also, if you re-read my posts that you've helpfully quoted above, I never said that the S&S was a strike? I said the poster didn't know anything about the strikes if they were depending on the media.

You said, quite clearly, that it was a reason for the strike, you never mentioned dispute. If you think you are right then grand. I only replied because you had a pop at a poster.

Anyway I've asked before but never got a satisfactory answer. There is a lot of complaining about CP hours and JC reform. Do they form part of the dispute/strike or is it just a bit of bitching about all the things wrong with conditions.




Tone it Down Peppa Pig, this isn't a thread for 'explaining things' to the general public, especially when they are met with derogatory put-downs. Read the charter (the part about non-teachers especially).
Member warned.
Mod

MrJones1973

The ASTi is still in dispute about JC. This has been reported practically every day for last month. The action this week was over equal pay and us not entering LR which meant we were not paid for S and s-which led to our withdrawal from it which closed schools permanently until ASTI suspended action. It is confusing but I think the newspapers have outlined all of this ad nauseum.
I dont think this thread is a place for Q and A. on this.

I think its clearly a thread for teachers-ASTI teachers and future direction of dispute. People are obviously free to ask off topic questions but I wonder why they just dont goggle basic questions?

implausible

I'm highly suspicious about the legal advice sought by the ASTI about payment for days where staff were "locked out" and why it hasn't been publicised. Was HQ told that the Govt was within its rights to cut pay?

sitstill

implausible wrote: »

I'm highly suspicious about the legal advice sought by the ASTI about payment for days where staff were "locked out" and why it hasn't been publicised. Was HQ told that the Govt was within its rights to cut pay?

I think we can pretty much assume that this is the case and so therefore they didn't publish the advice.

implausible

sitstill wrote:

I think we can pretty much assume that this is the case and so therefore they didn't publish the advice.

Then, why on earth did they not seek this advice months ago when this action was proposed? Seems v daft to me either to knowingly go ahead or to not seek the advice before proceeding.

evolving_doors

Villain wrote: »

Do people honestly think that WRC or LC will deliver what the ASTI want?

The US elections have just added more uncertainty on top of Brexit, this country is still living beyond its means and has a Homeless crisis along with a mess of a health system, do ASTI members live in a bubble of just think sod the economy and homeless etc we just want our money regardless of the consequences??

Teachers also need to remember that when they tell those who raise holidays etc that they can train to be a teacher, that any teacher can also retrain and go into the private sector and work to increase their salary!

Or you can stay and fight for what you're owed and what you were promised... or stay and stand up for your fellow worker, or maybe you believe enough in the profession that you don't just blindly accept work practices that you think will damage the profession and education. But if you want to leave teaching and seek your fortunes elsewhere then good luck with that too.

judeboy101

Re: Advice about lockout. My inkling I the advice was if schools allow teachers to teach even 3rd/6th they would get paid. There seemed to b big push from union to get bom's to open schools on wed or Thurs for some reason.I find it suspicious that end of nov was given as general timeframe to talks, just around time JC assessment is due.

oppenheimer1

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Or you can stay and fight for what you're owed and what you were promised... or stay and stand up for your fellow worker, or maybe you believe enough in the profession that you don't just blindly accept work practices that you think will damage the profession and education. But if you want to leave teaching and seek your fortunes elsewhere then good luck with that too.

What if the country can't afford your demands? What then?

Moody_mona

Lost 49 for that strike day, worth it!

judeboy101

Moody_mona wrote: »

Lost 49 for that strike day, worth it!

You lose only for the Thurs? Not Monday lockout?

Moody_mona

judeboy101 wrote: »

Moody_mona wrote: »

Lost 49 for that strike day, worth it!

You lose only for the Thurs? Not Monday lockout?

Today's pay doesn't include this week.

judeboy101

Moody_mona wrote: »

Today's pay doesn't include this week.

You sure, my paycheck runs Tues to Monday of pay week inclusive

evolving_doors

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What if the country can't afford your demands? What then?

This has been stated over and over... The money is there... It has been set aside. The TUI teachers are already getting it. CID's for 2 or 4 years has little financial implications, the subject still needs to be taught by someone. Just think of all the part time teachers splitting jobs up, for dept payroll they have to manage 2-3 teachers and their paperwork as opposed to one.
The govt. are willing to pay subs way over the odds for s&s.

Can the country afford to have an ad-hoc underemployed teaching compliment? It seems important to try and keep nurses and doctors in Ireland for people's health, but education gets the long finger. Maybe because there is an oversupply of desperate teachers it's ok to exploit them. Can that go on indefinitely without any effects to children's education?
But alas the country is broke...
10 years on, banks are back with bonuses. Michael Noonan states that the emergency is over (even though FEMPI was snuck in over the summer), fastest growing economy in Europe.

I dunno openheimer, what is your own job, I'm sure there's waste and cutbacks that could be looked at there?

Moody_mona

judeboy101 wrote: »

Moody_mona wrote: »

Today's pay doesn't include this week.

You sure, my paycheck runs Tues to Monday of pay week inclusive

I knew it was Tues - Mon, but I always thought it was of the previous week. Just checked an old payslip and it looks like you're right! Even better.

judeboy101

Moody_mona wrote: »

I knew it was Tues - Mon, but I always thought it was of the previous week. Just checked an old payslip and it looks like you're right! Even better.

I'm down 60 , if that's for two days out I'm delighted lol

km79

Always so quick to get strike pay deducted
Always so slow to ge increments sorted after freezes etc.......
Anyway didn't lose literally half as much as feared. We pay a LOT of tax don't we

Villain

Gebgbegb wrote: »

This has been stated over and over... The money is there... It has been set aside. The TUI teachers are already getting it. CID's for 2 or 4 years has little financial implications, the subject still needs to be taught by someone. Just think of all the part time teachers splitting jobs up, for dept payroll they have to manage 2-3 teachers and their paperwork as opposed to one.
The govt. are willing to pay subs way over the odds for s&s.

Can the country afford to have an ad-hoc underemployed teaching compliment? It seems important to try and keep nurses and doctors in Ireland for people's health, but education gets the long finger. Maybe because there is an oversupply of desperate teachers it's ok to exploit them. Can that go on indefinitely without any effects to children's education?
But alas the country is broke...
10 years on, banks are back with bonuses. Michael Noonan states that the emergency is over (even though FEMPI was snuck in over the summer), fastest growing economy in Europe.

I dunno openheimer, what is your own job, I'm sure there's waste and cutbacks that could be looked at there?

But the ASTI want more and want to block JC reform, the issue for education and the Gardai is that demand is greater than supply for jobs, that is not the case for nurses.

Why are so many people looking to be teachers under the current terms?

Also as I said in my previous post but you ignored it, the US elections have just added more uncertainty on top of Brexit, this country is still living beyond its means and has a Homeless crisis along with a mess of a health system, do ASTI members live in a bubble of just think sod the economy and homeless etc we just want our money regardless of the consequences??

Also regarding promises, those of us who work in the private sector know any promises on improving pay etc is based on two things, the overall performance of the organization and also personal performance review why is it that with the ASTI neither apply to teachers?

evolving_doors

Villain wrote: »

But the ASTI want more and want to block JC reform, the issue for education and the Gardai is that demand is greater than supply for jobs, that is not the case for nurses.

Why are so many people looking to be teachers under the current terms?

Also as I said in my previous post but you ignored it, the US elections have just added more uncertainty on top of Brexit, this country is still living beyond its means and has a Homeless crisis along with a mess of a health system, do ASTI members live in a bubble of just think sod the economy and homeless etc we just want our money regardless of the consequences??

Also regarding promises, those of us who work in the private sector know any promises on improving pay etc is based on two things, the overall performance of the organization and also personal performance review why is it that with the ASTI neither apply to teachers?

Ok Look if you're not going to abide by the rules of the forum and keep within it's spirit then please don't post here again. This is getting tiring and you're disrupting the forum and wasting mods time.
Mod.

judeboy101

My opt out payment was reduced by 1/14 so I'm officially opt in but I'm telling no one in management. They can sing for it if they try make me do s&s

Villain

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ok Look if you're not going to abide by the rules of the forum and keep within it's spirit then please don't post here again. This is getting tiring and you're disrupting the forum and wasting mods time.
Mod.

That was in a direct reply to your post on promises, can you explain why it isn't a valid point?

Do you think the current economic uncertainties play no part in the mindset of the Dept during negotiations?





Great I see what you did there.

Look at the bolded part In your post above + read the charter +read the previous 3 on thread warnings.

Member banned for derailing thread... yet again

Mod

MrJones1973

;)I think the whole s and s issue looks not to have properly thought out. I personally had no issue with closing schools for a few weeks in an attempt to reverse the decline in pay and conditions. I did have a problem with some teachers being paid and others not.

Once Government took us off payroll there were two approaches
1) All out strike which I would have favored
2) Bring in 3rd and 6th years . If Government said they still wouldn't pay that would reflect badly on Government

Either of these options would have led to outside arbitration within a week and we would have looked better.

Part of problem is ASTI structures-one guy or woman. Clear head. Go for it. Not 23 and a lot of them culchies at that;)