Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

acequion

I disagree with the opinions about Ed.

I think he's one of the best presidents we've had in a long while because he's very much a trade unionist and he is quite militant and willing to continue the campaign and not sell us out.

However I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes but no way has he been bought by the establishment and I can't see him becoming principal with such strong pro worker views.

He came to address my branch and he told us that the leadership take responsibility for the lock out debacle and that the reason they didn't walk out of those talks was because they felt the need to create breathing space at that particular time. They wanted to calm things down,get the schools back open and get us as a union to regroup. I'm not sure I would agree with that strategy tbh. I'd probably have preferred to get the show back on the road re our campaign, but let's not forget that loads of teachers were totally spooked at that stage and many were very vocal about it. So I think the leadership acted in good faith.You guys have to accept that the majority of teachers don't want to be out striking,in fact the majority may even want to be in the LRA! We'll know that tomorrow.

As for bringing it to CEC, I can see the democracy of that though I would have been one of the people urging for it not to go to reballot. But that motion was defeated because the feeling was that the members must be consulted.

I think regardless of who we'd have as president we'd be up against it right now. Never before has a Govt been so hostile and so bullying. That reason alone should have democratically minded citizens alarmed. So perhaps going forward we need to devise a new negotiating strategy,perhaps hire professional negotiators, I really don't know.I was trying to google earlier to see how it's done in other unions. I mean should somebody like Ed,or any president who is essentially a classroom teacher and not a hard nosed negotiator be put in the position of negotiating on behalf of the whole workforce?

A lot to ponder when the dust settles.

Bean Scoile

I'm a nervous no voter tonight.

Does anyone know, if it's accepted, do the teachers who have already opted out of s and s go on the new agreement for the €1600 odd to increase in time or do they stay as they were, €1600 per year for life?

acequion

Bean Scoile wrote: »

I'm a nervous no voter tonight.

Does anyone know, if it's accepted, do the teachers who have already opted out of s and s go on the new agreement for the €1600 odd to increase in time or do they stay as they were, €1600 per year for life?

No we previous opt outs will get to stay as we were.

Fingers tightly crossed for the No.

2011abc

You can also opt back IN if you have over ten years left .If you're pension minded ( and you should be !) opting out will cost you the guts of a grand a year in your pension for life .

Anyway please God we vote no .

feardeas

deiseindublin wrote:

Not getting the result you want doesn't mean that everybody else will be ready to jump up and down.

The leadership must have a plan and the answers. I mean they have known about their recommendation for two months. We have been in a wilderness of ambiguity too long, tomorrow may afford them the opportunity to shine a light.

Surely they have the answers. I'm not a bad nasty reporter, I'm a paid up member of the union and am merely looking for answers.

At the very least there must be clarity by the mid term. I think it's only reasonable.

They sorely don't want to be like the brexiteers, getting the result they craved and having no idea what to do.

Bean Scoile

2011abc wrote: »

You can also opt back IN if you have over ten years left .If you're pension minded ( and you should be !) opting out will cost you the guts of a grand a year in your pension for life .

Anyway please God we vote no .

I'm happy enough to stay out. The extra years I will live will make up for the grand a year

Icsics

Bean Scoile wrote: »

I'm happy enough to stay out. The extra years I will live will make up for the grand a year

No money would pay me to do this, it's a quality of life matter!

acequion

Icsics wrote: »

No money would pay me to do this, it's a quality of life matter!

Totally agree. And no money would pay me either to be a box ticking,clipboard carrying administrator. I'm a teacher and my style is spontaneous and creative without ever having to be looking over my shoulder,or fearfully covering my tracks.

Please god for a No.

political analyst

Does the directive against in-service and assessment for the new Junior Cert remain in place even if the membership accepts LRA?

My former Leaving Cert History teacher said that he has difficulty in teaching the new JC Business syllabus because the directive bans him from attending in-service and so he's voting Yes.

The fact of the matter is that the most significant of the ASTI's concerns about the new Junior Cert were addressed by the Department and so the ASTI should stop its obstructionist course of action.

km79

political analyst wrote: »

Does the directive against in-service and assessment for the new Junior Cert remain in place even if the membership accepts LRA?

My former Leaving Cert History teacher said that he has difficulty in teaching the new JC Business syllabus because the directive bans him from attending in-service and so he's voting Yes.

The fact of the matter is that the most significant of the ASTI's concerns about the new Junior Cert were addressed by the Department and so the ASTI should stop its obstructionist course of action.

If we accept LRA we accept the JC proposals

SligoBrewer

political analyst wrote: »

Does the directive against in-service and assessment for the new Junior Cert remain in place even if the membership accepts LRA?

My former Leaving Cert History teacher said that he has difficulty in teaching the new JC Business syllabus because the directive bans him from attending in-service and so he's voting Yes.

The fact of the matter is that the most significant of the ASTI's concerns about the new Junior Cert were addressed by the Department and so the ASTI should stop its obstructionist course of action.

If this is accepted tomorrow, there is no further consultation with teachers over Junior Cycle. We have no way to air grievances or make suggestions. Every single one of us are on board, no matter what, in every single assessment for every single subject. Even if we haven't seen it yet.

I hope you all didn't accept this bullying.

CWF

The nerves :O

Chancer3001

Best of luck everyone.

No no no no no no no

judeboy101

SligoBrewer wrote: »

If this is accepted tomorrow, there is no further consultation with teachers over Junior Cycle. We have no way to air grievances or make suggestions. Every single one of us are on board, no matter what, in every single assessment for every single subject. Even if we haven't seen it yet.

I hope you all didn't accept this bullying.

"were on the one road, were on the one road, were on the road to god knows where....."

Pursefan

It really is a defining moment for us as teachers, for the ASTI and trade unions in general in this country. A strong ASTI teacher once told me that the biggest problem we faced in our battles over the years was that the Dept was playing chess while the ASTI was playing tiddlywinks. Hopefully enough of us have the long game in view. I think it will be close. But hopefully a NO!

Inspector Coptoor

political analyst wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that the most significant of the ASTI's concerns about the new Junior Cert were addressed by the Department and so the ASTI should stop its obstructionist course of action.

Most significant??

What about only having common levels for subjects other than English, Irish and Maths?

What about science instruction down from 240 hours to 200 hours, even though we are "striving towards a STEM knowledge based economy?

What about removing most of bookkeeping from Business Studies? How will students manage to take on LC Accounting?

You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

You may be a "political analyst" but you are not an educational one.

political analyst

SligoBrewer wrote: »

If this is accepted tomorrow, there is no further consultation with teachers over Junior Cycle. We have no way to air grievances or make suggestions. Every single one of us are on board, no matter what, in every single assessment for every single subject. Even if we haven't seen it yet.

I hope you all didn't accept this bullying.

The new Junior Cert is externally-assessed. The school-based assessment is separate from the new Junior Cert and thus won't be part of State exam results. If the Department went back on that, then it would be in breach of LRA and, if that happens, the ASTI and the TUI can ballot their members for withdrawal from LRA.

political analyst

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Most significant??

What about only having common levels for subjects other than English, Irish and Maths?

What about science instruction down from 240 hours to 200 hours, even though we are "striving towards a STEM knowledge based economy?

What about removing most of bookkeeping from Business Studies? How will students manage to take on LC Accounting?

You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

You may be a "political analyst" but you are not an educational one.

The present Junior Cert exams were designed not as preparation for the Leaving Cert but for an era when most students left secondary education after they did the Junior Cert. Now, most students do the Leaving Cert - thus making the present Junior Cert redundant.

As for bookkeeping and accounting, if you like the subject you'll do well in it.

Inspector Coptoor

political analyst wrote: »

The present Junior Cert exams were designed not as preparation for the Leaving Cert but for an era when most students left secondary education after they did the Junior Cert. Now, most students do the Leaving Cert - thus making the present Junior Cert redundant.

As for bookkeeping and accounting, if you like the subject you'll do well in it.

Both answers are a cop out.

The numbers doing a proper Leaving Cert have been that high for years.

deiseindublin

What time of day was official announcement last time round?

km79

deiseindublin wrote: »

What time of day was official announcement last time round?

4/5 pm

Icsics

The waiting is a killer...anybody any indications...??

SligoBrewer

km79 wrote: »

4/5 pm

We got the announcement during school time.

km79

SligoBrewer wrote: »

We got the announcement during school time.

With croke park hours that was school time

picturehangup

There's a perfect storm brewing right here where I am, just now!

Mekekka

picturehangup wrote: »

There's a perfect storm brewing right here where I am, just now!

?

picturehangup

Quite a lot of heated discussion in our SR. Seems most of ours have voted yes.. and NOW questioning their decision. All in sympathy with the blustery conditions outside!

feardeas

picturehangup wrote: »

Quite a lot of heated discussion in our SR. Seems most of ours have voted yes.. and NOW questioning their decision. All in sympathy with the blustery conditions outside!

I'd say by the looks of it in our place over 90% voted yes, I'm uping it from last week. First time I've ever heard people asking about a result. Nobody is regretting voting to accept at the beginning but maybe we're just a docile bunch of people.

Not long to go now I'd imagine.

Icsics

Result within half an hr...according to HO

Chilli Con Kearney

political analyst wrote: »

The present Junior Cert exams were designed not as preparation for the Leaving Cert but for an era when most students left secondary education after they did the Junior Cert. Now, most students do the Leaving Cert - thus making the present Junior Cert redundant.

As for bookkeeping and accounting, if you like the subject you'll do well in it.

Welcome back Political Analyst. Good to see you're game for another round of pseudo-discussion on education policies that you know very little about. I had a feeling you'd be ready to go today. It must get very boring.

I'm laughing to myself here as you say the JC is redundant. You're dead right it is. The jokeshop version we are going to have, I mean. The best thing it had going for itself was that it was a dry run for the LC. A good practice effort. Now it won't be taken seriously by students or parents. We will have students going into their first serious state exams without having done one before.

But sure you're probably in favour of watering down that too. Crayola and paint for all the snowflakes' exams.

Welcome back man.