Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

MrJones1973

I would leave Union jumping to the various Headquarters and rules OF ICTU. I mentioned already Asti announced membership up in dual union schools. These people were non union but joined ASTI. Thats my assumption

The thread title ( Posters, I am its father) is what now for the ASTI-So what now?

Btw Im rejoining the Union.

feardeas

Mrwhite1970 wrote:

The thread title ( Posters I am its father) is what now for the ASTI-So what now?)

Pray tell

joebloggs32

feardeas wrote: »

Unfortunately it seems many have to back away. Can't argue with majority. We'll only vex them. Positively Trumpish

I wouldn't be comfortable with union jumping during a dispute. Would have no objection though when it is over. If some in TUI feel the Asti represents their outlook then fine, join up, and vice versa.

clunked

feardeas wrote: »

Unfortunately it seems many have to back away. Can't argue with majority. We'll only vex them. Positively Trumpish

Only Trump never won a majority of the votes. No in a majority here albeit a small one. A good call by the Minister would be to make a small concession to get the deal over the line but I suspect his mandarins are too stubborn and ignorant to do so.

Villain

Calling someone a scab because they decide to leave a union over a policy they don't agree with is just ignorance.

You don't know anyones personal circumstances so you should not judge anyone, would you like to see people suffer hardship due to financial loss just to remain in a union they don't agree with?

I know the majority here including Mods are in support of the ASTI facing down the agreements on offer but allowing people to be called scabs is pretty low, even for boards.

MrJones1973

Here is -what now for Asti. Redundancies are main battle ground. If bruton moved on that it has implications for all public sector. All. A case would have to be taken on discrimination grounds. Such a case could take a year. What happens to members made redundant ?
To my mind Asti should call an all out in such a scenario but we must thread carefully. Lots of people would love to see teachers signing on.
If all out is not a runner then continuous one day strikes must be called
The government has reduced no majority down by 28%. It knows another ballot would pass.
It was aided in that reduction by union incompetence. ASTi must box clever

chinacrisis

So I take it you're not concerned for your students' futures? I'd consider a new career if I were you.

MrJones1973

chinacrisis wrote: »

So I take it you're not concerned for your students' futures? I'd consider a new career if I were you.

Annoymous poster tells us or me to get a new career . Muppet. It's because we are concerned about dumbing down of curriculum that we oppose the new JC. We don't want two pay scales. We believe in worker solidarity. Not rampant dog eat dog.
For years government has been trying to make JC less important and now it's trolls come out to talk about students future's being affected by it.?
You should ask for a refund of your own education. It was a waste .


No name calling or speculating as to the authenticity of the poster please. Report post to the mods if you have doubts, otherwise stick to the topic and don't distract from the thread flow. Ta.
MOD

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Annoymous poster tells us or me to get a new career . Muppet. It's because we are concerned about dumbing down of curriculum that we oppose the new JC. We don't want two pay scales. We believe in worker solidarity. Not rampant dog eat dog.
For years government has been trying to make JC less important and now it's trolls come out to talk about students future's being affected by it.?
You should ask for a refund of your own education. It was a waste .

Don't feed him



Read the charter judeboy101
Ta
Mod

chinacrisis

Read back through the posts. I objected to the comparison between ASTI members and persecuted ethnic minorities in history! Another poster then mocked me: "More likely a 'father trendy' type who worries for the future of his unique little snowflakes. We all have one in our school, "oh captain, my captain" types." What a bizarre and frightening comment from what I assume is a teacher.
I haven't commented on the ASTI's stance/strike at all......but I'm a muppet right?

happywithlife

chinacrisis wrote: »

Can you provide anything other than childish comments?

T'is rare I look up a poster's profile. This one joined today and has only posted here and IMO to troll. Just ignore and better yet report

judeboy101

happywithlife wrote: »

T'is rare I look up a poster's profile. This one joined today and has only posted here and IMO to troll. Just ignore and better yet report

2/1 its brutal bruton?

happywithlife

judeboy101 wrote: »

2/1 its brutal bruton?

Well he was was certainly brutal this morning on the radio - think it was Newstalk I caught him on. I channel surf a lot so not sure.
Anyway all he kept referring to was pay & conditions ....would love to have been able to counter attack there and then with him and ask why then teachers rejected a buy out? Voted against the paltry sum on offer. Voted essentially to remain unpaid for S&S *for now *...we rejected immediate pay increases because we know there is far more (important) issues at stake here. Wish we could get that message out loud and clear to Joe public

MrJones1973

chinacrisis wrote: »

Read back through the posts. I objected to the comparison between ASTI members and persecuted ethnic minorities in history! Another poster then mocked me: "More likely a 'father trendy' type who worries for the future of his unique little snowflakes. We all have one in our school, "oh captain, my captain" types." What a bizarre and frightening comment from what I assume is a teacher.
I haven't commented on the ASTI's stance/strike at all......but I'm a muppet right?

Telling people to change career and pity the children blah blah blah
Simplistic drivel . A blue shirt or a toe rag indo journalist

franktennis

If one has received a CID after 2 years is it still valid or is it from now on 2 year CID's don't count ? ðŸ˜.

Also could they really make teachers redundant even if they have CID's ?

evolving_doors

chinacrisis wrote: »

Read back through the posts. I objected to the comparison between ASTI members and persecuted ethnic minorities in history! Another poster then mocked me: "More likely a 'father trendy' type who worries for the future of his unique little snowflakes. We all have one in our school, "oh captain, my captain" types." What a bizarre and frightening comment from what I assume is a teacher.
I haven't commented on the ASTI's stance/strike at all......but I'm a muppet right?

Chinacrisis: Please keep in mind the purpose of sticking to a topic/thread title, just report stuff you're not happy with rather than engaging in tit-for-tat.
Thanks
MOd

For regular posters you should know the drill by now.

• On-thread spats are usually deleted anyway.
• No using the troll accusation.
• No calling folk scabs/blacklegs etc....
• Keep to the charter.
• New posters are welcome but expected to abide by the charter/on-thread warnings.
• Please try and make new contributors welcome and give them some breathing room, we were all new once.

Cards have been given out.
Thanks

joebloggs32

franktennis wrote: »

If one has received a CID after 2 years is it still valid or is it from now on 2 year CID's don't count ? ðŸ˜.

Also could they really make teachers redundant even if they have CID's ?

Those awarded the CID have them to keep. It is those due
to get them this year won't.

A CID would not save someone from redundancy. If your school is deemed over quota, or amalgamating then the govt have said you wont be offered redeployment

PureClareGold

For any English teachers out there we're an ASTI school but contacted JCT and had an in school visit. Gave us some idea as to what we should be doing. Know of others who have done likewise.

acequion

PureClareGold wrote: »

For any English teachers out there we're an ASTI school but contacted JCT and had an in school visit. Gave us some idea as to what we should be doing. Know of others who have done likewise.

I would see that as going against the union directive. I mean why would you need to bring them in? Any teacher with even a few years experience would have no trouble with a new course. It's still your subject at the end of the day. I really am uncomfortable with the "what we should be doing"part. You should be teaching,simple as.

PureClareGold

acequion wrote: »

I would see that as going against the union directive. I mean why would you need to bring them in? Any teacher with even a few years experience would have no trouble with a new course. It's still your subject at the end of the day. I really am uncomfortable with the "what we should be doing"part. You should be teaching,simple as.

There are a number of areas where we were not clear on what we should be doing. Can't understand why union wouldn't let us attend inservice. We still have to teach the course. We took it upon ourselves to get the info for the sake of the students in our classes. Have in school assessment done and were ready to go if a yes vote. Feel isolated being guinea pigs for new course with no training. Every teacher is entitled to that when new courses are being introduced.

SligoBrewer

This post on VFT is what it is all about.

Dear readers of VFT.
The results of the ASTI ballot have prompted me to write this message. I am an LPT, qualified a few years, spent some of that time teaching abroad, came home last year and subbed before finally landing my own hours this year in an ETB (TUI) school.
Over the past few years, I have seen the disgrace that is the diminishing of standards in our education system. As a teacher of science, I beg you to keep up the fight. The new junior cycle in my subject is a shambles, The condensing of the syllabus into approximately 40 learning outcomes is unworkable before you consider the cut in teaching hours from 240 to 200 over 3 years. There is insufficient time to develop an in depth understanding of key concepts. Myself and my fellow science teachers have discussed how on earth we will manage to teach the full course we are already behind.
Regarding continuous assessment it is going to be cut to just a measly 10% from a current value of 25%. Experiments are no longer mandatory which has the potential to allow for further cuts to lab equipment and resources. Furthermore there is going to be 1 common exam paper for all students. This does not challenge the most able students in our classes nor support the weakest. Indeed the government seems content for our students to be just “average” and not strive to be the best while failing to support our weakest students in need of additional supports due to cuts in learning support provision.
With regards to pay and conditions, you could say that I work every Friday for free when compared to the pay scale of my fellow longer employed colleagues. You could also think of it as working a year for free every 4 or 5 years. I did not get a say in the pay scale cut. I was midway through my teaching degree when this was imposed.
My workload is immense at present. I am in my first year pro-rata with a good chance of getting a second year. I am too scared to say no to anything managment requests from extracurriculars,to workshops that I have done before between Ireland and abroad, getting involved in random committees all to catch the carrot of a CID that is being dangled in front of me.That with ensuring that I provide my students with a high standard of teaching in the classroom, I have found myself waking up in the night and not sleeping due to the pressure of it all.
Today I am delighted that the ASTI ballot was a no but I am disappointed at how narrow the margin of victory is. I beg all teachers new and old to think carefully about the decisions you make. Don’t vote yes just to get an opt out of S&S or a CID after 2 years. Certainly some of the ideas proposed for the Junior Cycle are good in principle particularly regarding well-being. However I think the government needs to take a good look at the idea of teacher well-being also.
To those teachers who voted to accept today, I urge you to look beyond your own needs and look at the bigger picture. I would gladly love to be given the opportunity to opt out of S&S but can’t (further inequality again). As far as I am concerned the TUI have failed their members regarding pay and junior cycle. The ASTI have not as of yet. I wish I could change union but unfortunately can’t.
Please keep the fight going. Don’t let these ballots be a rerun of the Lisbon Treaty. No means No. Should we all agree to keep voting until we give Minister Bruton the answer he wants?

Look, the real people who's court the ball is in are the TUI and the INTO. If either one of them jump into bed with either the Government or us, it is game over. I would hope that workers would stand with workers and not jump on the bandwagons of other campaigns once it is evident that they have public support.

acequion

PureClareGold wrote: »

There are a number of areas where we were not clear on what we should be doing. Can't understand why union wouldn't let us attend inservice. We still have to teach the course. We took it upon ourselves to get the info for the sake of the students in our classes. Have in school assessment done and were ready to go if a yes vote. Feel isolated being guinea pigs for new course with no training. Every teacher is entitled to that when new courses are being introduced.

I'm sorry but I really don't agree and it very much sounds like you have defied the directive.Assessment is one of the main issues that we are in dispute about yet in your school you did this assessment and as you say,were ready to go if Yes. But it wasn't Yes and our union is still disputing that new junior cycle.

I still maintain that you should be well able to figure out what you should be doing. Or did you want to know more about the use of "outcomes." Outcomes based education which has been a dismal failure in England and which we are desperately trying to stave off here. For the sake of the students in all our classes.

To me that is far more important than what an uncaring Govt, only interested in saving money decides you "should be doing."

Mekekka

As someone, while not new to being a union member, is relatively new to being involved in my local branch, I'd like to put in my two cents worth about some of the comments on here...
I've seen a few posters quite against the current ASTI head people and all I can say to that is what do people genuinely expect? Some of these people are in the job for a relatively short time, should have plenty knowledge about school and its intricacies but chances are are not overly used to addressing the media and are highly unlikely to have been in such negotiation situations before - is it not a bit much to expect these people to do a word perfect job in relation to those things? I feel they have done they best they could so far and hope what they have gone through already will stand to them in the near future and also be lessons for those who will take up the positions next.
Leading on from that, there has been a lot talk here and in schools and branches about a 'plan'... Again, these people are dealing with unknown situations and every industrial dispute has had new people on both sides of the equation - what may have worked before might not work with this minister etc and its worth trying everything we can to see where the weakness is with the government. There is no ideal formula and while what happened in November frustrated a lot of people, union leaders could not possibly have known how exactly it was going to pan out, no one could have, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth trying - it did make an impact. They hopefully have learned from what didn't go our way and will go from there now.
The negotiations were a disaster in terms of what we were offered. Again. At our branch meeting our rep did point out that the dept never had any interest in actually negotiating., everything they did during these 'negotiations' was designed to undermine the ASTI and get their own way. She said that if our reps had walked out as soon as they realised it was futile then the dept would have paraded the union as the baddies, the ones who weren't trying to solve the situation, even though the dept themselves weren't trying to sort anything either! But try telling that to the media who seem way more interested in vilifying our profession than telling it properly from our point of view.
Things haven't gone perfectly to now, teachers are worried about their own personal circumstances (I'm not a LPT and should be applying for cid this year but won't be now as things stand but feel that is a small price to pay for standing by the bigger picture) and this vote result shows that but at least we are still sticking to the fight and I remain hopeful that we will make progress as a union. I can't be anything but positive and hopeful as what point is there otherwise?

Bean Scoile

Now that the Asti have rejected the offer, can tui teachers with 15 years service take up the offer of withdrawing from s and s?

judeboy101

Bean Scoile wrote: »

Now that the Asti have rejected the offer, can tui teachers with 15 years service take up the offer of withdrawing from s and s?

very good question

judeboy101

PureClareGold wrote: »

There are a number of areas where we were not clear on what we should be doing. Can't understand why union wouldn't let us attend inservice. We still have to teach the course. We took it upon ourselves to get the info for the sake of the students in our classes. Have in school assessment done and were ready to go if a yes vote. Feel isolated being guinea pigs for new course with no training. Every teacher is entitled to that when new courses are being introduced.

dude, if you've done the assessment you've kinda broken the union directive. Ready to go for what yes vote?

evolving_doors

SligoBrewer wrote: »

This post on VFT is what it is all about.



Look, the real people who's court the ball is in are the TUI and the INTO. If either one of them jump into bed with either the Government or us, it is game over. I would hope that workers would stand with workers and not jump on the bandwagons of other campaigns once it is evident that they have public support.

It's interesting to contrast that with a comment I heard on the radio from the NBRU. I can't remember the exact quote but he said that ALL members would have no hesitation in uniting if another section's wages came under attack, whether it be in Rail, Expressway, Dublin Bus, regional bus etc.

Furthermore NBRU, SIPTU, UNITE, TSSA, TEEU issued a joint statement to condemn the attacks.

Meanwhile in the land of education it's divide and conquer.

PureClareGold

acequion wrote: »

I'm sorry but I really don't agree and it very much sounds like you have defied the directive.Assessment is one of the main issues that we are in dispute about yet in your school you did this assessment and as you say,were ready to go if Yes. But it wasn't Yes and our union is still disputing that new junior cycle.

I still maintain that you should be well able to figure out what you should be doing. Or did you want to know more about the use of "outcomes." Outcomes based education which has been a dismal failure in England and which we are desperately trying to stave off here. For the sake of the students in all our classes.

To me that is far more important than what an uncaring Govt, only interested in saving money decides you "should be doing."

Lots of schools I know of breaking the directive. Mentioned in an earlier post as well. That's the reality. When you actually get beyond the bluff and bluster there's a lot of merit on the course.

PureClareGold

judeboy101 wrote: »

dude, if you've done the assessment you've kinda broken the union directive. Ready to go for what yes vote?

We were prepared. Lots of schools have them done but called something else. There's great learning experiences in the oral presentation. Students loved it and learned loads from it. One of the most positive experiences in my classroom ever

judeboy101

PureClareGold wrote: »

We were prepared. Lots of schools have them done but called something else. There's great learning experiences in the oral presentation. Students loved it and learned loads from it. One of the most positive experiences in my classroom ever

I find myself having to agree with you, I too have had many great oral experiences.