Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

joebloggs32

Millem wrote: »

I am in a dual union school, a lot of asti members were talking about leaving the union.
We were told on Friday it's avcs and income protection. Never thought about car insurance etc.
Some asti members rang up Cornmarket who said they could restart them but I don't know how if the can't join Tui! The rate you pay for salary protection is brokered by the union. Tui pay a little less than asti whereas my husband who works in a university would less than me! I presume avcs work the same way different rates of commission for different unions.

Also if you have previous sick leave I don't know how that would work. I got in on a "no questions asked promo for under 40's" a few years ago. As did my friend who is a diabetic. I priced salary protection years ago and some wouldn't even give a quote to teachers as apparently they are in the high risk category.

Tui rep in my school is adamant they can not join Tui now, although some asti think the will just join anyway and by pass rep.
They had to of left asti before a certain date during the summer to be able to join Tui. Things got a little heated tbh

The TUI rep is right. You can't simply resign now during a dispute and move. Don't take it out on him. The problem is you hear anecdotal stories of people moving. These are probably where people have failed to declare their previous union membership.

The car insurance is issued by Cornmarket based on your union membership at a discount. If you resign it could be revoked. I would contact Cornmarket on this because we all know what insurance companies are like.

joebloggs32

acequion wrote: »

I have been thinking about this one and I would say that yes they can.

This offer came as a result of the Novemebr TCC talks at which INTO and TUI were also in attendance. The proviso to this offer being that the union be a signatory to the LRA.

So does that not clearly mean that the other teacher unions can now avail of it?

I believe your correct. The TUI news out this week had I formation about it.

r93kaey5p2izun

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Unless the rep misses a TUI branch meeting they won't get in. All new members names come before the branch before they are accepted. We have postponed acceptance of members before when there was no one to confirm them

Funnily enough we have TUI members wanting to go to ASTI but can't either

Same story here - new members are not accepted by the branch unless they can be vouched for by a colleague (ideally the rep) and people have been rejected because they had just left ASTI during the dispute.

PureClareGold

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

None - it's all fantastic!!! Anyone with a bit of knowledge can see that the current and its replacement are miles apart but people like PureClareGold who it appears to me seems to have a chip on his/her shoulder for anyone that doesn't agree with him/her.

Actually I do have a few. Feel some of the learning outcomes are too wordy. Forgot for students to grasp. We worked through them and clarified what we felt they were asking us to do but this took some time.
Feel the CBAs should count toward exam result but then teachers votes against this. Read somewhere on here that ASTI accepted the 60/40 split initially but don't know if that is the case or not.
Every change is difficult and will always have it's teething problems. I'm a solution focused individual with a growth mindset so I'm prepared to give it a go and reflect after to see what I can do better.
But hey that's just me!!

acequion

You can't argue with posters like PureClareGold. The arrogance,patronising attitude, dismissal of counter arguments,up on high horse remarks like "I'm a solution focused individual with a growth mindset" are all proof of that. In fact that remark is comical,imagine sitting around with your colleagues and saying something like that!

And unfortunately this is the type of attitude that we are up against when we appeal for reason and meaningful reform of the JC. This type have completely flung out the baby with the bathwater and it's all black and white with them. The new course is the most wonderful thing around despite all the evidence of the failure of that model in England, Scotland, Australia,South Africa to name but a few. And the old course is from the stone age and so are the rest of us. No meaningful debate at all. No taking the merits of old and new and meeting in the middle.

Millem

joebloggs32 wrote: »

The TUI rep is right. You can't simply resign now during a dispute and move. Don't take it out on him. The problem is you hear anecdotal stories of people moving. These are probably where people have failed to declare their previous union membership.

The car insurance is issued by Cornmarket based on your union membership at a discount. If you resign it could be revoked. I would contact Cornmarket on this because we all know what insurance companies are like.

Joebloggs I am in the tui not asti and always have been ! I was sticking up for the tui rep and told the asti members the can't join tui. One member turned around and said to me "who is going to stop me" I said the tui rep in the school knows you are asti. They said she (tui rep) will not stop her joining tui!!!

Some asti members have already sent in emails to asti saying they want to leave. Tbh I think it is coming down to pay in my school....not getting paid for s and s and no increments. Do non union members get the s and s money and increments?

Millem

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Unless the rep misses a TUI branch meeting they won't get in. All new members names come before the branch before they are accepted. We have postponed acceptance of members before when there was no one to confirm them

Funnily enough we have TUI members wanting to go to ASTI but can't either

I don't think our rep goes to branch meetings! Other tui staff members do though.

r93kaey5p2izun

PureClareGold wrote: »

Actually I do have a few. Feel some of the learning outcomes are too wordy. Forgot for students to grasp. We worked through them and clarified what we felt they were asking us to do but this took some time.
Feel the CBAs should count toward exam result but then teachers votes against this. Read somewhere on here that ASTI accepted the 60/40 split initially but don't know if that is the case or not.
Every change is difficult and will always have it's teething problems. I'm a solution focused individual with a growth mindset so I'm prepared to give it a go and reflect after to see what I can do better.
But hey that's just me!!

I'm not sure you're being serious here or if you're deliberately turning the buzzword jargon up to eleven, but none of this comes across in your posts. Your posts read as somebody willing to blindly accept any and all change without critical engagement or prior consideration of possible issues - someone who will follow anyone who spouts impressive terminology, and reactively cover up the damage done in hindsight, rather than a professional practitioner who considers the evidence and proactively plans for successful implementation of changes.

I'm sure you're a dedicated and professional teacher but your posts are like something out 1984. It's difficult to take them seriously. I'm interested in trying to gain perspective on the positive aspects of the new course. I don't know anyone in real life who has an overall favourable opinion of the new course on balance. There are a few regular posters here who have given some balanced favourable opinions - but they are not nearly as unfailingly enthusiastic about it as you. It just doesnt come across as credible.

PureClareGold

acequion wrote: »

You can't argue with posters like PureClareGold. The arrogance,patronising attitude, dismissal of counter arguments,up on high horse remarks like "I'm a solution focused individual with a growth mindset" are all proof of that. In fact that remark is comical,imagine sitting around with your colleagues and saying something like that!

And unfortunately this is the type of attitude that we are up against when we appeal for reason and meaningful reform of the JC. This type have completely flung out the baby with the bathwater and it's all black and white with them. The new course is the most wonderful thing around despite all the evidence of the failure of that model in England, Scotland, Australia,South Africa to name but a few. And the old course is from the stone age and so are the rest of us. No meaningful debate at all. No taking the merits of old and new and meeting in the middle.

You're complaining about my dismissal of counter arguments and yet in the next sentence you say " In fact that remark is comical,imagine sitting around with your colleagues and saying something like that!" Might use this exchange to help my students understand irony!! The new course allows me to do this as digital texts are permitted. Imagine!!

How does our model replicate exactly the ones in England, Scotland etc. How is it the same? Genuine question. I don't know the answer and would love to know. People keep throwing this out there and I presume they are experts in international education systems but whenever I try to get the answer they're not the expert I've been hoping to meet.

r93kaey5p2izun

Millem wrote: »

Do non union members get the s and s money and increments?

Only in school considered to be TUI-only by DES, so only in non-designated ETB schools - not in voluntary schools, C&C schools and designated ETB schools. My ETB school is considered mixed union but only has TUI, and non union members are treated as outside the LRA. They are the only staff members with frozen increments, 4 year CIDs and doing S&S for free. They are fully adhering to LRA but do not benefit from any aspect of it.

Millem

Kolton Teeny Hall wrote: »

Only in school considered to be TUI-only by DES, so only in non-designated ETB schools - not in voluntary schools, C&C schools and designated ETB schools. My ETB school is considered mixed union but only has TUI, and non union members are treated as outside the LRA. They are the only staff members with frozen increments, 4 year CIDs and doing S&S for free. They are fully adhering to LRA but do not benefit from any aspect of it.

We are mixed so the non union members would not be in LRA. They (asti members in question) honestly think they will be joining tui. :eek::eek: They don't realise they won't be allowed and will be non union so won't get the extra money anyway.

judeboy101

Is it me or was there very little in print and radio today about our vote? Rugby/trump/kinahans seemed to be the order of the day.

acequion

PureClareGold wrote: »

You're complaining about my dismissal of counter arguments and yet in the next sentence you say " In fact that remark is comical,imagine sitting around with your colleagues and saying something like that!" Might use this exchange to help my students understand irony!! The new course allows me to do this as digital texts are permitted. Imagine!!

How does our model replicate exactly the ones in England, Scotland etc. How is it the same? Genuine question. I don't know the answer and would love to know. People keep throwing this out there and I presume they are experts in international education systems but whenever I try to get the answer they're not the expert I've been hoping to meet.

There you go again with a patronising attitude! As other posters have said, it really is impossible to take you seriously.

However as you ask about other systems,you are surely aware that the new Junior Cycle here is closely modelled on the Scottish curriculum for excellence, which according to teachers unions in Scotland has not been a success [and I'm putting it very mildly].Where were Scotland in recent PISA ratings?

So have a read of this for starters, http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/349059/Scots-pupils-study-the-steamie-instead-of-Shakespeare

That article is one of a raft of criticisms you will find of the Scottish system through simple Googling. The Internet is awash with similar stories from other countries who have tried OBE. Why don't you have a look?

And as you are at it can you post an example of where OBE is the resounding success you claim it is,please?

r93kaey5p2izun

Millem wrote: »

We are mixed so the non union members would not be in LRA. They (asti members in question) honestly think they will be joining tui. :eek::eek: They don't realise they won't be allowed and will be non union so won't get the extra money anyway.

The non union members in my school have also been told that joining TUI now will not allow them benefit from LRA. One joined and left again as they would not pay him S&S or unfreeze his increments. Only those people who returned the declaration of TUI membership by the cut off date (around the 12th Sept I think) can receive any LRA benefits. They have received written notification from HR that they will not be dealing with any further queries on this matter and they must deal directly with the Minister. The Minister has not responded to any contact made so far. The matter has been raised in the Dail by other TDs, however.

acequion

Here's another one for you about Scotland, http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38207729

judeboy101

acequion wrote: »

There you go again with a patronising attitude! As other posters have said, it really is impossible to take you seriously.

However as you ask about other systems,you are surely aware that the new Junior Cycle here is closely modelled on the Scottish curriculum for excellence, which according to teachers unions in Scotland has not been a success [and I'm putting it very mildly].Where were Scotland in recent PISA ratings?

So have a read of this for starters, http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/349059/Scots-pupils-study-the-steamie-instead-of-Shakespeare

That article is one of a raft of criticisms you will find of the Scottish system through simple Googling. The Internet is awash with similar stories from other countries who have tried OBE. Why don't you have a look?

And as you are at it can you post an example of where OBE is the resounding success you claim it is,please?

North Korea?

PureClareGold

acequion wrote: »

There you go again with a patronising attitude! As other posters have said, it really is impossible to take you seriously.

However as you ask about other systems,you are surely aware that the new Junior Cycle here is closely modelled on the Scottish curriculum for excellence, which according to teachers unions in Scotland has not been a success [and I'm putting it very mildly].Where were Scotland in recent PISA ratings?

So have a read of this for starters, http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/349059/Scots-pupils-study-the-steamie-instead-of-Shakespeare

That article is one of a raft of criticisms you will find of the Scottish system through simple Googling. The Internet is awash with similar stories from other countries who have tried OBE. Why don't you have a look?

And as you are at it can you post an example of where OBE is the resounding success you claim it is,please?

I cant but I'm prepared to give it a try. To quote from that article "In place of classic literature such as Shakespeare or Dickens, youngsters are now being taught about The Steamie, the Eighties comedy by Rab C Nesbitt actor Tony Roper, or Gregory’s Girl." That's not the same as here. This is what I'm on about. People shouting Scotland when ours is different!!

PureClareGold

acequion wrote: »

Here's another one for you about Scotland, http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38207729

Again can't see here what exactly the similarities are with Ireland. All it is saying is Scotland's education system isn't performing well. I'll ask again as I don't know. Have we taken Scotland's English curriculum word for word and used it here or have we created our own built on research and what has worked well in some systems and adapted for here?
I'm just pointing out what I see as positives from my limited experience so far with it. Would love to have been able to access all the supports available but the union directive prevented me attending in-service on a course I must teach according to my contract.

acequion

PureClareGold wrote: »

Again can't see here what exactly the similarities are with Ireland. All it is saying is Scotland's education system isn't performing well. I'll ask again as I don't know. Have we taken Scotland's English curriculum word for word and used it here or have we created our own built on research and what has worked well in some systems and adapted for here?
I'm just pointing out what I see as positives from my limited experience so far with it. Would love to have been able to access all the supports available but the union directive prevented me attending in-service on a course I must teach according to my contract.

Please stop being so black and white. No body said we took Scotland's curriculum word for word. How could we do that? Scotland is Scotland and Ireland is Ireland. However the new Irish Junior Cycle has been modelled on the CfE in Scotland and I simply wanted to point out that the CfE has not gone well for the very reasons the critics of the JC are warning about here.Things like inadequate funding, too ideologically driven, a dumbing down of content, too much red tape and teacher overwork. So while the literature content of English in ours doesn't look too bad right now, I wouldn't be holding my breath that hugely inferior works won't get introduced in keeping with this wooly "child centred" notion.

I have never claimed that there aren't some merits to the new Junior Cycle and I'm talking overall, not just English,but it is utterly foolhardy to ignore the proven failings of very similar systems elsewhere.

feardeas

I think that the merits or otherwise of the junior cycle could be discussed in another forum. It would be an educationally worthwhile process. I'm going to limit my contribution to that.

I think there's merit and demerit. I think the specification is challenging and in ways enlightening. I think changing texts is good. There's ample choice. I mean some of the stuff on the comparative list is hardly part of the cannon.

I think the phrasing of some questions is quite harsh given the open nature of the course. I think the focus on a soliloquy is frankly daft. I also think that the ad hock nature of the sections to be examined year to year is most unfortunate. Probably research behind it. Mind you I don't think research is the be all and end all. Hattie talks about feedback being key but doesn't think that class size has a hot to do with it. I can't understand that but sin sceal eile.

As an aside I don't understand how the dept can say that only people who were in TUI last September can avail of LRA. What about new entrants in TUI schools in September 2017. Or people returning from career break or non union people who decide to join it. The Dept can't have it every way. Nor can anyone.

Powerhouse

PureClareGold wrote: »

You're complaining about my dismissal of counter arguments and yet in the next sentence you say " In fact that remark is comical,imagine sitting around with your colleagues and saying something like that!" Might use this exchange to help my students understand irony!! The new course allows me to do this as digital texts are permitted. Imagine!!

I hope sincerely that you wouldn't use this example to explain irony to anyone because the other poster was "dismissing your counter-argument". They were simply pointing to a particularly absurd example of management-speak which is in a practical sense meaningless. Many have been finding solutions to all manner of problems down the years but would still find it hard not to roll eyes at the use of such a silly cliché as being a "solution focussed" person. It is the sort of language redolent of group-think. There is no irony in someone pointing that out. In fact proclaiming irony as a first response is fairly unoriginal too.

joebloggs32

feardeas wrote: »

I think that the merits or otherwise of the junior cycle could be discussed in another forum. It would be an educationally worthwhile process. I'm going to limit my contribution to that.

I think there's merit and demerit. I think the specification is challenging and in ways enlightening. I think changing texts is good. There's ample choice. I mean some of the stuff on the comparative list is hardly part of the cannon.

I think the phrasing of some questions is quite harsh given the open nature of the course. I think the focus on a soliloquy is frankly daft. I also think that the ad hock nature of the sections to be examined year to year is most unfortunate. Probably research behind it. Mind you I don't think research is the be all and end all. Hattie talks about feedback being key but doesn't think that class size has a hot to do with it. I can't understand that but sin sceal eile.

As an aside I don't understand how the dept can say that only people who were in TUI last September can avail of LRA. What about new entrants in TUI schools in September 2017. Or people returning from career break or non union people who decide to join it. The Dept can't have it every way. Nor can anyone.

I would reckon there will be another round of form filling for TUI staff in September if the status quo remains, thus enabling new members of the TUI to benefits from the LRA.

r93kaey5p2izun

They are only refusing access to LRA to existing ETB staff, not new appointees. Non union staff who couldn't fill in the form in Sept are being excluded from LRA unless they work in a non-designated ETB school, no matter whether they agree to LRA or try to join TUI now. I don't know how they're managing those on career break.

TheDriver

Those on approved leave were informed about the forms etc few months back

Notorious

PureClareGold wrote: »

Every change is difficult and will always have it's teething problems.

I've had the new JCT whole-school in-service and there was a lot of straight forward questions which the JCT staff couldn't answer. It seems like there was a lack of foresight; I got the impression that changes were implemented but every angle hadn't been worked out. There were too many "what if" questions being posed by staff which the facilitators had no response to.

I'd agree again that everything seems very dumbed down. I've attended the Business Studies in-service and every teacher was astounded at how accounting has been practically wiped from the curriculum. The exam has moved from to papers to one. So much is being cut from the course. How can students who progress to accounting at Leaving Cert level be expected to complete a T a/c which have been completely removed from the new JC course? Suddenly the work of the Leaving Cert teacher has been doubled.

Our facilitator agreed with us that the changes seemed very negative, and went as far as disagreeing with the curriculum for the new course. Not even the JCT facilitator had bought in to the new programme.

CWF

All transition years are out for 2 weeks work experience. Is the Principal allowed to use the periods that teachers are timetabled to have transition year students, for supervision, as in s and s supervision. I rang the ASTI they said ring back at 4pm...

judeboy101

CWF wrote: »

All transition years are out for 2 weeks work experience. Is the Principal allowed to use the periods that teachers are timetabled to have transition year students, for supervision, as in s and s supervision. I rang the ASTI they said ring back at 4pm...

No. You can be asked to supervise for a college I they are checking up on those ty's but otherwise I would say big no.

CWF

judeboy101 wrote: »

No. You can be asked to supervise for a college I they are checking up on those ty's but otherwise I would say big no.

For a colleague? Yeah that's what I thought. Spoke to deputy she said she spoke to principal and that they are allowed

solerina

No. You are free if the students you are supposed to have are away, unless a teacher is with them, you are then allowed to cover for that teacher !!

CWF

solerina wrote: »

No. You are free if the students you are supposed to have are away, unless a teacher is with them, you are then allowed to cover for that teacher !!

Perfect, thanks. There is no teacher with them, all, TYs are out.